Spartan Hail Mary: Where Were You When It Happened?
by Graham Filler on Oct 23, 2011 8:00 PM CDT
in Michigan State
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PrintI was in Section 18, Row 65, Seat 47.
And it was, by all accounts, probably the wildest thing I've ever seen in person. Just like you remember big life events, you won't forget this one quickly.
Let's take a walk through the last minute.
The Drive
I sit with a bunch of what I call "the old guard", four or five guys who've been going to Spartan football games for 32 years.
You've got-
Howie, Mr. Positive Negative ("well, it couldn't get any worse than this, must be something good coming")...Howie is also an encyclopedia of Spartan knowledge, it's unbelievable
Tom, the Game Manager ("if I were the coach, I'd call...")..also hates that plays can be reviewed, although after last night, I'm sure he could be persuaded to changed his mind
Schultz, the Observer ("they say on the radio that Wisconsin has the biggest college O-Line in history, but those big boys are getting tired")
Al, Mr. Aggressive Positive ("THAT was the right playcall and I am happy about it")...also a tremendous details man
Needless to say, they'd all been pulled in a hundred different ways during the game. From down two touchdowns, to up two touchdowns, and now tied. It's pretty much all one can handle. The debate was, at that point, which team would be favored in overtime. I said Wisky, because of their pounding running game.
First and ten, a quick pass to Le'Veon Bell for three, out of bounds. Not a bad starting play. An incomplete and then a perfect low bullet to Bell for a first down. Cousins, by the way, had zero interceptions and was pinpoint accurate all night. Sometimes, stars take over big games...sometimes they don't. He did.
First and ten sees Cousins scrambling ineffectively to the left, a Badger swipes his arm, the ball is on the ground...and a Spartan lineman pounces on it easily. Timeout Wisconsin. Bielema wants the ball back. This, is a good timeout. Crossing route to Cunningham for 12, now it's third and eight on the MSU 36, timeout Wisconsin. THIS IS NOT A GOOD TIMEOUT. Bielema wants the ball back, but giving the Spartans time to regroup and call a sequence of plays in case they get a first down, is terrible. Bielema continues to have end-game timeout issues at Spartan Stadium.
Naturally, the Spartans pick up the first down and after another completion, we're all thinking...field goal. 10 second left, rollout left, Cousins has a throwing lane and -
incomplete, off the fingertips of a tight end
So now, we're just throwing up Hail Mary's.
The Throw, or, Rocket
As far as Hail Mary's go, this was a good one. Cousins and the wide receivers all were on the same page; roll right, throw it deep, get someone at the tail end of the play looking for a tip.
Execution wise, there were some flaws. First and foremost, the immobile Cousins needed more time to heave the ball. He didn't get it and somehow a Badger linemen broke through to get to Cousins. Nevermind, says the rocket laser armed signalcaller, I'll just heave it 55 yards on a perfect line.
I had a terrible view of the play, being on the Tennis Courts/South side of the stadium, but what I did see is this - Once Cousins released the ball, I thought, short short short, no way he gets the ball to the endzone off his back foot with a man in his face...but the ball kept rising and rising...
The Catch
Didn't see it. No one on my side saw it. I'll bet most didn't even see the ball after it bounced off the Wisconsin player. But the North side crowd exploded, everyone else quickly followed suit, the Spartan players rushed the field - and then it all stopped. Both refs waived, no TD, down on the one yard line, and we all tried to figure out what in God's name just happened. Hell I didn't know who caught the ball (Keith Nichol, his only catch) until I got home.
And let's take a minutes to recognize Nichol's strength, which obviously paid off. Nichol, who was extremely unhappy with not being the starting quarterback, added 25 lbs when he moved to WR and put up freakish gym numbers. He could have transferred (again), but didn't, and has taken a backseat in the game plan to Cunningham and the TE's...but hasn't made a public stink about it. So when he was pushing for that little inch, the inch that gave MSU a huge victory, remember all those hours he spent in the gym, remember that effort and self-control he's shown, and celebrate it.
No one quite believed the call would be overturned. We figured the refs, who did a nice job all night (apparently the head ump doesn't like calling holding, so that made for an almost penalty-free game), were just being courteous to the home crowd.
He wasn't. The ref got through about half of the explanation about runner crossing the line before Spartan Stadium exploded. I actually think it was a tad anti-climatic, but the result and the way MSU got that result was so genuinely amazing that who really cares how climatic it was.
A miracle ending, indeed, one as a college football fan I am thankful to witness first-hand. So where were you?
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The refs did a nice job all night.
Yeah, for Michigan State.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
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by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 23, 2011 8:09 PM CDT reply actions
the wisconsin defense...9/18 3rd downs converted.
Surprising Hilary has come out crying foul. You wanted the re match and you got the result.
by spartynation on Oct 23, 2011 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, I'm crying foul. And I couldn't care less what you think about it.
Are the refs the reason that Wisconsin lost? No. They might be a factor. Issues on special teams, Bielema’s questionable late game coaching decisions, two missed gimme TDs by Wilson, a cheap shot that removed Ball from the game for a significant length of time… there were all sorts of things that were factors in Wisconsin’s loss.
But I will never believe that a team like MSU played a penalty free game, especially when I saw several non-calls while watching the game. Not even one blatantly obvious false start was called.
I didn’t know the Big Ten had turned into the NBA.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
there is no other team that I enjoy beating more than UM and now Wisconsin joins the list.
by spartynation on Oct 23, 2011 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, Michigan earned a spot as my third college football team after this
East Lansing isn’t quite up there with Iowa or OSU for me, but they’re on the list.
