In Defense of the B1G: The Conference Really Isn’t That Bad (Except When We Are)
The B1G is dead. At least that’s what most everyone at the WWL would have you believe. With the BCS Rankings officially out, and Wisconsin sitting at a, ‘pitiful’ sixth, it seems as if the B1G was nothing more than a punchline for the SEC and Big XII. The funny thing about this stance, aside from the audacity of such a claim, is that everyone inside the B1G (from what I can tell) seems to be buying what the media tells them. Yesterday, Brian Bennett had this little gem during his weekly B1G chat, "…though Michigan State seems to be coming on. Ohio State being down and Nebraska not living up to hype have hurt the league." Really? So the entire conference is down because Nebraska isn’t quite as good as people hoped, and Ohio State is down? Really?
Well, I am not one of those guys who likes to believe the hype (caveat, I can be convinced that Nebraska is far better than they are AND I can be convinced that éclairs are the best dessert pastry in the world). So I took to the brand new BCS rankings and decided to do a little analysis of my own. Quick warning: This is a long post… Nonetheless, I have always believed that it’s not always about making a good argument that proves I am right, it’s about making sure everyone else is wrong. In this case, it’s not that the B1G is the best, it’s that the other conferences really aren’t that much better. Let’s call it the "Thank You For Smoking" effect… and I’m never wrong.
The PremiseI don’t think the B1G is the worst conference top to bottom. In fact, I had a sneaky suspicion going in that if it weren’t for the basement of the conference, the B1G would be the best or close to it. So, from a methodology standpoint, this is very simple. I listed the rankings for each school via their BCS ranking and averaged that ranking across to determine where a conference, ‘stands’ as an initial bias. Realizing fully that this has some human element and isn’t perfect, it at least gave me a good place to start. Here is what you get as a baseline:
|
Conference |
Average BCS Rank |
|
Big XII |
29.5 |
|
SEC |
36.9 |
|
ACC |
48.3 |
|
B1G |
49.2 |
|
Big East |
50.8 |
|
Pac 12 |
56.6* |
*USC is unranked by the BCS officially (although listed as 999, how fun is that?)… Let’s just assume the PAC is 11 teams for the sake of argument.
Initially, this more or less makes sense, falls into line with what the WWL is saying, except… THE ACC IS NOT BETTER THAN THE B1G. I will not accept this as reality. So yeah, it was time to dive into the conferences. Surely the Pac12 is also not the worst conference in the nation. This is stupid. It was time to make sense of everything.
A Tiered Approach
Each conference has always broken down into the elite, the trying, and the bodybags. While each division generally varies as to just how many teams is in each, we will be assuming that 12 team leagues are broken into thirds with four teams each. I took a little more liberty with the Big East and Big XII because they don’t really have enough teams to make this easy. The advantage to breaking down tiers is that you really get to see depth. It’s kind of like breaking down games by quarters. The first quarter lets you see talent on talent, the second sees how a team can fight, the third sees how you adjust, and the fourth sees just how deep you are.
In this breakdown, I assumed the following. The top tier will help us see just how strong you are nationally, the middle lets you see how deep you are, and the bodybags lets us see how much statistical error there can be when assessing things like ‘conference rank’ and stuff like that. This seems like as good a time as any to fully admit that there might be a breakdown by a real economist or statistician or someone like that. If so, please let me know. This was a lot of work, and I’m a salesperson, not a mathematician… I’d like to see their thoughts. Back to the analysis!
Tier 1: The Strongmen
If I was asking who the best conference in the nation was, all of you in internet land would say… who? The SEC, right? Okay, maybe not, but it’s a given that they are pretty tough up top. With an average ranking of 6.5, the top four teams in the SEC are pretty unbelievable. The full rankings are as follows:
|
Conference |
Average Tier-1 Rank |
|
SEC |
6.5 |
|
Big XII |
8.75 |
|
B1G |
13.25 |
|
Pac 12 |
17.25 |
|
ACC |
19.25 |
|
Big East |
26.67 |
This is more like it. As opposed to the initial full conference breakdown (which represents national perception more than anything), this represents what might happen in bowl time situations. The top four teams from each conference are the power teams. Even averaging in only three teams, the Big East is still the worst conference here. Seriously, though, this really makes sense when you think about it and helps start to shed light on where everyone stands. Of course, the real interesting piece is in the second tier.
