Hayes - Schembechler Trophy
by MSULaxer27 on Nov 14, 2011 4:22 PM CST
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The odds (mine) and a case for each coach after the jump (alphabetically).
Bret Bielema (3-2) PRO: Most everyone believes that UW will win the B1G championship game. It is natural/easy to award the winning head coach this trophy. CON: UW has the talent and was a preseason dark horse to play for the BCS championship. In that light the season can be seen as a disappointment.
Mark Dantonio (3-1) PRO: It was thought that MSU might have a better team than last years B1G co champs but do worse due to a harder schedule. Two weeks to the end of the season and the Spartans are in control of their own destiny to make it to Indy. If MSU wins the B1G game, I think Dantonio wins it. CON: Road wins over OSU and Iowa non withstanding, MSU did not seem very competitive in losses to ND and NU-L.
Kirk Ferentz (25-1) PRO: A rebuilding season was expected in Iowa City this year. Ferentz has his team bowl eligible and, until last week, in control of their own fate in the Legends division. CON: Lost to Minnesota. Minnesota might not get another B1G win this season.
Luke Fickell (10-1) PRO: Another coach who would be guaranteed to win if his team makes (and wins) the B1G game. Fickell took over after the tire fire of OSU's off season and has them in a position to win the Leaders division (with help), bowl eligible and looking at a chance for an 8-4 regular season. CON: Lost at Purdue, road wins are tough to come by in the B1G this year but OSU will arguably always have the most talented personnel in the B1G. He should have had his charges better prepared for this game. The collapse at NU-L doesn't help his coaching reputation either.
Pat FitzWizard (20-1) PRO: Righted the team ship after a dreadful 5 game schneid and scored the inexplicable upset of NU-L (maybe his wizard powers only work against corn based schools). CON: @PersaSTRONG never worked out the way it was supposed to. Making it to a bowl and breaking that awful streak might be all he can hope for. I can't see the COY coming from a 7-5 or 6-6 team.
Brady Hoke (8-1) PRO: If the chips fall for the Wolverines and they land in the B1G game then I think this is a lock. Even still he has taken the ill-fitting recruits of Rich Rod and has his team in position for no worse than an 8-4 record (and an outside shot at a BCS at large berth). CONS: While the comeback over ND might be their "signature" win, UM has beat the teams they are supposed to and lost to the teams expected. Nice season for the men from Ann Arbor, just not enough to win Hoke Coach of the year (skipping UW and PSU probably helps the record and hurts his cause).
Danny Hope (15-1) PRO: I predicted them to finish at 1-11 (/PurdueMatt'ed) and Hope has his team still (however faintly) in the Leaders race. Purdue should reach bowl eligibility for the first time since 2007. CON: Purdue lost to Rice. I think the best award Hope will get this off season is the chance to come back and coach the Boilers for another year.
Jerry Kill (75-1) PRO: Has had his team more play competitive games as the season has worn on. Kept a rivalry trophy. CON: Minnesota has been awful at times this season. Lost to a I-AA school. He needs more time to get his own personnel in place and then we'll see what happens.
Joe Paterno/Tom Bradley ( ∞ -1) PRO: Had the scandal not broken and PSU went to the B1G game you could see the conference leadership giving this award to Paterno as a send-off/career capper. CON: As shown today the conference wants to put as much distance between itself and PSU as possible.
Bo Pelini (5-1) PRO: Pelini has the Huskers in a position to go to the B1G game (with help). A 10-2 season and a BCS bowl are still in the realm of possibilities. Survived a season of Taylor Martinez arm punts without disemboweling him on the sidelines. CON: Preseason favorite to win the Legends. Lost at home to NU. It's tough to imagine a scenario for Pelini to win this over other coaches with more history in the B1G (unfair as it may be) without at least getting to the B1G game.
Kevin Wilson (1500-1) PRO: His team has played competitively this season. Held UW to 59 points after last season's debacle. Beat a I-AA team. CON: Beat a I-AA team and no one else.
EL Zookerino ( ₪Ộ∩۩Ю - purple) PRO: The Illini raced out to their best record since 1951. Zook and his team looked poised for a memorable season CON: Hasn't won a game since beating IU in week 6. The Ron Zook experience may be coming to a close in Champaign.
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You mean 5 National Championship winner Woody!
The Traitor-Hayes trophy would be the appropriate name for those two.
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
This is ridiculous. The Woody and Bo worship has gone quite far enough.
You don’t take Staff off the trophy. Guy was a legend. You just arguably the most legendary coach of the same era—-Bernie Bierman.
Bierman won 5, count ’em, 5 National Titles in one 8 year span—-including the only back to back to back titles in major CFB history.
Bierman should be on the trophy next to Stagg.
For real OTE writers, you put up this gross Woody/Bo thing, now dig up Ted Glover or CHadnudj (they can actually write)
and state the case for Bernie Bierman. Unless you need some help, in which case I’d be happy to do it for you.
