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Around SBN: FSU To Big 12 'Inevitable,' According To Report

The No-Nonsense Guide to the Big Ten Race

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[Editor's Note: Every once in a while life gives us a good reminder that there are things more important than football.  That couldn't be any more clear over the last several weeks, as we've seen Rutger's defensive tackle Eric LeGrand paralyzed from the neck down, Notre Dame student Declan Sullivan killed in a horrible accident, and now, Mississippi State defensive end Nick Bell lose his battle with cancer.  A little over a month ago these were three healthy young men with their entire lives ahead of them.  Now, they're a solemn reminder to all of us not to take anything for granted.  I hope you'll join me in expressing your support for the people and institutions affected by these tragedies, and keep Eric and the Sullivan and Bell families in your thoughts and prayers...]

Don't let the morning frost fool you.  Things are heating up in the Midwest.  We're marching into the final month of the regular season embroiled in a four-way tie at the top of the Big Ten standings.  Michigan State, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Iowa can claim at least a share of the title if they win out.  That's a bigger if for the Hawkeyes and Buckeyes -- who still have to play each other -- than the Spartans and Badgers, who have already navigated the hardest part of their schedules.  Still, just as there are few guarantees in life, conference football is flush with uncertainty.  To help you make the most of November, I've compiled a short guide to the conference race complete with the schedules -- subjectively ranked from most to least difficult -- and rooting scenarios to suit your various alligences.

About the only thing I can promise is we're in for a wild ride.  Let's start with the road each contender has to travel:

Schedules

I assigned each team in the Big Ten a number of points based on my ballot for this week's Big Ten Power Poll.  I followed the descending scale used by the AP and Coaches Polls whereby first place is worth twelve points and last place is worth one point.  I then totaled the points for the teams on each championship contender's remaining schedule, and added two extra points for each away game.  Under this system the team with the highest number of points has the most difficult schedule.  The contender's schedules are ranked below in order from most to least difficult.

1. Iowa Hawkeyes (24 points, Average Opponent Score: 6)

Don't get me wrong.  You can make a good argument that it's actually Ohio State that has the toughest road to travel.  Still, results are results, and I'm sticking with my formula and a team that will play 3 of its final 4 games on the road.  Iowa travels to Bloomington this week, and Evanston next week.  While the Hoosiers defense might not scare Ricky Stanzi, Northwestern's defensive line certainly will -- and don't forget that the Wildcats have had the Hawkeye's number as of late.  Last year Iowa was 9-0 and first in the BCS Computers when Pat Fitzgerald and Corey Wootton came to town -- leaving a trail of twisted ankles in their wake.  Iowa's reward for surviving the pink-o scare?  A visit from Ohio State.  The good news is the Hawks have home field advantage.  The bad news is that doesn't mean much to Jim Tressel who -- aside from a momentary lapse in 2004 -- has nothing but good memories in Iowa City.  Last, and well...least, Kirk Ferentz's squad will travel to Minneapolis to bully the embattled Minnesota Golden Gophers.

Path to Pasadena: Win out and root for Wisconsin to lose again.  If the Badgers fall in Ann Arbor or when Northwestern comes to town an Iowa victory over Ohio State will leave the Hawks tied with Michigan State atop the Big Ten standings.  Iowa owns the head-to-head victory over the Spartans, so they'll prevail in a two-way tiebreaker.

If Michigan State also loses, Iowa can claim the Big Ten title outright.

BCS at large hopes: If Iowa and Wisconsin win out, and Michigan State loses the Hawks will be an attractive pick for a BCS at large bid.

Projection that pisses me off: Iowa goes 4-0 down the stretch, defeating Ohio State at home.  They finish in a two-way tie at the top of the conference standings with Wisconsin, but don't go to the Rose Bowl because they lost the head-to-head matchup.  A 10-2 final record is enough to land the Hawks a BCS at large bid -- probably to face the SEC runner up in the Sugar Bowl.

Star-divide

38120_iowa_ohio_st_football_medium
If it comes down to these two it's going to be a long night for the Buckeyes.

