Meyer's Biggest Barrier To Success At OSU?
by Ted Glover on Nov 28, 2011 4:27 PM CST
in Ohio State
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PrintNow that it's officially official, we step back and try and take in what this means. If you're Greg Doyel, you've practically gone into the bathroom and rubbed one out; if you're Florida fan, you're rummaging through the storage shed for a pitchfork and a torch. And if you scour the Internet for all of about 11 seconds, you'll find opinions that run the gamut between the two.
While I am geeked at the thought of Urban Meyer stalking the sidelines in Scarlet and Gray, I'm not jumping into the Zealot Wing of the OSU pool and think that the next three BCS titles are OSU's by default. Let me be clear about a few things:
1) Urban Meyer is a great, great coach, and he automatically puts OSU back near the top, both in the conference and nationally.
2) Meyer is a ridiculous recruiter, and will bring premier talent to the Buckeyes.
3) Those two things don't necessarily mean he will immediately bring OSU a B1G title, much less a National Championship.
Over at The Daily Norseman, I do a piece where I include a music video that fits the mood. In my two years of doing that over there, I've never had a more perfect video than I do for this situation and this story.
So, who says you can't go home?
With every step I take I know that I'm not alone
You take the home from the boy, but not the boy from his home
These are my streets, the only life I've ever known,
who says you can't go home
Let's do this, after the jump.
With all the excitement over Meyer's signing, and there's plenty (and count me excited), there are a few things that I think we need to point out, and how maybe, as a fanbase, we need to temper our expectations just a bit while reveling in our collective giddiness.
If you're from the fire-breathing zealot wing of the fan base, you might not like this article, so there's your disclaimer.
I've got a few Michigan fan and/or OSU hater buddies, and none of them like the hire, which means I love it all the more. Once you get through the obligatory smack talk, their reasoning boils down to a couple things:
He might not last five years, and he'll run his spread and his defense as incompetently as RichRod did. Because the Spread can't work in the B1G.
If you're wanting to hang your hat on Urban Meyer not succeeding, there are things that you can hang your hat on, but those aren't it. If those were the two big barriers to Urban Meyer and ridiculous, unbridled success, OSU would be getting ready to go on a run as epic as Tressel's, only with more national championships.
Urban Meyer will probably use Braxton Miller much in the same way that Tressel used Troy Smith and Terrelle Pryor, with just as much success. With 10 guys returning on defense, the Silver Bullets will be back to being a top notch defense, because I am of the belief he will hire a very good defensive coordinator. Meyer is a guy that gets what it means to be the football coach at Ohio State, and will be prepared to play and beat Michigan every year.
No, if anything will bring Meyer down, it will be the collective psyche of the Ohio State fanbase. I was asked how long we'll give Urban Meyer to turn around something that isn't that far off to begin with, and I'm thinking not long at all. As in like, 'Beat Michigan, win the big Ten, and then the BCS title next year Kthxby' impatient.
This is where Jim Tressel's success and legacy could come back to really hurt Meyer...and John Coopper's lack thereof, for that matter. If anyone could keep up with Tressel's BCS and UM streak, it's Meyer, but Tressel was also the recipient of very good fortune his last 5 years in Columbus. There was no conference championship game, Michigan decided to hire Rich Rodriguez, and the added benefit to that was a decided recruiting and coaching
advantage that made the talent gap between UM and OSU as lopsided as it has been in my lifetime. Hoke closed the talent and coaching gap in one year, and winning a championship with the new divisional format is
going to be difficult. The days of losing to Wisconsin and then being co-champion with them and MSU is over.
Add the fact that we could very well see a rematch or two between Michigan and Ohio State in a conference championship game, and a scenario of back to back losses to UM that costs a BCS appearance and possible national championship exists--and will be met with a level of apoplexy the likes we have never seen.
What I mean to say is the OSU fanbase will flip the fuck out.
And this is where the Tressel/Cooper legacies come in to play. Win now, and don't lose to Michigan. Or you're gone. It's bullshit, but that's the way it is. People will grumble if he doesn't beat UM and win the conference
next year, and will be in melt down mode if he doesn't in two years. Will that collective shitstorm run Meyer out of town? I hope not, but you never know.
John Cooper's 2-10-1 scarred us OSU fans as much as Tressel's 9*-1 revived us, and Meyer will have to live with both.