Tier 2: The Depth
One of the only reasons I think Nebraska football will be okay this season is that we are developing a ridiculous amount of depth. I know this is conceding that we have to play young guys and all, but hey… silver linings people. Anyhow, similar to the necessity for a great team to have depth, a great conference proves its worth in the middle. Generally, this is where people are clamoring about how bad the B1G is. In reality, this is a much different look:
|
Conference |
Average Tier-2 Rank |
|
SEC |
33.75 |
|
B1G |
34 |
|
Big XII |
34.5 |
|
ACC |
43.75 |
|
Big East |
44.35 |
|
Pac12 |
60.75 |
Okay, so the SEC is still king of the mountain, but we see a lot more statistical clumping. Whereas the SEC and Big XII were up top by a sizeable margin in the first tier, we have a much more interesting 1-3 with the B1G actually coming out on top of the Big XII. Other things that are funny here. The Pac 12 thought adding Utah and Colorado would be helpful… It isn’t and for them to be successful, they need much more help. Note, the Big East only has two teams in this tier (USF and Cuse) and as such are probably an anomaly of being that high… you know, except for the fact that USC is screwing with the hierarchy. Let’s move on to the bodybags.
Tier 3: The Bodybags
These are the bad teams in the conference. This represents just how many free wins you get and how easy it is to look good. These teams also represent just how far down your conference will look to the nation until bowl team. Unfortunately for the B1G, this isn't pretty.
|
Conference |
Average Tier-2 Rank |
|
Big XII |
61 |
|
SEC |
70.5 |
|
Big East |
79 |
|
ACC |
82 |
|
B1G |
100.25 |
|
Pac12 |
103.67 |
Wow… 100.25 average standing for our bottom tier. That is not a good statistic. If not for a USC-less Pac12, we would be the bottom of the conferences at the bottom. While I did say the second tier was about depth, this shows just how deep some of the other guys really are. The Big XII’s lowest ranked team via the BCS is 66 (Kansas). The SEC’s lowest ranked team is 84 (Kentucky). Those are higher than all four of the B1G teams in this category (Purdue 90, NW 94, Indiana 106!, Minnesota 111!!!). This is why I think perception of the conference is so bad. The bad teams really are that bad!
Making Sense of it All
Again, I don’t claim to be a statistician, economist, mad genius (sometimes I claim to be this), or mathematical guru. I am just a guy who really likes looking at why a perception nationally doesn't equate to a perception internally. The B1G really is a tough conference. There are no weeks off (sorry Minnesota, you’re pretty close this year… it’s not your fault) and everybody is tough. However, the bottom third of the conference is dragging things down this year (I’m looking at you Northwestern), and when discussing things like, "Can Wisconsin really hang with the other elite teams?" it’s important to realize that they still have tough competition. Still, I am not going to really say that any of this means anything specific other than to say that there is a bigger picture out there that we often don't dive into.
Okay, I’m coming in for a landing. If you've gotten through all this, congratulations… seriously. I don’t know if this says the B1G is the best, worst, most in-between, or whatever else you can label them as. I do know they probably have one of the deepest middle tiers of teams in the nation, a decent elite tier, and a terrible bottom tier. Over the next few weeks, Wisconsin will climb their way up this poll, and I’ll try to revisit how things look later. Stats are funny. They can fuel the machines that make us believe who is good and bad, but they don't play the games on Saturdays. Week 7 is still pretty early. It will be fun to see where things land in December.
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Comments
Well Put
I’m not the kind of guy that gets too worked up about which conference is the greatest but it is tiring to read the same old drivel from ESPN.
But.... but.... The computers don't know how FAST the SEC is!
They can’t measure ESSEEEESEEE SPEEEEED!