2. Ohio State Buckeyes (22 points, Average Opponent Score: 7.3)

The Buckeyes are off this week, and the bye should help mend a mangled defense before the scarlet heads into the meat of their conference schedule.  A visit from a Penn State team that was born again against Michigan will be followed by the aforementioned clash at Kinnick with the Hawkeyes.  Finally, there's the obligatory visit from the Wolverines in the 107th edition of The Greatest Rivalry in All of Sports A Great Rivalry on Life Support.

Path to Pasadena: Same as Iowa: Win out and root for Wisconsin to lose again.  Weird, huh?  If Bucky plays sucky at Michigan or against Northwestern, Ohio State will be tied atop the Big Ten standings with Michigan State.  Because the Buckeyes and the Spartans don't play, the team with the highest BCS ranking will go to Pasadena.  That fact that Ohio State is already three spots ahead of Michigan State in the BCS standings with the toughest part of their schedule still in front of them all but ensures the scarlet will win this metric.

Alternatively, Ohio State can win out and end up in a three-way tie with Wisconsin and Michigan State.  Again, Pasadena will belong to the team with the highest BCS ranking.  Last week, it seemed possible for the Buckeyes to jump the Badgers on the strength of an out of conference win over a ranked Miami team.  After the Hurricanes' loss to Virginia -- admittedly sans Jacory Harris -- I think it's unlikely that the Bucks will muster the votes to jump the Badgers.  Still, if Wisconsin turns in lousy showings at Michigan and against Northwestern, and Ohio State dominates against Penn State, at Iowa, and versus Michigan, stranger things have happened.

BCS at large hopes: It says here that if Ohio State wins out they have an excellent chance of cherry picking an at large bid to a BCS game.  They don't call it "Buckeye Championship Series" for nothing.  No team in the country has played in as many BCS bowls as the Buckeyes, and you better believe that if a bowl committee has to choose between an 11-1 Ohio State team and an 11-1 Michigan State team Brutus is a shoe-in.  Sorry Spartans, Ohio State's national alumni base, notorious traveling reputation, and television staying power (the Buckeyes have played in one of the two highest rated bowl games for four consecutive seasons) positively eclipses your good will.

Projection that pisses me off: Ohio State goes 2-1 down the stretch, losing to Iowa on the road.  A 10-2 final record sends the scarlet to Orlando for the Capital One Bowl.

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Is that a Wisconsin fan I see celebrating?

3. Wisconsin Badgers (18 points, Average Opponent Score: 4.5)

Although there's no question that the Badgers have survived the scariest part of their schedule, their final points total shows they're not out of the woods just yet.  A trip to Purdue this week and housecall from Indiana the next is followed by games at Michigan and against Northwestern.  Although Michigan's defense currently resembles the French unit that "disintegrated into a wave of refugees" in the face of the German Wehrmacht in World War II, Bret Bielema's struggles in Ann Arbor are well documented.  Meanwhile, we're still waiting on Northwestern to pull its patented conference upset out of its ass.  Long story short?  It's still a bit early to throw the confetti in the air.

Path to Pasadena: Win out and pull for Michigan State to lose.  If this goes down, the Badgers will finish no worse than tied with Ohio State or Iowa at the top of the Big Ten standings.  They own the head-to-head win over both.

Alternatively, if Ohio State beats Iowa, Wisconsin will find itself in a three-way tie with the Buckeyes and the Spartans.  Since the later two teams don't play one another, the team ranked highest in the BCS standings goes to California.  See above for why there's a good chance that's Wisconsin.

BCS at large hopes: If Wisconsin wins out but somehow gets jumped by Ohio State in a nightmare three-way tie scenario, there's a great chance the Badgers will earn a BCS at large bid.

Projection that pisses me off: Wisconsin goes 4-0 down the stretch, splitting the conference championship with Iowa.  The Badgers go to the Rose Bowl for the first time since 1999 on the strength of their head-to-head win.

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Win it and hope.

4. Michigan State Spartans (11 points, Average Opponent Score: 3.7)

On paper, there's no question that Sparty has the most favorable schedule down the stretch.  Still, any Michigan State fan will tell you there's no counting chickens before they hatch in East Lansing -- especially after last week's sobering beat down in Iowa City.  The Spartans play Minnesota at home before resting up during a bye week.  They'll then get Purdue at home before they make a encore appearance in Happy Valley.