I hope he can., and I hope we allow him to.
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This sure seems like an exciting time to be in the B1G.
Really as good a collection of coaching talent from in the league as has been seen in a long, long, long time.
It remains to be seen who the Illini hire (Leach), but even with that and the IU perpetual rebuilding project, this as deep as a 1-9 that I’ve seen in my lifetime. If Wilson pans out and the Illini hire someone (like Leach) decent we could have the best 1-11 of any of the conferences.
by MSULaxer27 on Nov 28, 2011 5:07 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Leach to Illinois would be awesome
is that wishful thinking, or is there fire to that smoke? I heard he was up for a gig out west. Wash State, maybe?
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
No fire.
I mean from an Illini viewpoint who else would you ask for? If you’re going with a retread, I think he is the best option available. I’m not sure you’re going to hire an up and coming coordinator/MAC/Sunbelt HC who would make a bigger splash than Leach. Give him facilities and support and who knows what could happen.
who you calling a retread!?
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Nov 28, 2011 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Easy Bucky.
Try some reading comprehension. These comments are about who Illinois hires as their next coach. If they hire someone who is on the market, and has head coaching experience, I have heard them referred to as “retreads”. Leach, Erickson, Neuheisel Prince, Gill etc. are all retreads, ie. they coached somewhere and were let go.
Your sainted Urban left UF of his own accord, so by definition, he is not a retread.
seriously.......
AND I’m a BuckEYE not a BuckY.
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Nov 29, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
I think he was making a play on words (as in who are you calling a retard, but replacing that with retread). In other words, a joke.
But back on the sub-topic, I’d love to see Leach come to the B1G though I’m not sure if Illinois is willing or able to open up the pocketbook to bring him there. Though honestly it seems like he’d be a better fit at Purdue, but Hope is still there for the time being.
Aha! Thanks for the clarification.
One of my college roommates said he saw a bumper sticker that said: Purdue football, there is no hope until there is no Hope.
you just went full retread
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Win now, and don’t lose to Michigan. Or you’re gone. It’s bullshit, but that’s the way it is.
It’s not bullshit if it’s well known. it’s not a surprise to anyone that has ever watched and OSU game, or has ever coached/played/etc in one.
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Nov 28, 2011 5:46 PM CST reply actions
Cooper had a lot more than 2 years...
…but at some point, you need to win at least 1/3 of the games against your rival.
Cooper is an example of patience with new HCs, not win or else.
I'm actually surprised that OSU didn't take a page out of that famous Buckeye Steinbrenner's notebook and wait until Saturday to announce this.
You know, to upstage an event they aren’t a part of.
Oh. Kind of like they did today. So instead of the media being focused on the game, and the teams in the game, we’ll hear instead about how UM’s resurgence and the hiring of Meyer have brought back the Big 2 and little 8.
Guess we’ll have to keep winning if we want to stay relevant.
I'd be pissed if I was MSU or Wisky fan
and in years past, no big deal. This would actually be TWO weeks past the end of the season, but things are different now. You have to shore up recruiting classes quickly, or they’ll get poached. And although the inaugural conf champ game is a huge deal for us, there are no national implications, so it’s going to be marginalized to an extent, anyway.
And it doesnt matter who’s playing in the game—unless it impacts who could play for the BCS title game, it’s not covered. Same holds true for ACC and PAC 12 game.
It sucks, but that’s the mentality.
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
by Ted Glover on Nov 28, 2011 6:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Absolutely not.
Big 2 and little 8.
We will definitely hear how it will be the Big 2 and little 10
Wow, sorry MSU being in the championship game isn't a bigger deal nationally.
Try being ranked higher next time?
On the contrary, you should be thanking OSU for getting this over with. I’m serious. If you want the focus to be on the championship game—where it should be—then the only thing you have to be sore about is that it didn’t happen sooner. Until it became official, we were all going to be subjected to Urban this, Urban that rumors that are propagated by the media and the fans, not by the school. Ending the speculation just over 48 hours after the end of our season, and 5 days before the championship game, is just about as good as OSU could have done to be respectful to the current coaching staff and give the championship game its due attention.
Show them Ohio's here.
by slidingscrapes on Nov 28, 2011 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Delany probably had something to do with when the announcement was made.