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 18, 2011 3:37 PM CDT reply actions
And they can't measure the PASSION of the SEC fans!
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
this may amuse y'all
I had an 30-40 minute oral presentation to give in a class a couple weeks ago, but only 25 minutes were left when I started. So I opened by saying that I would attempt to move through the argument with ESSS EEEE SEEE SPEEEEED. At least one person booed.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The bad teams are bad
But I think perception comes from 2/3
Alabama and Arkansas would smoke Nebraska and Michigan State
Oklahoma State and Texas A&M would beat Nebraska and Michigan State
The public doesn’t agree here, but I’d bet on Oregon and Arizona State to beat Nebraska and Michigan State.
A large part of this is because I’m not a believer in Michigan State (BlogPoll ballots by team says I was their lowest vote). I find Nebraska to be a legit top 15 team, but they can’t compete with the strong #2s that we see in the SEC, Pac-12, and Big XII. So everybody else (by “everybody,” I mean “everybody except the ACC and Big East”) has a strong #2 who looks like a legitimate challenger to the dominant team. Nebraska, while a fine team, just isn’t coming close to serving that role. I’m actually not sure how much the #3 plays into public perception, but it does play into my own.
$.02 from SEC country.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 3:37 PM CDT reply actions
Alabama and Arkansas would smoke Nebraska and Michigan State
Alabama, probably.
Arkansas? The same Arkansas with and 82nd ranked rushing attack? The same Arkansas that yielded 28 points to Troy?
I don’t know. I think that’s a tossup. I’ll tell you this much, if the game were played up north, I don’t think they’d do well. The winds don’t favor 4-5 wide receiver sets this time of year.
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 18, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Other conferences smoking Nebraska/MSU
That plus the fact that A&M has the special talent of blowing any lead, no matter how large. I think Nebraska and MSU could beat them.
Boiler Up, Go Blue
I meant to set that up as Nebraska vs Okie St and A&M vs Michigan State
sorry if that was unclear. Nebraska and A&M, in my mind, is a tossup.
I think I’m just down on Michigan State. They had one brilliant game early last year, but what else have they done to suggest that I should expect them to beat top fifteen teams? Beaten a couple overrated Michigan teams?
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd take Arkansas over MSU in a heartbeat
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Arkansas' only signature win is Auburn.
Since A&M isn’t very good as we’ve seen. And Auburn might not be that good either.
Auburn defense against FAU: 307 total yards, 108 yards rushing.
Michigan State defense against FAU: 48 total yards, 22 rushing.
Like I said, i think Arkansas vs. MSU would be a tossup. I’m not declaring one or the other the winner. I just think you’re underrating MSU slightly.
And I do believe Alabama would handle both teams. I agree with you on that.
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 18, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
when I said "smoke," I mostly had Alabama in mind
I’m also not a believer in Auburn, but I do think A&M is better than you think. How does it show they’re not any good when their only losses are nail-biters to top ten teams? That SMU team they housed has notched a couple of good wins, and they’re the only ones to pretty well destroy Baylor.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I took a second look at A&M...
And I think the best word to describe them is “fickle”. They strike me as the kind of team that could beat anyone on any given day or lose to anyone on any given day.
I think the thing is, the basis for your argument is that you say Arkansas will “get their points”. I’m not so sure. I know their offense looks good, but they’ve played defenses ranked 119th, 108th, 66th, and 60th in points allowed. The only team with a Top 50 defense they played was Alabama, and they only managed 226 yards of offense, including 17 rushing yards at only 0.9 YPC. Now obviously, Bama’s defense is better than Michigan State’s. But MSU’s defense would be the second-best D they’ve seen this year by a long shot. I think Arkansas would manage at least 24 points against MSU, but I just think MSU could also manage to get 24 or more on the board. Arkansas also has the 95th ranked rush defense in FBS, and so I have no doubts that MSU could pound the ball and control the clock against Arkansas.
Did I forget to mention that MSU has the #1 ranked pass efficiency defense?
Like I said, I’d call it a tossup.