Path to Pasadena: Win out and pray the Buckeyes lose to Iowa.  That all but ensures a three-way tie with Wisconsin and Iowa for the tournament of Roses.  Iowa drops out because its out of conference loss at Arizona gives it a worse record than the other two contenders.  Sparty's head to head victory over Wisconsin then sends it to Pasadena.

BCS at large hopes: Win out, finish in a three-way tie at the top of the conference with Ohio State and Wisconsin (in which Bucky goes to the Rose Bowl), and pray.  Seriously.  That's it.  If Ohio State loses to Iowa the Spartans are back in a three way tie with the Hawks and the Badgers, and -- as explained above -- they go to the Rose Bowl on the strength of their head-to-head win over Wisconsin.  In other words, it's Pasadena or bust for Mark Dantonio.

Projection that pisses me off: Michigan State loses in its regular season finale at Penn State, giving it a 2-1 record down the stretch.  The 10-2 Spartans special season is soured by a sloppy-seconds bid to the Outback Bowl.

Comment 78 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Very nicely done, Graham.

Very nicely done.

Oh no, don't tell me Matt Barkley ALSO doesn't tie his shoes...
Wisconsin, throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 3, 2010 1:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Graham?

Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.

by Jonathan Franz on Nov 3, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I suspect...

….Graham is out “sick” (hung over) this morning.

by CPT Hoolie on Nov 3, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Leave it to me to post something like that at 2 in the morning

Good Lord I need to go to bed earlier than that…

Oh no, don't tell me Matt Barkley ALSO doesn't tie his shoes...
Wisconsin, throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 3, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

No...

Although I am most displeased with them. Let’s just say that the guy I voted for DID NOT WIN…

No more politics. Please.

I have B.J. Cunningham and Mark Dell on my CBS Fantasy team, as well as L. Bell and potentially Kirk Cousins. Think I should start them?

Oh no, don't tell me Matt Barkley ALSO doesn't tie his shoes...
Wisconsin, throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 3, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Against Minnesota?

Depends on who else you have, but I’d say yes.

by CPT Hoolie on Nov 3, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

You did get my e-mail, right?

Oh no, don't tell me Matt Barkley ALSO doesn't tie his shoes...
Wisconsin, throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 3, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

i am

Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.

by Graham Filler on Nov 3, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just because Penn State can score 41 points on some high school football defense from the Mitten

Does not mean a walk-on quarterback will be able to function against the rest of the Big Ten.

Also, if the Spartans don’t beat the Nittanies in Happy Valley this year, there’s a distinct possibility it never happens. Like, ever.

by cwel87 on Nov 3, 2010 6:07 AM CDT reply actions  

Good thing that FORMER walk-on won't be playing, then.

Barring something crazy happening, this is back to being Bolden’s team. Though with our recent success against Sparty, it’s possible that Joe himself could lace ’em up, go under center and still win comfortably.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 3, 2010 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Considering it's the last ANNUAL match-up for the trophy, expect both teams to be ready...

…to go bowling…with actual bowling balls.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Nov 3, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

It IS similar

since its winner is usually invisible to the rest of the world on a day full of much better rivalries.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Nov 3, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

But the ring isn't invisible. Nor is the trophy.

And the other rivalries? You mean UM-OSU, where one team has won like 31 in a row?

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 3, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would, too.

You guys have owned that rivalry. Want an abhorrent trophy to go along with the game?

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 3, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Whoops.

This is why SBN needs an edit/delete button for comments.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 3, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would, too. I'd love to have that record against any of the "top" Big Ten teams.

Would you mind taking this, as well? Sparty doesn’t seem to want it, and we can’t stand looking at it.

@EpicTripod
SBN - Pittsburgh
Success With Honor

by Jeff Junstrom on Nov 3, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe sometime this offseason

We should research who designed that trophy and what the hell they were thinking.

Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.

by Jonathan Franz on Nov 3, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Designed it?

I thought they found an old bowling trophy in someone’s garage and just added on some MSU-PSU logos to it.

by Chadnudj on Nov 3, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

Pure awesome.

At last a reason to keep it: so every day can be Mustache Wednesday!

by CPT Hoolie on Nov 3, 2010 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh.

All the guys where I work just completed “Stachetoberfest”…it was the grossest month ever.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Nov 3, 2010 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thankfully, they've all been shorn.

Isn’t Movember only observed in Canada?