I’m sure he said something like: “No way will you announce this on Saturday!”
Really?
I mean…really? I hope this was a parody on a cranky MSU fan. Ohio State is supposed to wait on announcing a head coaching hire so that they don’t hurt the fee fees of 2 teams in the conference, including the team in their division that is currently better than them?
WE BEAT THEM!!!!
"You might as well appeal against the thunderstorm."
-William T. Sherman, the Battle of Atlanta
It was sarcasm, hence the all caps.
OSU was bad this year.
"You might as well appeal against the thunderstorm."
-William T. Sherman, the Battle of Atlanta
All caps is sarcasm font?
If I missed that memo I’m beginning to worry that something might also be missing from my TPS reports…
I usually try to use either the all caps, or a well placed exclamation mark.
Sometimes both.
"You might as well appeal against the thunderstorm."
-William T. Sherman, the Battle of Atlanta
Michigan Sucks.
There is no sarcasm attached to that last statement.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames
Follow @GSchofield50
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Dec 1, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
autorec
for truthiness
Show them Ohio's here.
by slidingscrapes on Dec 1, 2011 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
Just like I have no qualms in saying...
…Okie State is a better team than Iowa State. Or that Iowa has a better team this year than Minnesota. That’s why they are called upsets.
Very accurate assessment
of the Buckeye zeitgeist Ted.
The other day chadnudj chastized Buckeye fans for not being more supportive of Fickell and giving him the time to figure out how to steer the colossus that is the Buckeye football program.
Chad, I agree with you. I feel bad that we couldn’t find it in our collective psychology to settle the fuck down. But it became clear to me after the Nebraska game that Fickell was never going to get that chance. Even if he managed to get a five year contract and hire his own coaching staff — there was always going to be a significant portion of Buckeye Nation that was going to continue to tear him down with every loss, whisper about his blown calls and missed opportunities, and bemoan that his players deserve better.
I said it many weeks ago on 11W. Eventually Luke and tOSU would part ways and instead of the love that Fickell feels for the football program, the institution, and its supporters — those feelings would be replaced by bitterness, sadness, and bad memories. That’s the last thing I want for Luke. So maybe Meyer’s hire is for the best.
As to what Ted says above. How long will Meyer be able to tolerate the manic–depressive nature of the Buckeye fanbase? Who knows? I’m hoping for the best though.
Historically speaking... If Urban is shown the door, the most likely reasons:
1. Conduct (Woody and the Vest) (and both are still highly remembered)
2. Failure against tSUN (Cooper)
3. Performance routinely below potential (Bruce) (don’t expect apologies for not being satisfied with 8-4 seasons)
Is this really so different from any other major program?
Bruce was Old 9 and 3
not old 8-4
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
by Pariahwulfen on Nov 29, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
Wait, is the "the spread won't work" thing for real?
At least when Meyer went to the SEC, there hadn’t been teams running similar offenses successfully in the conference for a decade. If anybody has actually tried to say this with the OSU hire, they should be prevented from ever commenting on football again.
Spread can mean so much
Meyer has taken the tenants of power, i formation football and worked them into different formations. Splice this with some option football and you have a vastly different spread system then RichRod or Mike Leach. Urban using a tight end as a weapon in the run and pass games – something RichRod didn’t use (how many slot receivers are still on the UM roster?). He also like ball control, time sapping drives. Three yards and a cloud of dust that attacks the defense where the O has numbers. He also uses big, powerful and athletic lineman, unlike RichRod who seemed to want people to top out at 6’3", 280.
THis is more of an agreement with you and a reply to those who compare the RichRod spread with Meyers.
The "spread offense won't work in the Big Ten" thing is no more ridiculous than the crap I've been hearing on ESPN
Some SEC fanalyst talking about how Meyers’ offense would easily “dominate” the B1G because, and I quote, “Big Ten defenses are like SEC’s scout team defenses.”
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Nov 28, 2011 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
At least that can be written off as coming from SEC types
I expect better from B1G fans. The guy on ESPN probably thinks that Meyer gets to bring Tebow and Harvin with him as free agents.
by MountainTiger on Nov 29, 2011 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
I find it interesting
That Urb couldn’t physically handle the pressures of running an SEC program, yet took a job with what is the most-SEC team and fanbase in the Big 10. I give him no more than 4 (very successful) years before he taps out again.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
Not sure why you’re trying to discredit my opinion just because I’m a PSU fan.