Except, I actually want to tailgate in those two other places. No real desire to visit MSU.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
And by list, I mean list of hatred
in case it wasn’t clear.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
good keep that hatred going for another year...oops 364 days and counting.
by spartynation on Oct 23, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Might get a rematch before then
Unless we see Nebby in the championship instead of you.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
dont care....we got you at home where we were supposed to lose big.
we killed Wilson’s Heisman, Denard’s Heisman and Wisconsin’s supposed “NC” year.
by spartynation on Oct 23, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
Jesus, why are you so bitter?
The game was a classic, you lost a close one that will go down in the history books as one of the best games of the year, and you very well may get a chance at a rematch on a neutral field in Indy.
The “cheap shot” stuff about the Montee Ball hit is bullshit. I’ve read on Wisconsin boards that one player “held him up” so that he could be hit harder. If you think for one second that any MSU player nearby wasn’t trying to get him down, then you are out of your mind.
Even if you believe that MSU got away with a few calls (holding in particular) you have to admit that the game was a pretty clean one on both sides. It was two teams playing great football, it came down to a nail biter, and your team didn’t win. Maybe they ARE the better team, but this is the way it goes. There’s no need for you to start with personal attacks about our campus and our culture. I grew up two miles away from East Lansing and I can say it is a beautiful campus, one of the most beautiful in the Big Ten, and a great place to watch a football game.
Wisconsin is a classy program, and I have a lot of respect for them. Wish you could return the favor. If you ever feel like changing your mind about that MSU Tailgate, drop me a line, you can have some of my mom’s famous breakfast sausage casserole and a bloody mary before the game.
Good luck the rest of the year.
Who said I'm attacking your culture or your campus?
I said I don’t particularly have a desire to visit East Lansing, and that’s true. It’s not on my list of must-see tailgate locations. But the same can be said about the Bank and West Lafayette. I would say it about Champaign too, but I’ve already tailgated there so I can’t. Chill out. If I do ever end up there though, I will take you up on the offer of the casserole. I always like a good casserole.
I wouldn’t say I’m bitter. Frustrated is probably a better word. Frustrated that my team played the way they did, when I know they are better than that, and frustrated that the game ended so controversially. I’m aware that every MSU fan thinks it ended fantastically, and really, were the tables reversed I’d probably feel the same. But, even outside of my Badgers fandom, I HATE seeing games end on things like that. I would much rather have lost in overtime.
Also, I still think the Ball hit was a cheap shot. You’re not going to convince me otherwise on that one. It’s less about holding Ball up in his entirety, and more about holding his helmet / head / upper body up, and hitting him helmet-to-helmet after he was already down. That’s in addition to the face mask twisting that we’ve already seen from MSU this season.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
That’s in addition to the face mask twisting that we’ve already seen from MSU this season.
by SpartyFever on Oct 23, 2011 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Small sample sizes just slay me
One game. Against our arch-rivals. Whom we sent a poignant, clear message to.
Yup. Gotta be dirty, ’cause we saw it for 60 minutes!
DId you already forget the part
… where you singled out MSU as the place you have no desire to visit? In what way is that not an insult to campus and culture?
sorry
Didn’t read the whole post before replying. I am a bad forum poster.
But anyway, you intended “No real desire to visit MSU” as a jab at MSU, and it would be dishonest to claim that you simply happened to be stating that fact for no particular reason at all.
*shrug* I'll admit that much
but a jab and an insult aimed at a campus’ culture are different things, at least to me.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
I had no idea my desire to tailgate at a particular campus meant so much to you
I’m touched. Really.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
Well, now my true feelings for you are out in the open
It’s more that I hate when sports fans turn to personal attacks in defeat. I admit that yours was pretty mild I might have overreacted, but it’s a bit of a pet peeve of mine.
I’ll be attending my first ever tailgate in Evanston this year to watch the Spartan’s meltdown victory against your other favorite team when I get home from the far east!
Just prepare to be let down
the campus is really pretty, but a tailgate mecca it is not.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
No real desire to visit MSU.
You’re truly, and honestly, missing out. It is a wonderful campus, and absolutely stunning in beauty (especially now with all the colors of the trees).
I drove through campus today on the east side and there were a line of twenty trees with bright red leaves on top and a gradient of oranges until the bottom which was yellow. I love campus in the fall! Only more beautiful time is the thousands and thousands of tulips that pop up during the springtime.
by SpartyFever on Oct 23, 2011 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Take a picture next time
I’d be curious to see.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
A shame, because East Lansing is absolutely gorgeous
Why bother with experiencing a truly beautiful part of America though when the alternative is being bitter over the outcome of a football game?
Good - feel free to not visit our fair campus anytime.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
by Spartan D on Oct 24, 2011 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wisconsin has gotten every conceivable break this season, starting with the acquisition of Russell Wilson
gift wrapped lovingly by Tom O’Brien (under Budmayr this year the ceiling would have been 8-9 wins at best). Throw in the new conference alignment+Ohio State’s troubles, and the stars perfectly aligned for Bucky this year. Even in this game MSU was down its best DE, and Sparty inexplicably fumbled minutes into the game, which resulted in a 14-0 Bucky lead.
Given the myriad breaks Bucky has already gotten, it is hard to understand how a Badger fan could be upset about anything besides the end result of last night’s game.
by AhliBobwa on Oct 23, 2011 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
hey if you want to contend for a NC...where was the special team?
childish on your part to blame the referees.
by spartynation on Oct 23, 2011 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Patently untrue, and sore grapes
The referees were clearly letting the players play. The one call they truly missed was the false start – but the rest was obviously a by-product of the shared philosophy of the umpire crew.
Letting the players play....
except for all the calls on Wisconsin.
That is an interesting definition you have there.