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Nov 4, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

So the winner of this year's game gets to decide who keeps it, right?

“You keep it!”

“No, YOU keep it! You won!”

Yeah I won, so I get to decide! And I say you keep it!"

by CPT Hoolie on Nov 3, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Of course MSU's had ugly history in Happy Valley

Since PSU joined the Big Ten, there haven’t been more than one or two years when MSU’s been anywhere near this good and PSU’s been anywhere near this mediocre. (There was 2003, but that was a home game for MSU.) Given that context, it’s hardly surprising that MSU hasn’t won in Happy Valley in that time, nor particularly relevant.

by SpartanDan on Nov 3, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice breakdown, thanks. Oh, this is going to be an exciting November.

Granted, I don't know what down it is..

by KenK on Nov 3, 2010 7:47 AM CDT reply actions  

If you ever post a picture of JLS again....

….I will burn your house down and saute your dog.
(well not really, but I will send a sternly worded letter to the editor)

Other than that, good post.

by Spartan D on Nov 3, 2010 8:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I swear that picture

actually slapped itself a minute ago.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Nov 3, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't understand,

A 10-2 final record is enough to land the Hawks a BCS at large bid — probably to face the SEC runner up in the Sugar Bowl.

Why does this piss you off? Yes I’d rather go to the Rose Bowl, but having to settle for the Sugar Bowl wouldn’t suck.

I didn't order assholes with my whiskey

by White Lightning on Nov 3, 2010 8:12 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm an Ohio State fan

Does that answer your question?

Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.

by Jonathan Franz on Nov 3, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah

I guess that makes sense, sorry its early.

I didn't order assholes with my whiskey

by White Lightning on Nov 3, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is no question in my mind that at least two of the vaunted four will lose at least one game down the stretch

my bet is Ohio State and Michigan State. MSU looks spent emotionally and may have been living on borrowed time. Their rushing attack has evaporated as of late, and in the windy month of November that is a recipe for disaster. Ohio State’s best win? Illinois. This is an odd Ohio State team from my vantage point. They certainly have the tools to go 4-0 but look disjointed to me. I can assure the Bukeye faithful that Iowa with Stanzi is significantly more than Iowa with Vandenberg. Add in that this is a road game and…

Wisconsin is a mystery to me. The Ohio State game is the ceiling and the MSU game the floor. Have no idea what this team will do, whatever the result it will not surprise me.

While Ohio State has owned Iowa in recent and not so recent years. The one thing we know is this, when Iowa is really good they play Ohio State really well. OSU is 5-4 against the Hawkeyes since 1979 (year of Hayden Fry’s arrival and rebirth of Iowa football) when playing an Iowa team that wins at least 9 games. I am pretty sure this is a 9 win Hawkeye team. Buckle up.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Nov 3, 2010 9:10 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed

Ohio State hasn’t beaten anyone yet, which explains why they’re at a standstill in the BCS rankings. Even in last week’s route of Minnesota, the Buckeyes showed they’re vulnerable over the top — which happens to be one of Stanzi’s favorite places to find DJK.

I see Iowa jumping out to a 21-7 lead after Ohio State gives up a big kickoff return, and play action pass to Koulianos. Our offensive line will struggle on the edge, stunting an attack that’s already ill suited to play catch up, especially on the road.

Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.

by Jonathan Franz on Nov 3, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

RE: Kickoff return.

I know tOSU has had their issues on special teams this season but Iowa has actually lost two games because of their atrocious ST. Don’t expect a DJK redux from last season, this will be the battle of who screws up less.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Nov 3, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

In MSU's favor

They have Minnesota, who is not going to beat anyone, much less a top-tier Big Ten team, then a bye to recover before their last two games. Not saying they’ll win out but they stand a good chance of being un-spent by the time they visit Happy Valley. OSU and Iowa face the highest probability of a loss because they still have to play one another. As a non-expert in these matters, I’d actually rank Wisconsin’s probability of winning out highest, but will defer to those who have crunched the numbers.

by TheCrestedHelm on Nov 3, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

No question? I disagree that it's a foregone conclusion that even two of the four will lose a game.

One of the four will lose a game down the stretch guaranteed, since Iowa and OSU play each other.