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 18, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
well put
I’d noted that MSU’s strength is their secondary in regards to why they always beat Michigan, but it slipped my mind in dealing with Arkansas. they might match up better than I originally thought.
So the perception of the conference being down is probably due just to not having a scary good #2.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
The SEC is the only conference with two bona fide national title contenders. The winner of the Nov. 5th game is going to be favored the rest of the way, even into January for the BCS title game. No other conference has two teams at the top like that.
But we do have Wisconsin this year. And the more I watch film and read the stat lines, the more I am convinced that nobody on planet earth can develop a scheme to stop that offense right now. I predicted on another post that they"d win 27-20 over MSU this weekend. After watching some more games on my DVR, I think MSU is going to be lucky to hold them under 40. Wisconsin has way too many weapons. I just don’t know how you stop them. Probably one of their unmentioned strengths is their downfield blocking. Their wideouts and tight ends get downfield and stay with their blocks better than any team I’ve ever seen.
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 18, 2011 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I voted OU #3 this week
but there’s something inside me that suspects that LSU and Alabama are the only two teams that can hang with Wisconsin right now. I watched Russell Wilson at NC State, and he couldn’t be stopped even with nothing around him.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Also....
Penn State had more yards against Alabama than Arkansas, and they’re not exactly the Big Ten’s best offense… actually, they’re near the bottom of the Big Ten.
I think you’re overrating Arkansas a little. Texas A&M blew a lead in spectacular fashion. There’s a reason A&M’s defense is ranked 66th in the country: they’re very average.
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 18, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Penn State is the only team to look somewhat competitive against 'Bama
even if it was only for a few series
by ChrisHarrell's_stache05 on Oct 18, 2011 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Which is pretty telling IMO
Because the team was in complete disarray at that point in the season, with the usual exception of the defense. The offense was a steaming heap, special teams were “helmet and leash” special.
Now that Fera is out of the doghouse and off mango rum, they’re crushing punts and kicking field goals. The offense is still a trainwreck, but the coaches at least seem to be slowly realizing that no matter who the QB is, they need to just hand the ball off to one of the RBs.
I don’t think Bama is as strong as people think. I wouldn’t be surprised if they slipped up and dropped a game outside of LSU. Of course, this will be explained by the conference’s depth, whereas a Wisconsin loss to MSU this weekend would be a sign that the B1G blows.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
who are they dropping a game to?
Auburn? Mississippi State? Sure as hell not my Vols. LSU (who still has to play Arkansas) is more apt to drop a non-11/5 matchup.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
And seriously... Arizona State?
The same Arizona State that lost to Illinois? That’s the same Illinois team that got handled by a one dimensional OSU team that got beaten at the Horseshoe by Michigan State. There’s no such thing as the transitive property in sports, but it’s the best we have at this point, and by that logic Michigan State would beat Arizona State.
I try to use SOME degree of reason in my posts. It’s ok if you want to say things like “Alabama and Arkansas would smoke Nebraska and Michigan State”, but I only ask that you provide some reason as to why you believe this.
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 18, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Alabama over Nebraska doesn't need much argument, right?
I just don’t think Michigan State can keep up with Arkansas’ offense. You’re right (or whoever’s right) in saying that if the weather is bad, MSU would probably have a chance to beat them. But in good weather, they’re going to get their points, and I don’t think the Spartans can match them.
Regarding ASU, I’ve been trying to downplay that Illinois game to pretty much everybody I meet. Except for people with whom I discuss gambling, all of whom agree with me. It was painfully obvious before the game that Illinois was the inferior team but would still win. Arizona State had just come off a Friday night OT win (after which they rushed the field) and was looking ahead to Southern Cal, who they hadn’t beaten in 12 years. Who thinks that they were going to travel cross-country and give their best shot? If you’re raising your hand, I don’t know what to tell you. I tried to convince people before the game that Illinois would win, but that it wouldn’t really mean ASU is that bad, that in fact they’d turn around and beat Southern Cal the next week. When all of that happened exactly as I predicted, I figured I had a pretty good read on things. So I continue thinking what I thought all along—that Arizona State is really a very good team but played a very bad game that week. Is there a degree of reason in that?