And my grapes may be sour, but they are not sore. Only the rest of me is sore.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
by Hilary Lee on Oct 23, 2011 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Haha, quite fair
I’ve never heard of a sore grape. Until now!
The grounding call was obvious, as were the false start penalties. That makes up for Wisconsin’s penalties. They even didn’t call another intentional grounding later in the game. They missed a false start at the end of the game.
That’s it. There was no conspiracy.
No conspiracy
I’m not quite that paranoid. I take medication for that. ;)
But they did miss some obvious calls. And that was a cause (though, as noted before not a proximate cause) of Wisconsin’s loss.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
How many calls were there on Wisconsin?
Two false starts, an intentional grounding, a hold and a late hit. Off the top of my head. Not exactly hard calls to make either.
This ignores the intentional grounding they didn’t call in the 4th quarter on Wilson, at least one more false start and that strange ruling about the out of bounds player falling on the fumble (haven’t watched the replay yet).
My point is the refs let a lot of things go, the few things they called were fairly obvious (not that I’ll dispute that they missed an obvious false start by MSU on the last drive).
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
by Seer on Oct 23, 2011 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Bwahahhahhahha!!
Bielema is the only one to blame in this loss. Frankly Wisconsin lost but shouldn’t be ashamed. KF got out coached by Sconnie last year. Losing is tough, but the refs weren’t responsible last night. Special teams and timeouts were. Just tip your hat to Sparty.
"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy
by BentNotBroken on Oct 23, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Where was it that I said the refs were "responsible"?
I missed that part.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
seconded..Was that a motion through the house of representatives?
BB timeouts and Wisconsin defense and special teams-Blame them.
by spartynation on Oct 23, 2011 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
having said that the best RB in the big ten has to be Montee Ball.
he carved up for 220 yards in a game…more than over rated Denard has done against us in the past 3 years in 3 games
by spartynation on Oct 23, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I seconded
his comment that the refs were quite beneficial to MSU last night. That does not equal saying that they were responsible for the loss, as I noted above.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
Good
The officials were not causally responsible for Wisconsin’s loss. No sense in complaining, since Wisconsin would have lost even in the absence of any officiating errors. Unless you have a non-canonical notion of causal responsibility? (in which case I’d be delighted to hear it…)
Shall we say it's not a proximate cause
but it is a cause?
Yeah, I just got all lawyery up in here.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
That would be causal responsibility in the philosophical sense
and, quite honestly, I’m good with that. I think that the blown false start call on the final possession amounts to causal responsibility …and I’m an MSU fan. But I also think that the officiating was not out of the ordinary margin of error for a B1G contest. (Well, that might say something about my confidence in B1G officiating generally.)
Either way, that’s a satisfactory answer. Not just lawery, you got all philosophical too!
Everything can be shaped into a cause, particularly when dealing in the vacuum of a sporting event
It all depends on the interpretation. Which is what lawyers are paid to argue!
Although
I should say, I do consider the overturning of the last call to be an officiating error. Sooooo technically if not for that Wisconsin wouldn’t have lost, well at least not in regulation, but it took a lot of other stuff for the Badgers to be in that position in the first place.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
Do you really think the refs would overturn that call
with so much riding on the line if they weren’t 100% sure it was a TD. And besides, who do you think the Big Ten would rather have won that game? The team with NC aspirations? Yeah, probably that one.
by B-Race Miles on Oct 23, 2011 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I have no idea who the conference would rather have win the game
I’m not sure it even matters. Would the refs have overturned it if they weren’t 100% sure? I think so, because I can’t see how you could be 100% sure by looking at the video angles they had to look at for less than 60 seconds. Even after the fact, I’ve yet to see one still or video clip that definitively shows the ball over the goal line. I’ve seen a lot of pictures that indicate that it probably was, if you project where you think the ball should be based on Nichol’s general body positioning, but that’s still a PROBABLY. Which is not indisputable.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
There is still no ball visible in that picture
I do see an interesting red laser shooting out of Nichol’s hand though. He should get that checked out.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
Higher res screenshot:
http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/images/collegefootball/msuscreencap.jpg
CAN YOU SEE THE BALL NOW? IT IS THE COLOR OF BALL, AND IN KEITH NICHOL’S HAND.
I can understand a lot of the other complaints (refs, indisputable evidence, etc), but arguing about this is starting to get a little ridiculous.
by alvion on Oct 23, 2011 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 9 recs
Here's the best view I've seen, from tWWL's Primetime Postgame.
You can clearly see where the ball is, under his facemask and across the plane of the goal line.
If you still can’t see the ball, it’s because you choose not to.
by CPT Hoolie on Oct 23, 2011 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
And most certainly not sore grapes
I AM SUCH AN IDIOT HOW CAN GRAPES BE SORE THEY CAN’T FEEL
/berates self about every typo he ever makes
Sometimes my "grapes" are sore...
after the Notre Dame game for example.
You just gave me the mental image of screaming fruit
Thank you. I will now have nightmares about fruit salad.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
If you zoom in, there is an oblong brown object right under Nichol's facemask.
It’s either a football or the tip of a black man’s elbow. I think logic would dictate which is correct.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
This is one of the most common mistakes about that call
Sooooo technically if not for that Wisconsin wouldn’t have lost
It would have been very different if Wisconsin had the lead there (say, if BJ had dropped the 2 point conversion). As it was, ff the call went Wisconsin’s way, they would have simply had another CHANCE at beating MSU, they would not have won the game.
There are pictures like this one that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the ball DID ACTUALLY cross the goal line. It seems that Wisconsin fans are arguing that even though it REALLY WAS a touchdown, the refs made the wrong call anyway by calling it so. This is perverse to me.