The case is in the eye of the beholder
Bierman won 5 NC in 8 seasons, but back in the days when most voters would never see the team play. He won 1 without winning the B10 that year. The game has also changed tremendously since WWII. There was much less competition back then, as with Yost.
Woody and Bo coached much longer in the B10. They share the B10 record for conference titles with 13 each. They elevated the B10 nationally with the 10 year war. Bo has the best B10 winning percentage ever with Woody 3rd. Woody has the most B10 wins ever with Bo second. Woody has the most wins while a B10 member with Bo 3rd.
Dude
the game has ALWAYS been crazy competitive. The reason why the Gophers play Michigan for the Lil’ Brown Jug is that teams had to bring their own water—-otherwise the home team was liable to spike the water.
That’s hardcore.
The true arms race started in the 70s. But don’t act like what happened before then is irrelevant. That’s the argument of every single old sportscaster
‘What really matters is anything I can personally remember happening’
Less competition does not mean not competitive
But the reality is there were fewer teams that could hope to win, the rules were different, the south wasn’t integrated, etc. It was a different game. Don’t act like it wasn’t.
If you don’t want to ignore the olden days, then Yost trumps Bierman easily.
Dude you are delusional. Yost is Bierman's peer. He does not in any way trump him.
Dude won 1 more National title. That’s it.
You keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night
More National Championships
More NCs in a row
Much higher winning percentage (0.888 to 0.716)
Much higher B10 winning percentage (0.796 to 0.659)
More total wins
More B10 wins
55-0-1 streak
550-0 total season scoring
Invented linebacker
Helped form the first bowl game
And you don't think 5 National Titles in in 8 years didn't elevate the league?
You don’t think years of Bronko Nagurski helped the league? Bronko, who was, in Red Grange’s opinion, the greatest player of all time?
You don’t think the rivalry between Minnesota and Michigan during that time helped the league? In 32’ in the last game of the season, with all the marbles on the line, Michigan squeaked out a win 3-0 against the Gophers. Wolverines went on to win the National Title.
In 33’ undefeated Michigan and Minnesota teams played to a scoreless tie. Michigan won another title.
The next year the Gophers got revenge with a 34-0 blowout of the Wolverines on the way to an undefeated season and National Title. Minnesota rattled two more National Titles in a row. That Minnesota-Michigan rivalry was huge back in that era.
If it's named after Woody and Bo
It has to go to whoever is most likely to lose the Rose Bowl that year. Nothing else would make sense.
by br27 on Nov 14, 2011 5:47 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Ima say
Dantonio. Maybe he gets it because of a lucky bounce v. Wisky….Maybe he gets it because of the weakness of OSU. But he’s about to preside over a 10-2 team that was expected to be…7-5 or 8-4.
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HOMERRRRR.
Also, you just said you don’t want it to be the Heisman for coaches but then go and pick both of the likely championship game coaches. Not that they necessarily don’t deserve it because, hey, they’re in the championship game, but that’s like saying I don’t want it to go to any BROZ and then picking Fickell to win it.
by Good Ol' Oakley on Nov 14, 2011 7:22 PM CST reply actions
I hope it doesn't just act as a coaches award for making to/winning the championship game.
I however, do not have a vote in the matter. The odds I propose are what I feel the league might do, irrespective of my wishes on who should get it.
In certain instances it will go to the the championship game coaches because they, you know, did the best coaching job on the season. If Hoke gets his team to the B1G game after the last 3 seasons of RichRod, how could you not consider him the best coach in this season.
Can you make an argument that would support another candidate as a better odds on favorite?
As you say, this award almost always goes to the school that does better than expected. The only teams that fit that criteria are Michigan, MSU, and Purdue (and Penn State…). Dantonio won last year. If Purdue wins out, it goes to Hope. Otherwise, it’ll go to Hoke.
If UM finishes at 8-4 after a 7-5 season last year (and after starting 6-0) I can't see it going to Hoke.
If they finish at 10-2 (and get selected as a BCS at large) for sure Hoke is your man.
Holy fucking god, NO!
Hope is the WORST coach in the B1G (non-Zook division)! His game management is awful, his 3rd-down defense is a joke, and his offensive system consists entirely of bubble screens. He’s been bailed out for another year by the general mediocre-to-awful-ness of most of the conference this year. PLEASE don’t compound that by giving him a COY! Burke will never fire him then!
"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"
by Boiler Bandsman on Nov 14, 2011 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
Correction
CON: @PersaSTRONG never worked out the way it was supposed to
Uh, you mean the same PersaStrong who is leading the B1G in passing yards and completion percentage, is 2nd in QB rating, and 4th in TD passes and total offense?
Look, lay plenty of blame on the Cats’ defense, or playcalling….lord knows there’s plenty to lay around.
But Persa? He’s been BETTER than advertised, even heavily dinged up BEYOND his Achilles….
