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Around SBN: Bill Stewart Dead From Apparent Heart Attack

With Every Wish

As Jim Delaney and the Big Ten figure out what to do with Michigan and Ohio State (Keep 'em Together! Split 'em Apart!), it is apparent that the league has learned the lessons of the Big 12. That is, it is not going to rely on one power to be the strength of an entire division (And don't give me K-State and Colorado garbage. A handful of good years doesn't make a power. A handful of decades does.). That's good. No matter what alignment is chosen, it looks certain that the divisions will be balanced. 

The latest rumors have Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin holding down one division (the Woody Paterno Division) and Michigan, Nebraska, and Iowa anchoring the other (the Bo Devaney Division). Assume that each of those teams plays the corresponding opponent as their permanent rival (as I trumpeted here). That's great. What everyone anticipates is that, in most years, we'll see some combination of those six teams in the championship game. That's probably right. What might surprise you is the lesson from the SEC that Jim Delaney may not have learned.

Star-divide

In 1992, the SEC split into divisions. Initially, teams had two permanent cross-division rivals. That changed to one about a decade ago. Much as with the current Big Ten rumors, the SEC had three powers placed in each division. Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida in the East. Alabama, Auburn, and LSU in the West. Each of those teams plays its corresponding rival in the other division. As you would anticipate, these six teams have accounted for 32 of the 36 appearances in the SEC Championship Game and all 18 titles.

In many ways, Michigan and Ohio State are matches for Alabama and Tennessee in 1991. In both leagues, the pair of teams combined to win more titles than all of the conference's other members. In 1991, the SEC, no doubt, envisioned Alabama and Tennessee waging a December battle to add to the lore of those famous third Saturdays in October. And yet, it's never happened. In 18 years, the Vols and Tide have never met for an SEC title. What's more, Auburn and Georgia have never faced each other for the SEC title. Further, LSU and Florida have never faced each other for an SEC title. 

Why? Simple. Each year, one of those teams is going to lose its cross-division rivalry game. And the same will happen when Penn State faces Nebraska, when Iowa hosts Wisconsin, and yes, even when Michigan and Ohio State meet. It's not that a team can't win its division with a cross-division loss (LSU did it in 2001 and 2003). It just leaves no margin for error. 

So, I do expect to see Iowa and Penn State, Michigan and Wisconsin, and Ohio State and Nebraska facing off for the Big Ten title. It's also possible that one day we'll see the Michigan-Ohio State battle that all are now anticipating as a twice-a-year event. But I wouldn't expect it too often. The SEC has taught us it'll be a rarity.

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Good point

But I would still like to see Michigan and Ohio State in the same division.

Ever Grateful. Ever True.

by PurdueMatt on Aug 25, 2010 7:44 AM CDT reply actions  

Same here.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Aug 25, 2010 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

The question is...

Can we leave THE GAME at the end of the year if a rematch is as unlikely as it seems? And would it be so bad if it happened once in a great while? I remember how many people were clamoring for a UM – OSU rematch for the MNC in 2006. Of course, there were also a lot of people arguing against it.

I think the worse offense here is moving THE GAME from the last game of the regular season than splitting up the teams.

That is sooooo not funny - Maize N Brew Dave

by jeepnut on Aug 25, 2010 8:17 AM CDT reply actions  

I think the worst offense

is putting a single game over an entire conference.

"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Hawkeye State

Off Tackle Empire

by Bama Hawkeye on Aug 25, 2010 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Screw you guys!

Big two and little nine forever

That is sooooo not funny - Maize N Brew Dave

by jeepnut on Aug 25, 2010 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wha?

I type a string of exclamation points and ones for sarcasm’s sake and I get an image instead?

/sbn’d

That is sooooo not funny - Maize N Brew Dave

by jeepnut on Aug 25, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Except that hurting that rivalry game doesn't help the conference in any way

You can make the divisions at least close to balanced without splitting them (and long term, balance is going to shift enough that it’s insane to put it ahead of other considerations). The rivalry certainly won’t be helped by splitting them and making it a random October game instead of closing out the season. And geographically it makes sense to have them together.