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Good points for sure.
And I agree with you about Alabama.
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 18, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Beating USC isn't the mountain it used to be
USC was Minnesota’s closest loss of the season. We lost to USC by 2 and got taken to the cleaners by Purdue and lost that one by 28.
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
I'm pretty sure U$C is just poor team overall.
Two point win at home over Minnesota. The same Minnesota team that got waxed by a mythical school in West Lafayette lost on a bye week. Yeah, that’s REALLY helping the Trojans, isn’t it?
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
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by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 19, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
while that's true
beating Southern Cal by 20+ and beating Utah (at altitude) by 20+ aren’t nothing.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 19, 2011 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I see where you're coming from
Alabama as a second best team could probably take out any second best team from the other conferences. So yeah, Alabama would smoke Nebraska… and it might not be that close. As for the Big XII 2/3… I’m not convinced they are as good as advertised. Nebraska could roll with them, but more because we know them. We were built for the Big XII. I believe that now. I have no idea what to think about Stanford and Oregon. Moreover, I have no idea what to believe about the Pac 12 in general.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
by KennardHusker on Oct 18, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Sir...
I can be convinced that Nebraska is far better than they are AND I can be convinced that éclairs are the best dessert pastry in the world
That should require no convincing. Eclairs ARE the best dessert pastry in the world. That’s just science.
Author at Acme Packing Company
In the spirit of this week's Power Poll pop-culture reference....
I paraphrase: “Leave the eclairs. Take the cannoli.”
False.
Eclair > Cannoli every day.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
by KennardHusker on Oct 18, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Parfaits
You know what ELSE everybody likes? Parfaits! Have you ever met a person, you say, “Let’s get some parfait,” they say, “Hell no, I don’t like no parfait”? Parfaits are delicious!
by surfmen93 on Oct 19, 2011 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
There's a city in Iowa, just for you
It’s where all of your kind go to eat Parfaits and do other despicable and French activities. Because of the confusion surrounding your kind showing up in Des Moines, they changed the name from Chateau Herrqui to just Iowa City.
Strawberry rhubarb crisp FTW
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
Very good post.
Here is the problem, though. I completely understand why you used the BCS standings, and I pretty much agree with the B1G bottom tier results. But the thing that keeps the BCS standings from really working is the human nature you mentioned earlier. I am going to use the SEC as a random (not really) example. Right now, when you look at the SEC, it is clearly LSU, Bama, and everyone else. However, it is fair to say a bunch of the middle teams in that conference have inflated rankings right now due to the conference’s reputation. I can not honestly say that I believe South Carolina, Auburn, Florida, and Georgia are nearly as good as their rankings show. But their inflated rankings boost the SEC in the top and middle tiers when they probably don’t deserve it. As for the bottom tier, I am stunned that the SEC is second. Ole Miss, Miss. State, Vandy, and Kentucky (along with Tennessee to a slight extent) range from very mediocre to terrible. Are they B1G bottom tier bad? No. Are they second best in the country? Doubtful.
I think this is great work. However, the flaws mentioned just show how difficult it is to really determine how each conference really is.
True, hard to say who's the best of the worst
I think that whole bottom tier is flawed, but think about it for a second. Right now, I might take Northwestern and Purdue over Tennessee and Mississippi state respectively. Would I take Indiana and Minnesota over Ole Miss and Kentucky? Probably not. Who would I take over those SEC four actually? The Big XII gets a break with not having Colorado, and the Pac takes a huge hit because of it. Still, would you bet money on Iowa State and Kansas over Tennessee and Miss State? How about Pitt and UConn over Tenn and Miss St? I think the ACC gets screwed more than anyone in this exercise because I don’t think Maryland is as bad as their ranking shows. They could roll with the SEC teams, but ends up fourth best…
So yeah, I’m still working on the best ways to assess things. It’s definitely something I did being a Big XII member, and matters even more now being a part of the B1G.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
by KennardHusker on Oct 18, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting take Kennard.