In my mind, ranking in descending order of likelihood of picking up a loss:

None
MSU
Winner of Iowa/OSU
Wisconsin

Additionally, do you really see any of those teams picking up more than one loss (as you put it, losing at least one game)? Iowa losing at NU and to OSU? OSU losing at Iowa and to Michigan? MSU losing to Purdue and at Penn State? Wisconsin losing at Michigan and to NU?

by CPT Hoolie on Nov 3, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also,

What’s your basis for saying MSU is emotionally spent, other than reading too much into a big Iowa win coupled with your own wishful thinking of how Iowa can go to the Rose Bowl?

by CPT Hoolie on Nov 3, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

i'm emotionally spent

anyways, Michigan State has been starting so horribly in games and surviving late. Why is this troubling? Because 80% of our readers picked the Spartans to lose against Iowa…and then everything we thought was troubling (no run game, inability to stop teams early) all came true. MSU has side issues (Rucker, the expectations monster) that can be grating and when you go 8-0 and people start talkin nat’l title game, that can prime you for letdowns.

Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.

by Graham Filler on Nov 3, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you are seeing a trend when you barely have enough data points for a line.

Maybe you could tell us what you mean by “starting so horribly”. The only start I’d consider horrible is against Iowa. MSU trailed Northwestern at half but came back to win, so it obviously wasn’t insurmountable. Vs. Illinois, MSU trailed 6-3 at half and won 26-6.

Also, unless you go undefeated (which rarely happens), any loss can be categorized as a “letdown”, rightly or wrongly — I say wrongly. Sometimes you just run into a better team, as is what happened against Iowa.

by CPT Hoolie on Nov 3, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

MSU is averaging

3.3 points in the 1st half of their last 3 games. Add to that the fact that they’ve given up 30 and 17 in the 1st half of the last two…yeah I’d say that qualifies for starting horribly in recent games.

Horrible starts can be overcome…but eventually they tend to catch up to you. Iowa found this out as well…last year we have some pretty bad starts and ended up pulling them out…but then we traveled to Arizona this year and shit the bed right out of the gate…and weren’t quite able to overcome it.

Add to that MSU’s recent history of starting the season well and then at the first sign of adversity packing it in…I’d say you have some cause for concern.

This year’s MSU team has faced adversity and been able to overcome it…but an ass whooping of epic proportions like they received last week is an entirely different animal. Maybe they come out of it for the better…but Dantonio’s team have given us no reason to believe that.

by HawKCP on Nov 3, 2010 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually

That’s more of a JLS-coached MSU characteristic.

Dantonio’s 2008 team rebounded from a 45-7 blasting by OSU to win 3 straight. He also has a 6-3 record in November, with the only losses coming to the UM team that beat Tebow and a pair of 11 win PSU squads.

There are plenty of reasons to think that MSU will be fine down the stretch.

by Stuka on Nov 3, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ahem.

One of those November wins was an early Christmas gift. Guess which one it was and you get an unconscionable 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty and an idiotic timeout…

Oh no, don't tell me Matt Barkley ALSO doesn't tie his shoes...
Wisconsin, throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 6, 2010 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps the fact that they have not shown the steady improvement that other top tier teams have, that important pieces such as the rushing game and pressuring the opposing quarterback are stalling or even regressing. That, combined with them never waking up in Iowa city AT ALL is probably the basis is. That and us wanting the rose bowl for ourselves.
/almosthomer’d

I've been in love (truly) with five women, the Spanish Republic and the 4th Infantry Division.

by sailorjerry on Nov 3, 2010 11:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

So if MSU runs for 300 yards against Minnesota, is the MSU run game un-regressing?

You give Illinois and Iowa’s defenses discredit by claiming that the problem with MSU’s run game is due to “regression”.

MSU’s sacks per game, in order: 1, 2, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 4, 8, 0. Please tell me how that sequence demonstrates “stalling” or “regressing”.

by CPT Hoolie on Nov 3, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

totally agree

MSU has faced some good defenses, not regresed. I still think they are couple years off from consistently competing with the big boys…

by St8rBoiInMN on Nov 4, 2010 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’m reading too much into this, undoubtedly, but Dantonio looks like he’s gotten wound way too tight with the volatility that has been this season for him. I’d wondering if his team isn’t beginning to reflect that, too.

by txhawkeye on Nov 3, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

You *are* reading too much into it.