Everyone acts like there’s a tradeoff here. There isn’t. The most logical thing for the conference as a whole keeps them together.

by SpartanDan on Aug 26, 2010 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

there are really four groups

of rivalry bundles, which oddly enough can be split to make fairly even divisions while maintaining almost all key rivalries through divisions games. There are a lot of people who want to see Mich and OSU play The Game for a conference crown instead of a division one.

Let’s not pretend that it is a given that Mich gets out of it’s slump anytime soon. Treating them like a big dog because of their historical record is foolish.

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 26, 2010 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Three

Wisc-Minn-Iowa-(Neb), MSU-Mich-OSU-PSU, Ind-Ill-Pur-NW.

by SpartanDan on Aug 27, 2010 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Splitting up Michigan and OSU would be a horrible Idea

There is a great deal of passion (ie Hate) between those teams and cooling off that rivalry by messing with it would seriously dilute the Big Ten brand. Make them go through each other every year, it’s what makes the victory so sweet. Let’s not go the Texas route and create easier paths to MNCs.

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 25, 2010 8:23 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

If Michigan and Ohio State

are presumed to be the two best teams, wouldn’t putting them in the same division create an easier path through the other division?

"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Hawkeye State

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by Bama Hawkeye on Aug 25, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why does everyone presume that will always be the case?

Michigan sucks right now, Ohio State has sucked in the past and will again (just hopefully not in my lifetime). Every team goes through periods of dominance and suckitude. Keeping teams aligned geographically is the best soluton, because that’s why the rivalry probably developed in the first place, and why it will remain a strong rivalry.

And I think it’s a slap to Nebraska, Iowa, and Wisconsin to say they will be in a cakewalk division. I’ll take any of thosteams ver Michigan and Penn State.

"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons."

The Daily Norseman
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by Ted Glover on Aug 25, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because

Most of the talking heads, broadcasters and sportswriters were coming of age between 1969-1980 when that was the case.

"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Hawkeye State

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by Bama Hawkeye on Aug 25, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or...

…because it happened as recently as 2006….and probably would have happened in 2003…and probably 1998….and maybe 1997….

In other words, 4 out of the past 17 seasons (nearly 25% of the time), if the Big Ten had divisions that separated OSU and Michigan and played The Game at the end of October rather than the end of November, you could have/likely would have seen a rematch in the conference title game.*

*Yes, this analysis ignores Nebraska, since I can’t figure out a way to factor their performance in when they’d be playing in a better conference than the Big 12 in almost every one of those years….

by Chadnudj on Aug 25, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not quite sure if youre supporting the notion that OSU/Mich will always eventually be the top...

or that this particular game is deserving of more weight than any of the others because it has been a big game in the conference standings.

The simple fact that this particular rivalry involves the two most historically winning programs in the conference also helps. I don’t mean to belittle Iowa or Wisconsin, but they are a level below mich, osu and PSU as programs. Since the addition of a program in the same strata as both teams participating in "The Game" (psu), "The Game" has decided the conference champion 4 times, 1997, 2003, 2006, 2007.

In that same time frame, the osu-PSU game (should the matchup have been played at the end of the season) could also have been deemed the conference championship game at least 3 times 2005, 2008 and 2009. I was able to look back as far as 2002 on espn and couldn’t find older end of season standings, however I could guess at possibly 1994 as another year.

This isn’t to compare the michigan-ohio state rivalry to the psu-osu one, they are entirely different. It is meant to show 2 things. First, being the top two programs in the conference was a crucial part of this rivalry’s development. Second, being at the end of the season the games is allowed to have the "championship game" feel.

The addition of yet another heavyweight program to the conference alters the balance again. What was for a long time a conference of the big 2 and little 8 is now the historic 4 (um, osu, psu, neb), relevant 2 or 3 of 6 in any given year (mn, wi, iowa, jnw, msu, pur) and the bottom 2 (ill,ind). The more great teams involved in the conference the less important any given pair can be. The less any given game should dictate conference wide issues like divisions.

I’m not in favor at all of ending the game or anything of the sort, it should be maintained, as well as the numerous other rivalry games.

by bconway6 on Aug 25, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

to be quite honest

it isn’t possible to predict future success. It’s why aligning divisions based upon rivalries first (since they tend to last a lot longer than anything else and drive ratings) and competetive balance second will lead you to an east west split.