Imagine, for just one second, that the call had gone the other way and pictures like this existed. How happy would you be with that win, KNOWING that Keith Nichol had that ball across the plane of the end zone, HAD the touchdown, but the refs gave the game to Wisconsin? Is that your idea of justice?
Uhm, I still don't see the ball there
I see where I think it could be, but I don’t actually see it.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
OMFG
For the love of god, here is a higher res screenshot. The ball is the little ball colored part in the shape of a ball.
by alvion on Oct 23, 2011 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry
Follow link for higher res:
http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/images/collegefootball/msuscreencap.jpg
by alvion on Oct 23, 2011 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see what I think you are referring to as the ball
But to me it looks like part of #53’s arm/hand. If you’re talking about the shadow to the right of that, maybe that’s the ball. If that is the ball, then it’s a TD.
But it still doesn’t change the fact that to even see that in the first place you needed a high res still frame and supposition. Sixty seconds of shaky camera footage does not show that, and is clearly not indisputable.
As I’ve said before, the way the call came down frustrates me not just because I’m a Badger fan. I get why Spartan fans feel the way they do about it. I feel the way I do, partly because of the loss, and partly because I hate for controversial things to end games.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
by Hilary Lee on Oct 23, 2011 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right
Even KNOWING that it was in fact a touchdown, you wish the refs had called it as not a touchdown.
I understand the ruling, I also am surprised that a ref watching it at full speed could see “indisputable evidence”, but he saw something that made him think that. Maybe he saw the jerk of the arm across the goal line, knowing that the ball was in Nichol’s hand. Whatever it was, IT WAS THE RIGHT CALL BECAUSE EVIDENCE PROVES IT WAS A TOUCHDOWN.
No matter what Bucky fans think, having it called the other way only to later find out that it WAS a touchdown would be a much worse outcome.
I feel like it would have been a worse outcome
if somehow letting the call stand meant that the Badgers won automatically. Like if Wisconsin had a 32-31 lead instead of it being tied.
If it had gone into OT, and later I had seen those pictures that indicated it probably was a TD, I would have felt bad, maybe, but I still would have been okay with the fact that they didn’t have indisputable evidence. That happens a lot in football.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
???
Your denial is more confusing than that of a birther. It was an amazing game, and Wisconsin is an amazing team. On this night in Spartan stadium, however, MSU was the better team. The sooner you admit that the sooner you can stop looking silly.
by StickyGreen on Oct 24, 2011 8:28 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Cognitive dissonance is a hard thing to overcome.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
That's exactly what popped into my head
It’s a touchdown. This kind of a play is exactly what instant replay is for.
‘I LIKE WISCONSIN → I WANTED WISCONSIN TO WIN → IF THE BALL CROSSED THE PLANE WISCONSIN DIDN’T WIN → I BELIEVE THE BALL DIDN’T CROSS THE PLANE’ is the only real psychological explanation.
Or there is the rational outside perspective...
…Ball crossed plane but call on field said no. -—> Refs reviewed, but only correct angle was shaky as hell and even standing right next to a 47in plasma this very anti-Badger fan realized he couldn’t see anything other than a lot of shaking -——> rule says indisputable evidence is needed and perhaps shaky camera doesn’t reach that standard.
I’m glad MSU won and it WAS a touchdown (please feel free to go after anyone who wants to argue that). But when Hilary and other want to point out that the footage available AT THAT TIME was not coming in still frame form and was too shaky to be indisputable, they do have a point.
What if the referees themselves interpreted it as indisputable?
Because, you know, the ball crossed the goal line?
Shaky camera angles be damned, they got the call right. That’s exactly what video review is about!
Circular tautologies are fun!
It wasn’t indisputable. How do I know this? Because people are still disputing it. See how fun that is?
It was the right call, but it wasn’t the correct call.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
If the RIGHT team won, but not the CORRECT team
We’d all be saying, ‘What the fuck?’
So, what the fuck?
They made the right call. The call was correct. They felt it was indisputable. They don’t give a shit if 30 million fans during the course of the following week get off from disputing it. Know why?
Because they made the right damned call, that’s why.
The replay booth has better technology than we do at home.
The frame rate on that video feed is ridiculous – getting a good clear still shot, even with a shaky camera, is not even remotely a problem.
They can zoom in and add lines to the display easily. There’s a reason the review only took 30 seconds or so – they saw the ball obviously break the plane and made the call. End of story.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
Do you KNOW they have better technology?
2 years ago, there were several conferences (not the B1G I believe) who still did not have full HD monitors in all of replay booths. For sanity’s sake, I had always been under the assumption that the B1G did have better technology but had never read anything that confirmed it.
Because of the concequences
I’m willing to believe that they put the best equipment sets on the nationally televised and high-implication games… Nobody cares if they make a wrong call at a NU / MN game that’s already a blowout…
But whooooo! Go Sparty!
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
I think that's a mighty BIG assumption
I’d like it to be the case, but I don’t think that it is.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
They don't bring the replay stuff with them...
…it’s stored in the stadium. As far as I can recall that is. That’s why you had the debacle in ‘09 where the SEC wasn’t using HD on replay and that LSU interception versus Bama that could have affected the game was ruled an incomplete pass. The replay guy was using technology that was worse then drunk Joe Schmoe in his living room.
I honestly don't know any different
If the B1G refs travel, teams travel with all their equipment, ESPN travels with all their equipment, and it’s all taken down at the end of the game anyways, so why would they store 12 sets of top-of-the-line equipment at every location instead of 7-8 sets that travel with the refs? It’s taken down after every game anyways, so it doesn’t make sense to me to have all that money sitting around for 6-8 uses per year.