It really is my honest, unbiased observation. For what it’s worth, the furthest thing from my mind over the last 3 weeks of Penn State football was whether or not Urban Meyer was going to leave ESPN for Penn State. Or Ohio State. Or anywhere. In fact, I’d prefer if Penn State retained Bradley as HC, kept the remaining defensive coaches, and focused on getting one offensive coordinator to replace the Galen Hall/Jay Paterno two-headed beast of ineptitude.
If I were a Buckeye fan, I’d be legitimately concerned about what has been described in this piece. The Ohio State football culture is very much like the culture around Alabama, Florida, Auburn or any other successful SEC program. Expectations are high normally and they are now through the roof since the Great Urban Meyer has been given the keys to Columbus. Anything short of a Big 10 title in his 2nd year and the Redneck Rocker-type Youtube clips are going to crash the internet.
Just a general question, since I haven’t really been following this thing very closely…what kind of Urban is OSU getting? Will it be the very hands-on Urban during the majority of his stretch at Florida, or will it be the more subdued, post-heart attack Urban of his last season at Florida? From what I can tell, it sounds like he’s interested in being a little more hands-off for the sake of his health.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
See? This is what I’m talking about.
OSU fans like this jabroni are going to wig out on Meyer if he doesn’t bring a conference title or national championship to OSU in 3 years or less. Rational discussions about anything aren’t possible with these types.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
Considering his expected shelf-life, yes
I would’ve been ok with Meyer in this post-Sandusky scandal era. Because what I’m looking for in the next head coach at PSU is a capable coach that will ultimately be a transitional guy, one that I only expect to have around for a few years and will most likely maintain the program. And I don’t think it is unreasonable to believe he’s only going to be around for a few years. I’m equally happy with Tom Bradley in that role.
Pre-Sandusky scandal, Urban would have maybe been in my top 10 choices of realistic candidates. Due to the scandal, the toxicity of the program really narrows the pool of possibilities. Tom Bradley would’ve also maybe made the top 10. I think the chest-thumping of "We got Urban and PSU didn’t" is ridiculous. And I think it was equally ridiculous that some PSU fans were falling in love with the guy a couple months ago.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
No chest-thumping, just the fawning over Urban by PSU fans after one he called one PSU game (pre Sandusky) was funny. NOw a lot of PSU fans seems a little bent out of shape that he had the gall to go to OSU. More observation than anything else.
Now a lot of PSU fans seems a little bent out of shape that he had the gall to go to OSU.
Where are these knuckleheads? I frequent BSD and haven’t witnessed any such anger over there.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
If you read some of the comments there with a unbiased eye or even scarlet-tinged glasses, it’s there. It’s here where I work with some PSU grads.
I’ll grant that the animosity might have been there when Pryor picked OSU over PSU, but I really really really just don’t see it in this instance. I think everybody in blue and white knew Meyer would take Ohio State over Penn State now that the Sandusky thing turned State College into a Superfund site.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
Family Guy Donkey
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! HeeHaw! HeeHaw! HeeHaw!
by GoWings2008 on Nov 29, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
3 years?
He’s had a day and a half and I’m already mad we don’t have the consensus #1 recruiting class and he isn’t winning the B10 or NCG this year. Who can wait 3 years for that stuff?
06Lion, since you bring up football cultures
I was thinking last night on the drive home that the Big Ten fan community that most resembles Ohio State’s is Penn State’s. And that’s why the interactions between our two fanbases have been so toxic.
Granted, I might be basing my observations from reading BSD comments for the last couple of years (off and on).
I’m not sure I agree completely with that assessment. On one hand, in terms of the overall culture being very football-centric, I’d probably agree with you. There probably isn’t a university in the Big Ten that cares disproportionately as much about football when compared to any other athletic program. Well, there is Wisconsin, so I’d say they are in that party. Michigan comes close, but the passion seems to be lacking. Michigan State seems to be equally passionate about basketball as they are about football, and the rest either care only about basketball or don’t have any interest as a fanbase.