I don’t understand your basis for making that claim. Because Iowa had a great game against them? Because they got down early, and in trying to catch up, got TylerSashed?

If anything, this team has adopted Dantonio’s mentality and eliminated the bipolar nature of the JLS teams.

by CPT Hoolie on Nov 3, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

When a team loses that badly

you have concerns. Iowa has not lost a game by more than 7-points in three years. You have to go back to 2007 for anything resembling this sort of a let down by MSU. Good teams don’t get smoked liked that without creating serious concern about attitude, etc.

You can whistle through the graveyard if you like but be prepared for the “I told you so” postings. MSU has issues and they have been specifically stated here (slow starts, limited run game, etc.). Toss in that Penn State has completely throttled this coaching staff….issues worth of concern.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Nov 4, 2010 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

We agree to disagree then.

You have concerns. I don’t have concerns. I feel confident I can determine the reasons why the recent stats are the way they are. My reasons are a lot more logical and empirical than “horrible starts” and “limited run game” and “letdown” and “attitude” and “Dantonio wound too tight”.

You are entitled to accuse me of whistling through the graveyard, just like I am entitled to think of you as an arrogant, pompous ass who loves to poke other fanbases for kicks and argues just for the sake of arguing.

by CPT Hoolie on Nov 4, 2010 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're touchy dude...

and this venue seems to not suit you. And look up the word empirical…if you think quoting stats about first half point production is not factual information then I don’t know what to tell you.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Nov 4, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why oh why do I wind up agreeing with that?

Oh no, don't tell me Matt Barkley ALSO doesn't tie his shoes...
Wisconsin, throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 4, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

While Ohio State has owned Iowa in recent and not so recent years. The one thing we know is this, when Iowa is really good they play Ohio State really well. OSU is 5-4 against the Hawkeyes since 1979 (year of Hayden Fry’s arrival and rebirth of Iowa football) when playing an Iowa team that wins at least 9 games. I am pretty sure this is a 9 win Hawkeye team. Buckle up.

Interesting stat. Though the 4 years OSU lost to a 9+ win Iowa team were:
1983 (OSU’s record 9-3)
1987 (OSU’s record 6-4-1)
1991 (OSU’s record 8-4)
2004 (OSU’s record 8-4)

So if we stipulate that both teams win at least 9 games (and I’m pretty sure this is a 9 win Buckeye team) since 1979, then OSU is 5-1 vs. Iowa.

Not that any of this historical data indicates who is going to win in Iowa City in a few weeks, but if we’re looking selectively at historical records we might as well be fair in doing so.

by Estrada on Nov 3, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair in doing so...

Sounds like a good idea.

No arbitrary distinctions necessary. Jim Tressel is 4-4 against Wisconsin in his career at Ohio State. That’s the perfect average.

Oh no, don't tell me Matt Barkley ALSO doesn't tie his shoes...
Wisconsin, throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 3, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or maybe it's having had the toughest first five weeks in the conference

(Wisconsin has an argument, with OSU-MSU-Iowa-Minnesota, but at least there’s one breather in there plus the bye. We’ve played three teams that are already bowl eligible, a fourth will get there this weekend, and the fifth probably will at some point and is a massive rivalry game to boot.)

If we don’t beat the crap out of Minnesota, I’ll worry. But you’re drawing flimsy conclusions from inadequate data. So far we’ve given Illinois, Michigan, and Northwestern their biggest losses and Wisconsin their only loss. (To be fair, we’re also the only real team Northwestern has played yet – their other three games were all against Queso Bowl teams. But OSU couldn’t beat Illinois by more than we did or Wisconsin at all, and Iowa played Michigan closer and lost to Wisconsin.) We’re not national title material, but one horrifically ugly game doesn’t exactly scream disaster when the previous four say the opposite.

by SpartanDan on Nov 3, 2010 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa has played five teams that were ranked at the time they met. No other Big Ten team has played more than three. Ohio State has faced two, Northwestern one.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Nov 4, 2010 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

"At the time they met" means precisely jack.

You played Penn State before people realized they don’t have an offense. You played Michigan before people realized that Denard can’t make up for that catastrophe of a defense all by himself. Whoop de freakin’ doo.