First off, I will say that I believe Bama/LSU are a slight notch above Okla/Okla St. But in my opinion the Big12 is the top conference this year, top to bottom. So in short, my conference rankings this year would be as follows:
1. Big12
2. SEC (although just maybe a step back)
3. B1G (a few nothces down from the above two)
4. ACC
5. Pac12 (look at their OOC, it is pretty horrific, with the majority of their Ws coming against the WAC, who I believe is worse than the SunBelt this year).
6. Big East
I would group the B1G, ACC and Pac12 in the same tier with the Big East a couple notches down.
another severe drop off to
7. MWC (although this is mainly due to Boise St, the rest of this conference is down this year)
8. MAC
9. CUSA (the bottom of the CUSA is really atrocious, worse than the B1G)
10. SunBelt
11. WAC
I thought about the other conferences
I agree with the rankings as a whole. Could go either way on top two. Depends on how good Okie St./Kansas St. really are. I go back and forth on the ACC/Pac12 ranking because I don’t know really how bad/good either are. The Pac12 is screwed in this exercise because USC is not in the rankings (they’d be a top 25 BCS team… computers have them pretty high regardless). I appreciate that you included Non-AQs. I just pretend they don’t really get to raise their hand in class.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
by KennardHusker on Oct 18, 2011 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
the Pac-12 has a pretty sizable bottom tier this year
with Arizona, UCLA, Colorado, Oregon State, and Washington State.
But Cal and Utah have pulses, Southern Cal and Washington are fair to middlin’, I’m still high on ASU, and Stanford and Oregon are legit top ten teams. I’m not sure that comes out worse than the B1G and ACC, although the size of the bottom tier might still knock them back.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I also am using a bit of head to head here as well. The B1G is 4-1 vs the PAC this year. Granted the 4 Ws were all at home, but a terrible Minnesota looked ok vs USC too.
Also, compare the OOC games between the two:
Pac12: 21-13 (618), B1G: 34-13 (723)
Now take the OOC records of the teams they played: Pac12: 91-91 (500); B1G: 128-135 (487). But in my opinion you have to subtract the games they played (I call this OOC-). This leaves the Pac12 at 78-70 (527) and the B1G at 115-101 (532). Basically dead even in this regard. Adding that the B1G was 4-1 vs the Pac12 and the OOC- being almost equal, you almost have to give the nod to the B1G.
More info to support my statement:
Pac12 OOC records: FCS: 7-1; FBS, non-BCS: 8-4; BCS: 6-8 (includes a Cal/Colo game)
B1G OOC records: FCS: 9-1; non-BCS: 18-5; BCS: 7-7
Looks close again, but the 4-1 head to head has to prevail here as well.
Ooooh. So sorry I disparaged you. Your hatred for the B1G is well known around these parts. I don’t think I slighted the Pac12 at all.
Again, I don’t think there is much difference between the 2 conferences this year. I give a slight nod to the B1G this year. Big whoopee. We are all far and away below the top 2 this year.
by talonk on Oct 18, 2011 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the Pac 12's top 2
are, on aggregate, stronger than the B1G’s top two. I think the Pac 12’s bottom two are stronger than the B1G’s bottom two. I also think the middle of the Pac 12 is garbage compared to the B1G. Take from that what you will.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Oct 19, 2011 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Can't argue on the top
Stanford and Oregon are pretty good. Oregon State, Colorado, and Arizona really really suck, though.
Boiler Up, Go Blue
not what I meant
(not sure why I accidentally used old account there). Next week I’m going to publish league ratings, thought I’d link to it here. Wasn’t trying to hate or anything like that.
you definitely have to look at which teams are involved
Wisconsin beating Oregon State at home isn’t much in an argument for conference supremacy. Neither is Ohio State over Colorado. Or Southern Cal over Minnesota.
The only two that actually matched up decent teams were Nebraska/Washington and ASU/Illy (both of which, of course, were won by the B1G at home).
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree. I believe the conferences are very close in OOC performance. But when in doubt, you have to take the head to head as the tiebreaker.