But on the other hand, and no offense meant here, but the expectations placed on the football program are tempered a bit at Penn State. Being really really crappy for half a decade will tend to do that. Ohio State has been very successful in that timeframe, and correspondingly, expectations are high. Fan "investment" levels are high, so every loss is examined under a microscope. And that fishbowl scenario, that pressure, in my opinion, exists significantly more at Ohio State than at Penn State. And it’s not anything that is specific to Ohio State. It is just a natural byproduct of sustained success on the football field.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
This is waaaaaay off topic
but, if i recall correctly, didnt you say something about eating your own hat if Bucky put up 35 pts on the vaunted State Penn defense?
You win with people (not named Joe Bauserman)
Yep, I did
Good thing I don’t own a hat. Last PSU hat I owned I placed on the memorial at Virginia Tech, on top of the stone for the guy that did his undergrad at PSU. I had a couple labs with him back in the day.
How’s that for dodging a question? BOOM.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
Damn you! That was used-car salesman slick
In that case, accept this humble offering for your stomach rumblings:
You win with people (not named Joe Bauserman)
by BuckeyeSki on Nov 29, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Used-car salesman slick?
This aggression towards Bill Stewart will not stand, sir.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames
Follow @GSchofield50
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Dec 1, 2011 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
PSU and OSU have the most similar fanbases
Both are very football-centric, almost to a fault. I always enjoyed myself when I was there, but i always found myself looking around the corner for a urine-soaked balloon. I’m sure it’s similar for PSU fans at OSU.
As for expectations, even during the dark years, it seemed that PSU thought that the next win would put them right back in it. Heck, this year most PSU fans thougth the Alabama game would be a contest and that if (when?) PSU won, it was going to be a undefeated season.
Maybe it’s more delusions of grandeur than unrealistic expectations, I don’t know, but PSU always seems to think highly of themselves. Probabaly the same for OSU.
You must work with some goofy Penn State fans. I, and a lot of folks, expected the Alabama game to be a close loss with a chance at winning. Obviously the assumption was that the PSU offense (QBs, really) would’ve progressed from last year’s nightmare. They didn’t, and the defense was asked to shoulder a large burden during that game. All things considered, they did pretty well. And most of the preseason predictions at BSD ranged from 7-5 to 11-1, with the bulk in the 8-4 and 9-3 range. Spot on with what played out.
Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but that contrasts with my impression that Ohio State fans were thinking OSU was still going to be the big dog in the Legends (Leaders?) division, despite losing Pryor and Sweater.
Luring recruits with my new "Posting HD" scheme since '08.
Which is why this season was so frustrating – and another reason i’m pissed at Jim Tressel. He was such a egomaniac, he wouldn’t develop coaches, so he has no coaching tree to speak of. OSU fans had no idea how much rot/inbreeding Tressel was covering up. Hell, Tressel ball wasn’t fun to watch when he was coaching. Take him out of the equation and turn it over to a no-talent walrus and it god awful to watch.
My expectations:
This season with JT and the tat 5 (assuming no free tattoos) – 11-1
Same with JT and Tat 5 post suspension – 10-2, 9-3
Walrus calling plays, no Tat 5 – 8-4
Reality -6-6 with inexlicable losses, games with 1completion, and 2 games with creative offensive gameplans (don’t think for a minute the walrus came up with those) where the defense spits the bit, Bauserman, and one game where they shut down the best running game in football.
OSU fans had no idea how much rot/inbreeding Tressel was covering up.
I think Roger is referring specifically to Tressel’s offensive coaches. We did indeed not have a clue as to the deficiencies on the O staff.
In fact most Buckeye fans didn’t realize until after the 2008 USC game that Tressel and not the OC/Bollman was calling most of the plays. That game led to a public outcry to fire Bollman. Local beat writers then had to explain to us that it wasn’t Bollman we should be mad at.
This season made it painfully obvious why Tressel and not Bollman had been calling the plays.
I think a lot of fans knew nmore than you say
People have been bemoaning Bollman’s OL coaching, recruiting and philosophy for years. It says a lot that the TE coach took over coaching the tackles, too. Maybe OSU will quit trying to convert guards into tackles now.
It doesn’t take a genius to see the nepotism behind having your brother as RB coach, either. I’ve never seen another team have more RBs that run straight into the biggest butt in front of them and fall down instead of finding a hole.
Everybody scoffed at Siciliano as a QB coach while watching the “progress” of Pryor and his arm punts. Even this year the O coaches were convinced Bauserman was the best OSU had. How bad is your QB recruiting and coaching that he is the best available?