(Sorry, you hit one of my pet peeves there. That’s how Alabama was rated as highly as they were through all of 2008 – they beat OMG #9 Clemson, who finished 7-6, in the opener and #3 Georgia – who finished a respectable but definitely not #3 10-3 – in late September. I was arguing before the SEC title game and Sugar Bowl that Utah should have been ranked ahead of them.)

by SpartanDan on Nov 4, 2010 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hindsight is 20/20`

at the time Iowa preapred to play those teams they were well regarded by computers, so-called experts and of course the Iowa staff. Iowa beat 3 of them and that added to their drop in stock.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Nov 8, 2010 6:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Also, I'm talking about conference schedule only.

PSU-Michigan-BYE-Wisconsin-MSU isn’t exactly an easy schedule, but at least you had the bye.

by SpartanDan on Nov 4, 2010 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's just so damn arbitrary

People are legitimizing an MSU loss against that upcoming slate using hyperbole and off-field conclusions to drive their opinions. It’s asinine and, frankly, stupid. Can MSU lose to Penn State? Uh, damn right they can. But it’s because of the talent on the field, not because of Mark Dantonio being ‘tight’ and everyone here apparently being psychology majors.

by cwel87 on Nov 3, 2010 2:33 PM CDT reply actions  

We're not psych majors

We’re lawyers. Parsing things is what we do.

Off Tackle Empire - Ruling on the Big Ten since 2008.

by Hilary Lee on Nov 3, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right..it has nothing to do with attitude

MSU was and remains in a perfectly fine frame of mind.

Iowa is just tremendously more talented and significantly better coached.

Now, that make you happier? Sheesh…

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Nov 4, 2010 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

One quibble on the MSU scenario

(Aside from the loss, which is just, like, your opinion, man.)

If Wisconsin loses and MSU wins out, MSU is very likely to get an at-large, ahead of 10-2 Wisconsin and either 10-2 OSU (who lost to Iowa) or 9-3 Iowa (who lost to OSU). Wisconsin with a head-to-head loss and a worse record would have almost no chance of staying ahead. If the former, the gap in record with similar strength of schedule (Miami is better than Notre Dame, but not by a whole lot and OSU’s other skip is Northwestern instead of Indiana) will probably be enough. (Yes, I know, bowls look at other factors too, but I don’t think OSU’s name alone would move them ahead with a full game lead.) If the latter, even with a blowout win head-to-head there’s no way Iowa is in the top 14 to qualify in the first place.

by SpartanDan on Nov 3, 2010 6:38 PM CDT reply actions  

You're right

I missed both scenarios. If Wisky loses (to finish 10-2), and Ohio State loses (to also finish 10-2) a 10-2 Iowa (7-1 in conference) would win the head to head tiebreaker over 11-1 MSU (7-1 in conference) and would go to the Rose Bowl. In that scenario, I agree that Michigan State gets an at large bid over Wisky and OSU.

Same for the second scenario, where Wisky loses (to finish 10-2) and Iowa loses to OSU. OSU 11-1 (7-1 in conference) gets the automatic birth over an 11-1 (7-1) MSU, and again Michigan State is an attractive at large option over a 10-2 Wisconsin and 9-3 Iowa.

Good catch.

Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.

by Jonathan Franz on Nov 3, 2010 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

mmmmm
A 10-2 final record is enough to land the Hawks a BCS at large bid — probably to face the SEC runner up in the Sugar Bowl.

I do enjoy beignets :)

and that's another Hawkeye first down... EHAWW!!

by HawkPocket on Nov 3, 2010 10:55 PM CDT reply actions  

Let's be real

not as good as a baffle.

But what if someone made bacon beignets……… OH MY GOD

Off Tackle Empire - Ruling on the Big Ten since 2008.

by Hilary Lee on Nov 4, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Considering that a Big Ten at-large has a reasonable shot at playing an SEC opponent, including Auburn, I’d keep a very close eye on this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5765214

by OSUreds on Nov 4, 2010 7:55 PM CDT reply actions  

I have no clue whether it’s true or not, but it could be a huge distraction.

by OSUreds on Nov 4, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

No kidding.

That showed up on Yahoo! when I checked it. Crazy stuff.

Oh no, don't tell me Matt Barkley ALSO doesn't tie his shoes...
Wisconsin, throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 4, 2010 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

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