Both have a bad FCS loss. Both have some bad non-FBS losses as well. And typically these are by the worst teams in both conferences as well.
Both conferences are very mediocre this year, and the data above shows that. I just give a slight nod to the B1G. That doesn’t mean squat this year , I know.
Heck, if you had to ask, I’d say almost all of the conferences are down this year. Except the Big12. I think they are slightly better in the past. And I think the MAC is up, but they have been horrid the past few years. So while they have improved, they are still bad.
it's strange that the Big XII is up when Texas is down
seems like a microcosm of the entire existence of the conference
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 18, 2011 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
You think it's strange
I think it’s poetic.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Oct 19, 2011 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions
there is no contradiction here
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Oct 19, 2011 6:24 AM CDT up reply actions
It's hip to hate on the the Big Ten.
Perception is everything, fueled by media commentators and their bias towards the SEC.
Also, we aren’t THAT bad at Purdue……………jeez
Dosvidaniya, bitches! BTFU!
by BoilerUpAT on Oct 19, 2011 5:52 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
agreed
I’m getting a little sick of the conference comparisons. Especially with all the teams moving. I guess all of Missouri and Texas A&M players will be faster now.
What are you talking about? Missouri already has plenty of "speed"... They'll fit right in.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 19, 2011 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
At least we're winning this B1G battle!
Nebraska: Lowest B1G meth incidents since 2010!
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
by KennardHusker on Oct 19, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Because North Dakota laughs
at your lack of population.
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
by Ted Glover on Oct 19, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You guys have almost double what Minny has!
Have we been forgotten already?
Per capita – Nebraska would be at least third:
Minnesota = ~1.89 Meth Labs / million people
Wisconsin = ~4.40 ML/MP
Nebraska = ~9.86 ML/MP
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
I actually saw that after I posted
I saw Michigan and thought Minnesota… damn geography. I recant my title claim. As for per capita, I think that has little bearing on things. Everybody knows you need desolate areas, small town crazy people, and access to the border to cook meth. Didn’t Breaking Bad teach us this?
It is worth mentioning that I am pretty sure this is the fourth or fifth swipe I have taken intentionally or unintentionally. I promise that I don’t hate the Gophers. You should all come down and hang out when the Gophers play hockey in Omaha in February. That will be fun.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
by KennardHusker on Oct 19, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Rooting for Notre Dame isn't normal.
But on meth, it is.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames
Follow @GSchofield50
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 19, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
No wonder the SEC is so damn fast
It’s nothing but one big meth lab once Mizzou joins.
Holy Jesus.
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
by Ted Glover on Oct 19, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Solid work, KH
For me, LSU/Alabama brings everyone in the SEC up, perception wise, and Indiana/Minnesota brings everyone down in the B1G, perception wise.
If Wisconsin gets an opportunity to play any of LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma, or Ok. State, I’ll take my chances. As for the rest of the conference, I like the middle of our conference over the middle of anything the Big XII or SEC ha to offer.
I mean, Ron Zook kicked the hell out of Baylor last year.
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
It's not just Minnesota/Indiana...
I thought that there would be a sizable gap between the bottom two and NW/Purdue would just be kinda sucky in these rankings. They aren’t. Purdue is 90 and NW is 94 which means that 1/3 of the B1G is in the bottom quarter of College Football. 1/6th of the conference is in the bottom tenth of College Football… A major conference should never have four teams in the bottom quarter of football. Maybe one… two… at worst three. Never four. (Pac12 nods solemnly)
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
by KennardHusker on Oct 19, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Very good
Thanks for your work here, KennardHusker. I haven’t paid as close attention to such things as I usually do and had begun to buy the MSM conventional wisdom. Inspired by your work, I did some calculations of my own.
First, for each team, I took the simple average of the following rankings: Sagarin ELO-Chess, Sagarin Predictor, Football Outsiders FEI, and Football Outsiders S/P+. Then I took both the both the central mean and simple average of the top 8 teams from the ACC, B1G, Big 12, PAC 12, and SEC (no need to do the Big East).