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
My take was...
because every game is in HD now thanks to BTN they just got it into all the stadiums. It’s not like we’re talking cameras here. We’re talking like 2-4 screens and a fancy DVR/computer thing.
I should step back on the certainty factor though since I can’t find a link to prove what I thought I had heard. So let me toss on the internet fave of IMHO. :o)
No, as recently as 2009
the B1G replay was not available in HD. That piece of info came out in the Indiana game versus Iowa.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Looks like Spartan D replied in another thread...
…with info that as of 2010 the replay booths in the B1G have the freeze frame capabilities. Thanks Spartan!
I have yet to see a single person argue that he didn't get the ball in.
I’ve seen several argue that it wasn’t “indisputable”, but even the homer-est of Badger homers are saying “yeah, it was in, but they shouldn’t have overturned it anyway” instead of “I don’t think he made it”. In other words, no one is disputing that he made it. Is that not the very definition of “indisputable”?
(I wish they’d use a slightly different term, though, something like “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Because if the internet has taught me one thing, it’s that no matter how bloody obvious something is, there’s always someone who will dispute it.)
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Here is the standard for "indisputable evidence"
…from the 2011 NCAA Football Replay Case Book:
The instant replay process operates under the fundamental
assumption that the ruling on the field is correct. The replay official may
reverse a ruling if and only if the video evidence convinces him beyond all
doubt that the ruling was incorrect. Without such indisputable video evidence,
the replay official must allow the ruling to stand.
We know in this case that the evidence was sufficient to convince the replay official beyond all doubt to overturn the call, therefore it was indisputable.
We keep throwing around this term “indisputable” like it means that there has to be unanimity of opinion. That’s simply not the case. The standard is “convincing the replay official beyond all doubt.”
We know in this case that the evidence was sufficient to convince the replay official beyond all doubt to overturn the call, therefore it was indisputable.
To get all techinical, no we do not know that. We can infer or assume that if we trust that a replay official wouldn’t overturn a call with doubt in his mind. But we don’t KNOW that he didn’t have doubt (unless he was allowed to be interviewed and he said as much).
Just felt like being a nitpicky fool. ;o)
So the replay official, had he been interviewed, would have said this?
“I looked at the video, and I still had a lot of doubt, but it was getting late and I needed to get home. So to speed it up I flipped a coin, it came up tails, so I reversed the call.”
Yes, semi seriously...
…it annoys me when people pretend to KNOW what other people are thinking if that person hasn’t publicized their thoughts. You don’t KNOW anything. Sure, it’s a logical inference (and I believe it to be the correct inference) that the replay official felt beyond doubt that it was a TD. But no one here is effing psychic.
I’m not trying to cast doubt on the outcome or say the official didn’t really believe what he called. I’m saying, stop claiming to KNOW what you don’t in fact know.
Here I have to disagree
Which error has the greater potential to damage the outcome of the game: (1) Calling no TD on the field and overturning it on review or (2) Calling a TD on the field and overturning it on review?
I respectfully submit that (2) is far worse, primarily because it would harm the offended party’s ability to compete in OT. The offended party in scenario (1) does not have to face an OT situation.
Alas, something has to be called on the field, which invokes the ridiculous rule about indisputible evidence. But from a rational, competitive standpoint, the correct decision was to send it straight to review, and the proper preceding scenario is clearly scenario (1).
Please explain how the refs were beneficial to MSU last night
Because the game I was watching had a lot of no-calls on Wisconsin holding in the 4th quarter.
OH and spare me the “not saying it cost us the game but still” routine. It’s a very passive-aggressive way of trying to denigrate the outcome of the game.
by B-Race Miles on Oct 23, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Uhm, by missing holding and false start calls on MSU?
That would, at least in one instance, have probably prevented them from converting on third down.
I’m not saying it cost us the game but still, it was a factor in the loss. I don’t care if you think that’s passive aggressive or just plain old aggressive. You may disagree with me, and that’s certainly fine, but it’s what I think.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
Considering what the O-Line for UW was getting away with in 4th quarter
you could say those are a wash. And it sounds like you’re referring to ONE missed false start call. Talk about grasping at straws.
by B-Race Miles on Oct 23, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions
You asked for an example.
I could go through more, but I’d rather not, because I think it’s pointless with you.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
Correction
It’s pointless because it’s POINTLESS! You’re not a ref, and the game is OVER.
by StickyGreen on Oct 24, 2011 8:30 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Given the number of times MSU's D-line got practically hogtied after they broke through the Wisc OL
you’ll understand if I have zero sympathy for complaints about missed holding calls. (The false start, yeah, that was pretty bad, unless the center snapped the ball early and he was the only guy who reacted to it – which is unlikely, but I have seen it happen before.)
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Meant to reply to OBSimH
Saw two ‘blame the refs’ posts and didn’t feel that was fair. Helluva game. Credit Sparty.
"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy
by BentNotBroken on Oct 23, 2011 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Like he said, the refs didn't like calling holding, cuz they could've called about a dozen of them on Wisky.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
in St Louis bar watching the world series and spartan game simultaneously.
I became delirious and almost punched some one in the bar!
This is a game for the ages. Will be shown on the giant screen every year for the next 50 years. The single greatest game probably ever played in Spartan stadium in the last 30 years.
Flutie, Stewart and now Cousins!
I was doing the same split viewing (with some Oklahoma/TTech mixed in)...
…in a Minneapolis bar full of Gopher/Husker fans with a smattering of Spartans mixed in. Husker fans wanted Wisky to win. Gophers fan wanted MSU to win. One of the Spartan fans was too drunk to form coherent sentences. Made for a wild end to the day! So much so that I didn’t realize Pujols’ insane stat line until I got back to my hotel and saw the ESPN ticker.