Whether that is fair or not to PSU, Mich and OSU is another question. Fair competitive balance is a myth. I refuse to give up rivalries so PSU, Mich, OSU and UNL can play king of the mountain in their own minds. The fact of the matter is that at least one of those four is likely to be in a down year versus the others anyways. How does having a division with one of the historic top four and the numbers 5-7 lets say in the same division make is so much weaker than having the top three and then also rans?

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 25, 2010 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Bingo

No matter what divisions you pick, they’re going to end up horribly imbalanced a decent percentage of the time anyway. Geography lasts forever, rivalries almost as long, balance is transient. Build divisions based on the things you can predict, not the one you can’t.

by SpartanDan on Aug 26, 2010 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Make them go through each other every year

Agreed and well said.

Ever Grateful. Ever True.

by PurdueMatt on Aug 25, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Game is still The Game

Honestly, will any Buckeye or Wolverine fans hate the other any less if they play the last weekend in October rather than the last weekend in November?

And if you lose the new October version of The Game, wouldn’t you enjoy having the hope of vindication if your team somehow found a way to run the table the rest of the year, and get a chance for revenge in a conference championship game?

I’m honestly asking because to me, splitting Michigan and OSU into separate divisions (while guaranteeing that The Game still happens once a year thru a protected rivalry at the end of October) makes far too much sense — balances divisions without doing something silly like putting Penn State with teams that are all 1000+ miles away, and offers a chance (however slight) to stage an occasional rematch of The Game, which would be simply epic in scope and drama…..

by Chadnudj on Aug 25, 2010 9:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Nailed it.

"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Hawkeye State

Off Tackle Empire

by Bama Hawkeye on Aug 25, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks...

My only question, though, is how then do the divisions work out?

Presumably you get OSU-PSU and Michigan-MSU-Nebraska based on “competitive balancing” and “protecting necessary rivalries” right off the bat….I’d add Purdue to OSU-PSU (a pretty good comparable team to MSU).

You then need to split Iowa and Wisconsin….since Iowa needs to stay with Nebraska, Wisconsin goes to the other division:

OSU-PSU-Purdue-Wisconsin
Michigan-Nebraska-MSU-Iowa

That leaves Illinois, Northwestern, Minny, and Indiana. I’d say put Minny and Indiana with the OSU division (keeping Purdue-Indiana and Wisconsin-Minny alive), and Illinois and Northwestern with Michigan. Leaving us with:

OSU-PSU-Purdue-Wisconsin-Minny-Indiana
Michigan-Nebraska-MSU-Iowa-Northwestern-Illinois

Now what do you do about “protected” cross-divisional rivalries? It gets a little tricky here — you could just line them up in the order I listed, but then you miss out on Iowa-Minny (which I assume, Bama Hawkeye, is maybe higher up on the pecking order for Iowa fans than Iowa-Wisconsin).

My solution? Flip Iowa and Northwestern in that list in terms of protected rivals, giving Iowa-Minny and Northwestern-Wisconsin (a good border battle, the teams are close to each other, and they have a good recent series going since 1993).

OSU-Michigan
PSU-Nebraska
Purdue-MSU (maybe the weakest on this list, but they’re pretty close geographically)
Wisconsin-Northwestern
Minny-Iowa
Indiana-Illinois

Does that work for everyone?

by Chadnudj on Aug 25, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that you're close

Your divisions matched what I proposed. As for the rivalry games, I think that you’re going to see Wisconsin and Iowa matched. It’s a more competitive series, and adds more balance. This means that we’ll likely have two Floyd-less years between 2011 and 2014 (as Minnesota and Iowa will play two of the four years). Once we hit 2015 and have a nine game slate with two protected cross rivals, that works itself out. Put Minnesota with Northwestern (because there isn’t a good match for the two schools). Also, flip your Purdue and Indiana games. As commenters reminded me in my column, Indiana and MSU have had a trophy game for years. Same with Illinois and Purdue.

So the rivals would be:
OSU/Mich
PSU/Neb
Wisc/Iowa
Purdue/Illinois
Indiana/MSU
Minnesota/NW

"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Hawkeye State

Off Tackle Empire

by Bama Hawkeye on Aug 25, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only sticky wicket in your idea, Bama . . .

Is I’m not sure the UW/Minnesota rivalry will be allowed to split.