Long story short: I found that for this measure, the SEC was the best, B1G and Big 12 were essentially tied for second best, and then there was a big gap to the ACC and Pac 12. Following is my results for each conference, 1st number is central mean, second number is simple average:
SEC: 22.4, 21.7
B1G: 23.9, 24.5
B12: 24.5, 23.8
ACC: 33.9, 34.8
P12: 34.6, 34.8
Perfect!
While I am not great at putting together statistical models, I think its worth at least examining the various ways we judge a conference. I will try to update things as the season proceeds. I like that you jumped into the Sagarin ratings because they are a great method for judging a conference overall. As a body of work, I think the B1G is as deep as anyone, but the bottom four teams are killing it (that and if we did a top two teams, that would get ugly fast). I think maybe a formula that adjusts Sagarin ranking, BCS ranking, and AP so you have modern-day statistical analysis, computer rankings that measure mostly old school stats, and humans who cover football for a living. Probably go something like:
(Sagarin Predictor*0.45)(Average BCS Rank*0.35)(Average AP Rank*0.2)
Sagarin Predictor gets a slightly higher weight than BCS rank because it is a pure points model which matters more than straight win-loss in my opinion. BCS includes the ELO-Chess rankings, so that part is already figured in anyways. AP only gets 20% weight because it is still just humans doing mostly the eye test. Still, in a game where we can figure out how Notre Dame is mathematically better than Michigan but Michigan wins, it helps balance things out. Let’s just call it the ‘good fortune’ component. I might start working on that model tonight.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
by KennardHusker on Oct 19, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I like
Combining ELO-Chess, Predictor, FEI, and S/P+ because they are each doing something different. ELO-Chess looks only at wins and losses, Predictor is looking at points, FEI is looking at drive level stats, and S/P+ looks at play level stats.
I don’t mind considering subjective human evaluation—I’d go with BlogPoll over any other—but they don’t rank all the teams so it isn’t useful for much beyond the Top 25.
I wanna see Ferentz cry.
I like why you use each poll
My original hope was that I created a model that incorporated multiple sources. That’s why I copped out and used the BCS for now. I think that we could combine our rankings for a good overall look. I like the BCS because it has the computers which are more or less old-school stats (not any of the crazier F+, DVOA, etc… at least that’s my understanding) and they skew a little bit towards humans (coaches). I’m all for using BlogPoll as bonus points. For the sake of modeling, it would probably be beneficial to apply points to each ranking (120 for 1, 119 for 2 on down) and do an overall points thing and then rank accordingly. It would allow for using a human poll as well… which is a plus. So we’d be left with something like:
Predictor+ELO-Chess+FEI+S/P+BCS+(BlogPoll*2.4)
I think BlogPoll should be worth less and so instead of doing a normal 120, 119, 118, I would do 25, 24, 23… and multiply by two. That means the top teams are getting a bigger boost exponentially to the bottom teams because usually the top is right and the bottom of a human poll is just throwing people in (60 pts as opposed to 120 for 1 and 2.4 as opposed to 85 for rank 25). This is a ton of math, so I gotta think about this, but I like what your thinking here.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
by KennardHusker on Oct 19, 2011 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I was told when I joined this blog
that no math would be required.
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
by Ted Glover on Oct 19, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I say again
we are winning all our damn bowls this year, and in the national title game when Wisconsin is beating LSU 35-17, you will hear a loud “SEC” chant as the final minutes count down, and ESPN will call it the least classy move of all time, and the big ten will not care
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Oct 19, 2011 4:53 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
If that happened
ESPN would cut away from coverage to show the last 5 BCS championships as “instant classics”.
by surfmen93 on Oct 19, 2011 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They would cut away from the broadcast...
… just as Russell Wilson raises the crystal football and then declares “I left the South so I could learn to play tackle football. Mission accomplished. Oh, and suck it Mark May.”
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 19, 2011 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Rec'd
Because just thinking about that gave me a chub…. and my Bachelor Party is going to be in NOLA the same time as the title game, and I will gladly support Bucky Badger if they meet LSU or Bama.
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Oct 19, 2011 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions

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