What St. Louis bar?
If it’s a Big Ten hangout, I’ll check it out.
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
still amazed that the play was overturned
cant see where the ball is if it brakes the plan. but i assume from projecting where he was holding the ball it was over
by Delaware Boiler on Oct 23, 2011 8:13 PM CDT reply actions
ahem
Please see copious examples in comments above.
hey i posted first
even with those pictures. i dont see the ball, i see a shadow that could be the ball. they got the call right in the spirit of the rule but not per the actual definition in my book
by Delaware Boiler on Oct 24, 2011 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Dude...
…it’s his reading of the actual rule not some random standard he’s applying. I thought it was a TD when I saw it. As a Gopher fan in Madison I wanted it to be a TD so I didn’t have to live around even cockier Badger fans. But the one good camera angle was shaky as f**k. And the ref isn’t getting still frames. And the rule does say “indisputable evidence”. So yea, a reasonable person could look at that and think that they didn’t have enough to overturn it at the time they did. I’m glad they did, but hear the words of someone who hates the Badgers and thus is happy for you…Take the W and chill the f**k out already.
Actually, the guys in the replay booth can get still shots, and zoom in very easily.
They’re not limited to what we see on ESPN.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
Was in Section 19
Which, like your seats is on the opposite side of the field from where Nichol caught the ball.
Nobody in our end really knew what had happened. You described it perfectly. Complete pandemonium as the Ref announced the call.
I had just got home from the ER
….that’s where I was. My day/night were less than fun.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
Hope everything is OK and you're in good health!
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
I was at a bar in LA.
thinking about how significant this game was. If Wisconsin beats MSU they had the momentum/schedule to go undefeated. This would have sent Bielema’s large melon to one of 2 places——the NC game, or every sports show in America to talk about how his team got hosed by the injustice of the BCS…either way…nightmare scenario for a Gopher fan.
Minnesota fights Wisconsin for 10-15 recruits every year. It’s one thing for Wiscoonsin to go to a BCS game here or there, but a National Title game would have given them Oregon level cred.
Now they are just another decent program. Thank you Sparty. Thank you so very much. You are now unquestionably my second favorite Big Ten program.
Also, FWIW, Dantonio coached the game of a lifetime last night
Dantonio was unreal. He exploited every weakness and tendency Bielema had. He confused the Badger D with shifts and sneaky plays at the perfect times (that end around TD run was a thing of beauty. Or how bout that play when he snuck his TE out in the flat to the left, but flooded all the other WRs to the right. Then the TE turned ran upfield, and was open 20 yards upfield behind a CB who never even saw him.)
Dantonio owned Bielema on Special Teams. I mean, blocking a FG and then shortly afterward following it up with a Punt Block TD?!! That Punt Block was crazy. Somehow that guy was never even blocked.
And defensively Dantonio did something no one else has done this year. He made Russell Wilson uncomfortable. The Spartans managed to get pressure without leaving guys wide open. They managed to slow the run enough, and get enough TFLs to force Bucky into tough long yardage situations.
This was the best coaching performance of the year so far by any BCS level coach. Congratulations Sparty! You’ve got a Big Ten title level team and a coach who is the real deal.
by AhliBobwa on Oct 23, 2011 8:25 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Dantonio did coach a nice game...
….but the Badgers helped out a lot.
The blocked FG was a low kick due to a bad snap/hold.
The punt block…..I don’t know how you let a guy come untouched RIGHT UP THE DAMN MIDDLE!
Spartans D definitely rattled Wilson to the tune of 2 INTs, 1 intentional grounding in the end zone (and another that wasn’t called in the 4th), and he missed a couple wide open receivers due to pressure. I was really impressed with the way Wilson brought the team back, and he showed in the 4th Q how good he is.
Ultimately, it’s a game of inches, and the Spartans had 6 more inches than the Badgers on Saturday night.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
by Spartan D on Oct 24, 2011 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
...... >.>
“The Spartans had 6 more inches than the Badgers on Saturday night.”
Snicker.
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Oct 24, 2011 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
In the Oklahoma student section
Had OU been up against Texas Tech, there would’ve been WAY more celebrating, but they screwed the pooch and lost too.
Watching that replay on the jumbo tron was amazing…
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
In China!
I was in town called Dali in Yunnan province, China, watching an illegal stream on my laptop in my hostel room bed, surrounded by Chinese locals and European backpackers who could not understand why I was nearly foaming at the mouth. My stream cut out in the last 30 seconds of the game (!!!) but I managed to get Blaha on the radio to hear the pandemonium at the end.
Last week I watched the Michigan game from a VERY remote Tibetan town called Litang. They turned off the wifi at 11pm there so I had to sneak downstairs in my socks, past a sleeping old Tibetan lady, to plug it back in to watch the game silently from my bed. Now that’s dedication!
by alvion on Oct 23, 2011 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
dedication, indeed
i salute you. but why are you in china during college football season? there has to be a rule against that.
Show them Ohio's here.
by slidingscrapes on Oct 23, 2011 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
well...
I’ve been traveling Asia for a year, so I had to miss either this season or last. I was in a hotel in Vietnam during the debacle against Bama last year in the Capital One Bowl, so sometimes it’s nice to be able to escape. :D
That being said, I’ll be home for the last two games, and already looking for hotels in Indianapolis in early December. :D
You get a rec for dedication!
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
I was in Washington
watching the last half with an Oregon Ducks blog. The thread exploded in all caps as I cheered and laughed in my apartment while I watched the jubilation brought about by the ref’s call.
15-yard penalty for my avatar. /Pereira'd
Student section
Perfect description of the live reaction to it. I saw a Wisconsin guy out-leap everyone, the ball bounce and then a second later everyone in the North end going nuts.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
In my room at St. Norbert College.