Isn’t it like the longest-running rivalry in college football? And despite Minnesota’s suckitude, there is just as much bile and hatred in that rivalry as in “The Game”.

by Torbee on Aug 25, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

They're in the same division.

"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Hawkeye State

Off Tackle Empire

by Bama Hawkeye on Aug 25, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly....

….I hate that Northwestern got shafted in 1993 in terms of protected rivalries (Purdue? Really?), so I’m not crazy about a new plan that screws Northwestern again, even though you make some sense on keeping Wisconsin-Iowa due to competitive balance, and noting the other rivalries….although none of them are really all that significant/important, if you ask me (No one in Delaney’s office are staying up late trying to figure out a way to keep Indiana-MSU or Purdue-Illinois an annual game)

by Chadnudj on Aug 25, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

It sickens me to think that Floyd will be shelved

after 75 years straight to preserve the Heartland bull [which is what? seven years old] and more importantly the perceived television scheduling strength of the conference.

Couldn’t we pause the Wisconsin Iowa series for a few years, which was intermittent as recently as the mid ’90s and bring it back in 2015, rather than halt a trophy game series that has been uninterrupted ever since the actual hog was wagered in ’35. That brass hog sadly is the last link my poor program has with its storied past. Instead you are going to stick us with the fricking Wildcats?! Oh that will really help the local ticket sales.

If my poor Gophers end up not playing Iowa, Michigan, or Nebraska [also a once proud rivalry] regularly I am going to find Delaney and cold cock him.

 And when I get out of jail, I’ll do it again.

by ulf on Aug 27, 2010 6:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

may I suggest brass knuckles?

If you’re going to do time…do time.

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 27, 2010 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Someone should make a Call of Duty mod with Delany, Dave Brandon, and Gene Smith's faces as all hostile NPCs...

It would be an instant bestseller in East Lansing…

My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
For all the crap we give Wil Wheaton, he can still tackle better than Asante Samuel...
Manning drops back to pass, Comedic.Sans and Wilfork come flying in and SACK him for a loss of twelve on 3rd and goal!

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 29, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

You realize

that putting OSU and Michigan in separate divisions is the ONLY way that they can possibly meet in the last game of the Big Ten season, right? Otherwise, they’re still going to have beat the other division champ to win a Big Ten title.

Unless Michigan has fallen to the point that winning Conference Division Titles seems like a big deal…

"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Hawkeye State

Off Tackle Empire

by Bama Hawkeye on Aug 25, 2010 9:14 AM CDT reply actions  

I think they have...

that 0-1-10 defense they’re running this year is gonna be ugly

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 25, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought they were running the 1-1-9?

And they’d be ranked the 119th best defense in division 1…

My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
"What's your formula for the corner?" -Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory
"Ah gravity, thou art a heartless b*tch." --Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 25, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

with troy woolfork out

they’ve moved their remaining defensive lineman to play in the secondary

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 25, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Same Division, last week before conf champ game

that way it still means “something” by determining who goes on to play in champ game and we don’t end up with some weird “”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering" >gerrymandered" division lines.

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 25, 2010 11:06 AM CDT reply actions  

link fail, as usual

should say “gerrymandered” with this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

yeah, i paid attention in social studies in HS

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 25, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Translation

Please keep OSU/Michigan in the same division. We’re not good enough to get to the championship game and have the game mean anything more than just our petty annual squabble.

"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Hawkeye State

Off Tackle Empire

by Bama Hawkeye on Aug 25, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

who's the "we" in that statement?

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 25, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's

The Michigan and OSU supporters who feel that the only way that the game can “still mean something” is if it’s played for a division title.

"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Hawkeye State

Off Tackle Empire

by Bama Hawkeye on Aug 25, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think it't the only way

it’s just what I prefer.

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 25, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

assuming you mean UM

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 25, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Assuming UM/MSU/Nebraska/Iowa/Nwestern/Illinois in one division

and OSU/PSU/Indiana/Purdue/Wisconsin/Minnesota in the other division, the inter-division protected games should be:

Michigan/Ohio State (The Game)
Iowa/Minnesota (Floyd of Rosedale)
Penn State/Michigan State (Land Grant Trophy)
Illinois/Indiana (already protected)
Purdue/Nwestern (already protected)
Wisconsin/Nebraska

The final weekend of the regular season (i.e., Thanksgiving weekend) should match intra-division rivals the following way:

Ohio State/Penn State
Michigan/Michigan State
Iowa/Nebraska
Wisconsin/MInnesota
Northwestern/Illinois
Indiana/Purdue

Based upon the foregoing, the Big 10 could own the airwaves that Friday and Saturday.

by Jdub1126 on Aug 25, 2010 4:39 PM CDT reply actions  

did a penn state fan pay you to put OSU/PSU as an end of season "rivalry" game??

or are you said penn state fan?