Persa not playing the first 3 games was not advertised
They went on with the Heisman campaign even though he was not ready to play. That is the main reason that many people say PersaStrong was a failure.
Manager at BT Powerhouse a Big Ten basketball blog
@babaoreally
by babaoreally on Nov 15, 2011 9:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Fair enough...
If you’re saying the ad campaign was a failure, fair enough (although it did get people talking about Northwestern and built buzz for the program, and ticket sales are ahead of last year’s pace).
But Persa himself when he’s played? He’s been phenomenal. Obviously it would have been nice to have him for the first three games (when Northwestern still went 2-1, but probably would have been 3-0 with him), but he’s been lights out this season otherwise.
This.
Persa has never been in the Heisman discussion (no matter how he is playing now). Dropping a game to Army didn’t help matters either.
For the record Persa and NU scare the bejusus out of me for that match up in two weeks.
I think this is the sort of year when it almost has to go to the winner of the CCG.
There isn’t a real underdog team that rose to the top (those usually get the awards in all the professional sports). All the top contenders have a relatively equal amount of disappointments (Bielema – losing twice with a possible NCG contender, Dantonio – losing to that team from South Bend and getting absolutely dominated by a Nebraska team that went and lost to Northwestern at home the next week. Pelini – LOST TO NORTHWESTERN AT HOME, crushed by Wisconsin).
If not for Sandusky, it would probably be a given that it would go to Paterno.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
Maybe not this year, but Kill will win this award in the next three years
Mark it.
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
by Marshmoose on Nov 15, 2011 7:59 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe not this year?
I guess you were just using it as a figure of speech, but the idea that Kill has any shot at all is this year is pretty funny.
Manager at BT Powerhouse a Big Ten basketball blog
@babaoreally
by babaoreally on Nov 15, 2011 9:56 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's kind of a battle of attrition, so I wouldn't count Kill out at this point
FWIW – We’ve gone from losing to a Div-II team and the worst FBS team from 2010 and our coach in the hospital with his seizures to beating Iowa, Playing MSU tough at MSU and whatever we salvage from Illinois and Northwestern. It’s a hell of a lot more of a positive jump than any other coach has had, based on preseason predictions. Hoke has had a cakewalk, schedule-wise and an argument could be made for Hope at Purdue and exceeding their expectations, but nothing has really gone wrong for them.
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
Aside from Purdue, you know, losing to Notre Dame and Rice.
RICE.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
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by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 15, 2011 8:13 PM CST up reply actions
And our #1 QB tearing his ACL two weeks before the first game
Manager at BT Powerhouse a Big Ten basketball blog
@babaoreally
Kill has absolutely no chance
I understand why you are optimistic about Kill for the future, but results-wise, I don’t think that Minnesota has had much of a positive jump this year. They lost to New Mexico St and another FCS team. They beat Miami of Ohio and Iowa in close games. They also played pretty close games with USC and MSU. They’ve lost by more than 27 points four times.
Even if they beat Illinois and Northwestern, it would be insane for the coaching award to go to a coach who won four out of twelve games. I don’t think the award voters are going to say, “We’ll they didn’t win very many games, but Jerry Kill had a seizure and had to go the hospital, so I guess he wins the coaching award.”
Manager at BT Powerhouse a Big Ten basketball blog
@babaoreally
by babaoreally on Nov 15, 2011 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
pretty hard to win COY unless you win
at least 9 games. 8 if 3/4 of your team’s entire starting offensive and defensive backfields were simultaneously knocked out for the year in a freak accident.
Here are the other candidates this year:
Bielima: Then: Overwhelming favorite to win the conference, Now: Struggling to win the division. Still doesn’t know when to shut up.
Pellini: Then and Now: About what everyone expected, minus the loss at home to the other NU
Hoke: Took a 7-5 team to 8-2 (with Nebraska and OSU yet to play) on the softest B1G schedule.
Dantonio: Then and Now: About what everyone expected. Front runner in my eyes, FWIW
Wizgerald: Then: Picked to do well once Persa got back online. Now: Persa’s struggled to play, but they’ve done a good job filling in and getting good wins. Another coach I wouldn’t be surprised to see win it.
Kill: Then: Most rational people expected 1-3 Non-con wins, then maybe a win in B1G play. Midseason: [Movie trailer for Titanic 3D here]. Now: Overcame a ton of obstacles to become a competitive team, can no longer be beat by High School teams, surprise win vs. Iowa.
My point isn’t that he’s going to win it this year, my point is no other coaches in the B1G have proven that they deserve it any more. In the coming years, Kill has a lot easier path to the top, and based on the team’s current trajectory, there’s a good chance we’re competitive in the B1G in the next 3 years.
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
Fickell
Just to see the look on Tressell’s face after being passed over for so many years despite winning a zillion conference titles.
by GTom on Nov 15, 2011 9:54 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
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