That was, by far, the most devastating moment in the history of my 20 year fandom. I’m surprised there aren’t holes in my walls. I spent the next hour and a half wandering around campus in a confused and depressed daze. That being said, that was one amazing finish. I just hate that my team had to be the one to come out on the losing end.
When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back. Get Mad! I don't want your damn lemons what am I supposed to do with these!?!
I understand how upsetting it is to miss out on the NC
… but then again, I’ve always been more of a Rose Bowl guy anyway (maybe because MSU hasn’t been an NC contender since my parent’s were in school).
It’s better to have a good game with Stanford in the Rose Bowl than to get raped by LSU in the national championship anyway.
PS: The loser in Indy is likely to play the loser of LSU/Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. That is going to be much more difficult than playing the winner of Oregon/Stanford.
See you in Indy!
I think it's better to be snubbed as a one-loss
than as an undefeated, which, looking at the way things are in the BCS, is probably what would have happened.
At least this way I have something to blame it on other than computer formulas.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
I think a Stanford vs Buckeyes/Spartans Rosebowl game would be epic
All three of them have some of the most intelligent, well respected QBs in the nation leading a VERY physical team. Cousins isn’t in the same league as Luck or Wilson in terms of playing ability, but the similarities between the teams are very strong (Stanford just put up like, over 400 rushing yards against Washington this weekend).
I'd love to see a Stanford / Wisky rose bowl
One of my good friends is a Stanford alum. We’d have a blast watching it if she’s in town. Or talking about it online if she’s not.
Off Tackle Empire - Ruling over the Big Ten since 2008.
My face if we played Oregon in the Rose Bowl ---> :-D
My face if we played Stanford in the Rose Bowl —> D:
Stanford’s really, really good.
A dash before and after
e.g., – strikethrough -
If you take out the spaces makes strikethrough.
The more you know.
Cousins isn’t in the same league as Luck or Wilson in terms of playing ability
I’ll argue with this assessment…..Cousins is a different player than both of those guys (lacks the mobility), but he’s a pretty damn good passer.
He outplayed Wilson head-to-head
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
"He outplayed Wilson head-to-head"???
You seem to be suggesting that the play of Cousins somehow affects the play of the opposing QB. If not, this statement is absolutely meaningless. And, you did a less than convincing job arguing against the original statement.
Doubtful.
I think he was suggesting that — while on the same field, during the same game, in the same weather/stadium/etc. — Kirk Cousins threw footballs better than Russell Wilson did.
So, y’know, the statement isn’t exactly meaningless. Michigan State’s defense might be better, but not enough to whole-heartedly say Wilson would have had a better game against a Badgers-like defense. And sure, it might be small sample size, but using a sample size filled with mostly bad defenses doesn’t help Wilson’s case either. This might be the only data point we have to go off of and Cousins was better.
I’m not sold that he’s a better QB necessarily, but to say that he IS doesn’t strike me as a preposterous thing to say.
by The Birchman on Oct 24, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
They're playing against two completely different defenses and with completely different offenses
The only way you can truly say one person outplayed the other head-to-head is if there were two people competing directly against one another. While Cousins and Wilson were in fact competing against one another, they were doing so as part of a team.
When Rafael Nadal beats Roger Federer, he outperformed him head-to-head. When Kirk Cousins has a better game than Russell Wilson, he simply outperformed him given the circumstances.
Nitpicking, yes. But it’s also true.
I don't have any disagreement with this.
And, as I mentioned above, I actually think Luck and Wilson are better.
I guess we’re sort of arguing different things. I’m under the impression that head-to-head was used loosely and is only meant to imply that in the one game in which the two QBs in question played on the same field at the same time, Cousins was better. The other side of that coin is that head-to-head literally means one vs. one, where either can affect the other’s performance.
As you said, nitpicking, sure. But from what I can tell, Ben T is only doing said nitpicking because he believes Wilson is the better quarterback. He’s a Wisconsin fan, I’d expect him to. I just took exception to the fact that, rather than argue WHY Wilson is a better quarterback, he wanted to argue semantics in attempt to make Spartan D and his conclusion look silly.
by The Birchman on Oct 25, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, wow, I didn't think of that
Of course it’s not meaningless. Same weather, stadium, and don’t forget same etcetera (that’s a big one). I can’t believe all of this esca — wait, hold on….no, still meaningless.
The fact is the original statement that Spartan D was attempting to refute is absolutely true — by any measure Cousins does not hold a candle to the likes of Wilson and Luck (notwithstanding his “head-to-head” win). I can appreciate the fact that you don’t really have a point of reference because you probably have not watched Wilson or Luck much. I don’ t really have any motivation to prove it, so I won’t. You can chalk it up to my opinion and revel in your win.
So let me get this straight...
Your argument is, quite literally, “Cousins doesn’t hold a candle to Wilson because I fucking said so.”
You’re nit-picking an argument Spartan D made based on your interpretation of what he meant by “head-to-head.” I gave a separate interpretation, implying that in this case, they were both on the same field, we got to see them playing at the same time, and on that night, Cousins was better. For all intents and purposes, that’s a valid point and I even addressed all the drawbacks of such an assessment. Your response?
“You don’t know what your talking about, man. I DO! I KNOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT! WILSON AND LUCK ARE BETTER! I could totally prove it but I won’t.”
Um. Alright. Well-played?
by The Birchman on Oct 25, 2011 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions
The only argument I was making
was that it is meaningless and completely not valid to talk about head-to-head competition between quarterbacks. No matter what similarities you would like to trot out, it doesn’t change the fact that the two QBs do not compete directly against each other. I was merely expressing my opinion about the original statement — and, apparently you agree with my opinion.