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 25, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Penn State has been FAR more competitive than Michigan of late, though.

My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
"What's your formula for the corner?" -Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory
"Ah gravity, thou art a heartless b*tch." --Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 25, 2010 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

key words: "of late"

I’m not quite the “get of my lawn type” just yet, but OSU/Mich is over 100 years old and will be competitive again sometime down the line. OSU/PSU goes back as far as…93? I know they played before that, but really it’s 93 on.

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 26, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

given the divisions…would you rather play wisconsin? I could see that. Indiana, Minnesota or Purdue, not so much.

by bconway6 on Aug 25, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying I don't want PSU in the same division

swapping out penn state and michigan for the last game of the year just doesn’t feel right.

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 26, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Even if the game isn't a Michigan contest, but a ritual Buckeye waxing of the Wolverines?

My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
"What's your formula for the corner?" -Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory
"Ah gravity, thou art a heartless b*tch." --Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 26, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm "this close" to yelling "get off my lawn" to Delaney.

THE game is an annual tradition like christmas, thanksgiving, and for some, showering.

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 26, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

There have been only 2 "eras" of OSU-UM in my life, that I remember...

Born in 85, so I’ve lived 2-10-1 under Cooper and 8-1 under Tressel. One was a great decade, one was a terrible decade, but they all matter, they all feel “right”

"I think so, Brain, but how are we going to get the bacon flavoring into the pencils?"

by MikeLew on Aug 26, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've written my ideas out in a fan post....

OSU/Mich/PSU/MSU/Illinois/Indiana in one divsion, Neb/Iowa/Wis/Purdue/N’western/Minn in the other.

Cross-divisional games are IU-PU, Mich-Minn, Ill-NW, Iowa-PSU, Wis-MSU, OSU-Neb.

Last weekend of the regular season is OSU-Mich, Iowa-Neb, Wis-Minn, PSU-MSU, IU-PU, and Ill-NW.

I’ve gone in more depth on the FanPost , and any and all comments are welcome

"I think so, Brain, but how are we going to get the bacon flavoring into the pencils?"

by MikeLew on Aug 25, 2010 5:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "rival",

but instead used “paired” division partner.

by Jdub1126 on Aug 25, 2010 5:15 PM CDT reply actions  

MikeLew, read your proposal

My only complaint is that if one division has NU/Iowa/UW and the other has PSU/OSU/UM, why not switch Illinois and Pudue and base the divisions solely on geography with the Illinois/Indiana border the line of demarcation?

by Jdub1126 on Aug 25, 2010 5:19 PM CDT reply actions  

Switching Illinois and Purdue would change the competitive balance a fair amount....

In my plan, the East has 427 wins from 93-09, the West 414. If you switch those two schools, the numbers change to East 445, West 396.

Also, if you switch Illinois and Purdue, then the protected cross-divisional games would have to be OSU-Illinois, Michigan-Minnesota, Purdue-Northwestern, Iowa/Wisconsin/Nebraska against MSU/PSU/Indiana, in order to regain both the Illibuck and Little Brown Jug trophies. That means that one of the West’s “Big Three” are going to get a perennially much easier cross divisional slate, which I’m not sure the other two would like.

That said, straight East-West works for me, as long as they return the trophy games back to yearly contests.

"I think so, Brain, but how are we going to get the bacon flavoring into the pencils?"

by MikeLew on Aug 25, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

All trophy games?

not all trophy games are played every year now…and some unfortunately are. See, Governor’s Victory Bell and Land Grant Bookcase Trophy respectively.

East/West with a freely rotating cross division schedule works for me. With minimal collateral damage.

by bconway6 on Aug 25, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Straight East/West

would be OSU/Mich/PSU/MSU/Ind/Pur and Neb/Iowa/Wis/Minn/Ill/N’western.

That takes care of all trophy games except Illibuck, Purdue Cannon, Little Brown Jug, and Governor’s Victory Bell. You won’t be able to get all of those, but you could get 2 of 4, with permanent cross-overs: OSU/Ill or Ill/Pur AND Mich/Minn or Minn/PSU. If that were the case, I’d rather have Illibuck and Little Brown Jug, due to history.

All in all, it looks like a moot point, since Barry Alvarez said that Iowa would be separated from Wisconsin and Minnesota.

The Big Ten is being very VERY stupid with all of this splitting up going on.

"I think so, Brain, but how are we going to get the bacon flavoring into the pencils?"

by MikeLew on Aug 26, 2010 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

absolutely

I think this is where Jim Delaney errs. They are all going to get too cute and make assumptions about program strength that won’t necessarily hold up.

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 26, 2010 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Remember the mistakes the ACC made...

We shall never forget…

My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
"What's your formula for the corner?" -Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory
"Ah gravity, thou art a heartless b*tch." --Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 26, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

what's an ACC?

Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 26, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

A basketball conference only.

My kingdom for a spellchecker. Or Devin Harris. Hopefully both.
"What's your formula for the corner?" -Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory
"Ah gravity, thou art a heartless b*tch." --Doctor Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 26, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

that sounds about right

When asked why he went for 5, Tate responded "..because I couldn't go for 6...".

http://www.insidetheshoe.com/

by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 26, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Split UM and MSU instead

Sleek’s Big Ten Divisions:
1.) Penn State, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Iowa, Minnesota
2.) Ohio State, Michigan, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Nebraska
Protected cross-division rivalries: OSU-PSU, MSU-UM, Indiana-Illinois, Purdue-NW, Iowa-Neb, Wiscy-Minny
This keeps all Big Ten last-day rivalry games on the last day AND preserves competitive balance. Geography kind of goes out the window, but the aforementioned qualities are more important. No need to thank me, Jim Delany…but do it anyway.

by AgentSleek on Aug 26, 2010 1:39 AM CDT reply actions  

that still leaves us with 3 of the top four in one division

if the whole point of not doing east-west is to have “balance” at the top then this is no better.

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 26, 2010 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

if Iowa and WI are really being split

there is a better chance of a north south split. With Mich, MSU, MN, WI and PSU in the North and NEB, IA, OSU definitely in the south. Then the IN, Purdue, Ill, and Northwestern group would be split up between them.

Then OSU and Mich would have to have a protected rivalry game.

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 26, 2010 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Four of top six in one division.

FAIL.

If balance matters at all, it’s not splitting the top four, but the top six. (Iowa and Wisconsin are within a couple games of Michigan-Nebraska-PSU of late.)

by SpartanDan on Aug 27, 2010 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Program strength vs. brand strength

I fully agree that programs have good times and bad times, regardless of who you are. But I think when Delany talks about “competitive split” he’s really referring to splitting the most successful football brands. They want to split the four programs with the largest national appeal, the ones that will generate the most hype and ratings. These teams will continue to have national appeal even when they’re down. Even though Michigan has been down lately, has that stopped the national media from talking about them constantly?

If you think about it from a business and marketing perspective, it makes total sense. Unfortunately, we’re fans and it sucks a little for us!

by lmrlion on Aug 26, 2010 8:16 AM CDT reply actions  

That's one way to look at it....

However, given that OSU, UM, PSU, and Neb are already huge brand names, with Iowa and Wisconsin knocking on the door, why wouldn’t we try and create a ton of memorable games for the division – imagine the great match-ups occurring between those 3, and how their brands will grow, giving the conference 6 big-time, brand-name schools instead of four.

"I think so, Brain, but how are we going to get the bacon flavoring into the pencils?"

by MikeLew on Aug 26, 2010 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for pointing that out, TheEvilProfessor

In my arrangement, you could simply switch Iowa and Nebraska, but the Iowa-Minny game gets moved off the last day. No matter how you do divisions, something is going to get changed, fellas. Full disclosure: I’m a Spartan, so I’m actually kind of ambivalent about the whole thing.

by AgentSleek on Aug 26, 2010 11:50 AM CDT reply actions  

newest rumor is the following split

Mich, MSU, Iowa, Nebraska, Northwestern, Illinois
OSU, PSU, Wisc, MN, Purdue, IN

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 26, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

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