One comment
For all intents and purposes
First of all, Wilson does not hold a candle to Luck
So stop putting them together.
Second of all, Cousins clearly holds a candle to Wilson. That candle is in the shape of an ass-kicking. And, while he may not have had any direct involvement in the ass-kicking Wilson took, that’s the nature of football.
Another very easy argument is, switch Cousins and Wilson for the first six games of the season. I bet Cousins would have significantly outperformed Wilson. Know why?
Wisconsin didn’t play against jack shit.
Section 108, Row 25, Seat 34
It’s amazing that I know that by heart since that’s the first time I’ve ever sat there. But something tells me I’ll never forget that info.
Games I’ve seen at Spartan Stadium over past four years:
- 2008 Wisconsin game with game winning FG w/ :01 left
- 2009 Iowa game with McNutt TD as time expired
- 2010 “Little Giants” game against ND
- 2010 Huge 4th quarter comeback against Purdue on Senior Day
- 2011 This.
Suffice to say, I’ve been spoiled as a fan of college football. That’s a lot of lifetime memories in a short period of time.
Camp Arifjan, Kuwait
Colloquially known as “Camp Arif-jail” for various reasons.
I wasn’t even watching it on TEE VEE. I had GameCast open and The Only Colors’ game thread and was talking to my wife on Skype while she watched the game trying to figure out what the heck just happened.
by CPT Hoolie on Oct 23, 2011 9:44 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
You take care there buddy.
very proud of the military personnel for their service.
by spartynation on Oct 23, 2011 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ditto
Come back soon, come back safe.
by Bmore_spartan on Oct 23, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions
amen
Glad to have you on ote
Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.
by Graham Filler on Oct 23, 2011 10:24 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
I know we can't post links to illegal streams on here...
… so I won’t. But there must be some leeway for our soldiers overseas right?
I’ve been out of the country the whole season, and I watch all the games online with a program called streamtorrent. You can get stream torrent links to all the games on the first site that comes up with a google search of “firstrowsports” (see mods? I didn’t paste a link). For each game, the last of the links is usually the StreamTorrent one, with instructions on where to download it.
Good luck and come home safe, and don’t miss any more college football!
The title of this post brought this to mind
Where were you, when they built a ladder to heaven?
by SpartyFever on Oct 23, 2011 10:46 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I was at in San Francisco at a Bay Area MSU alum game-watching party at a sports bar
There were at least 50 of us, and we rocked that place.
We had 40+ at the MSU bar in Kansas City...
…it was a similar scene.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
In Denver at my neighborhood bar
Having a great back and forth with Wisconsin fans the whole game.
Unlike Arro, I didn’t go to the Denver alumni bar… I was afraid we would go down big early (which did happen) and then there would be 200-300 depressed/angry fans in the same bar..no fun. Years of adjusting expectations to avoid getting emotionally crushed has turned me into a bad fan!
200-300 people show up for the Denver group?
that’s pretty impressive. I’m not sure how many come to ours- it was my first time.
Very surprised at the major sour grapes
in these comments.
Denials of the TD, random accusations of cheap shots (that I’ve heard nowhere else), and unfounded complaining about the refs… reads more like Mgoblog.
by Stuka on Oct 24, 2011 5:29 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
It's a touchdown
It was clear to me when it happened and even more clear on replay. Those with sour grapes need to deal with it.
This is an official message from a 3rd party Purdue fan with reason to be prejudiced after MSULaxer wrote us off at 1-11.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
by BoilerTMill on Oct 24, 2011 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, that was a pretty terrible prediction - but I think he rescinded it after all the screaming of bloody murder
Boilers look like they could upset about anyone in the B1G, given the right circumstances.
Yep
I’m actually glad we don’t play them, much happier with IU as our protected rival.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
In Madison, WI
At Madhatters. Those Bucky fans sure are classy…NOT. They made the U of M fans last week look like saints. Notice how we didn’t rush the field? We were jubilent, but acted like we’d been there before…oh wait we have – last year. The Badgers are a great football team, and the majority of their fans are just fine, but the bad ones are downright disgusting.
by StickyGreen on Oct 24, 2011 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
In the student section
didn’t see what happened on the play just saw the entire other side of the stadium go insane then complete silence for 30 seconds, and then the rest of the night was kinda a blur…
by chuggingspartan on Oct 24, 2011 2:09 PM CDT reply actions
At Dreamland Barbeque in Birmingham.
I asked them to turn off the World Series to tune into this game (I am smart enough not to ask them to turn off a Bama/Tennessee tilt tied at 6).
I split a half rack of ribs with a beautiful lady and watched the Spartans win. Doesn’t get much better than that!
Other than, you know, not being in Birmingham.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
by U-God on Oct 24, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Flipping back and forth between that and the Pujols Game
Both were epic, and it was cool to say I was able to see them both simultaneously while having the OTE game thread up while enjoying a Leinenkugels, the pride of Chippewa Falls, Wis.
America, Fuck Yeah!
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
Section 5 Row 64 Seat 54
Most amazing sporting event I’ve attended. Topped the 2006 ALDS Game 3 (not sure Saturday could have topped the 2006 ALDS game 4 had I been present).
You're right.
I was at both.
Nothing will ever top Magglio’s walkoff. But that Hail Mary might come the closest.
by The Birchman on Oct 25, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Tuna lost to ND..
Expect another tail whipping versus the loser of the Bama v. LSU tilt
Dikaia Upotheke - Justice Our Foundation
Section 124, right below the press box, north-side 40 yard line.
Saw the ball tipped, had no idea who came down with it at first.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
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