The WR coach was new, so there isn’t much rot there.
I still wanted Bollman fired
since he was the OL coach, and they haven’t been developed properly since ’07.
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
by Pariahwulfen on Nov 30, 2011 8:22 AM CST up reply actions
So
When do we hear about an Urban Meyer scandal?
Anyone wanna take a guess on the year?
Mikael Granlund: The Great Hope
yup, still not worried
im definitely not worried at all about another big 2 little 10 situation. Michigan is nowhere near strong enough yet to make it happen. coming off a 6-2 big ten year (in what is considered a weak year for the BIG might i add) and your already declaring the big 2 little 8 back? lawl, you guys were losing to App State and only getting 3 wins not that long ago, and remember, recruited talent was never the problem at Michigan under Richrod, so will your talent really get any better from here on? i wonder. show some consistency at the top first and we will talk. actually win the conference and we will talk. beat MSU and we will talk hell, finish in the top half of the legends during a good big ten year and we will talk. .
and OSU is also on shaky ground even with this hire. those Florida arrests problems will have a spotlight on them alot bigger if they happen in OSU after the type of scandal they just had. I look into my crystal ball and see a LOT of 1 to 3 game suspensions in OSUs future, and those tend to hurt the chances of having national titles. i dont know whether he oversigned in the SEC, but thats not going to be an option period in the BIG. and if they get a real punishment by the NCAA that will hold them back a few years. not only that, but if Meyer actually has health problems then just how long will he really be there? if Meyer makes it longer than 7 years at OSU without either retiring or getting fired il be surprised
besides that, Nebraska and Wisconsin are on track to be right up there with them every year, and Iowa, PSU and MSU will probably contend once in a while, if not regularly in the future. combined with Northwestern being consistently bowl strength due to the black magic using Fitz, and the sleeping giant held back by the zooker called Illinois and the last thing im worried about is michigan and OSU dominating year in and year out.
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Nov 29, 2011 12:49 AM CST reply actions
An Iowa fan can attest to players arrests.
Something you can honestly say you are top of the B1G in.
by biggy84 on Nov 29, 2011 1:22 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
our unofficial school song is "in heaven there is no beer"
yeah, we tend to drink
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Nov 29, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
Doesn't help that Iowa's 4th rivalry
is with the Iowa City Police Department.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
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by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Dec 1, 2011 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Whoa...
lawl, you guys were losing to App State and only getting 3 wins not that long ago,
Holy Fucking SHIT. I hear this joke plenty of times, and I do take it as a joke, or a trolls desparate attempt to shit on UM’s parade, esp this year, BUT MY FUCKING GOODNESS, can we get past App State already? It was OVER FIVE YEARS AGO, two coaches removed, and guess what people keep forgetting about that season….UM finished it by doing something that a lot of B1G teams are failing to do nowadays….beat an SEC team. A Meyer led SEC team at that.
Okay….we’re just a few years removed from piss poor B1G performances, I’ll grant you that. But can ANYone honestly say they expected 10-2 (6-2) from THIS coach, THIS year? I certainly didn’t think so three months ago. This guy has brought back the Michigan identity, with players that RRod recruited. He far exceeded most (logical) people’s expectations. He has a killer staff, and pride back in the program. I am not predicting successive years’ victories over tsio by any means, but YES…the talent will REALLY get better from here on it. They’re already a top three recruiting class. No, I don’t expect that to be the standard year in, year out…Meyer to OSU is going to create an epic recruiting battle.
But seriously….enough of the FUCKING APP STATE SHIT WITH A STRAIGHT FACE. I can take a joke, but come on. The coaches and players are gone. Hoke has exorcised those demons.
Whoa dude
Usually you’re pretty chill when UM bashing occurs. Not have your coffee this morning? Here you go. I even used your favorite cup.
I keeed, I keeeed
by SpartyFever on Nov 29, 2011 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Very funny you say that...
I just got back to my desk with my first cup…no lie.
Yes, I am usually pretty chill about stuff, but honestly….getting App St thrown into my face is something I expect from the four-letter network trolls, but I always operated as if the fan in this room is a lot more savvy on the workings of college football and realize it was an isolated incident, and bringing it up is simply just a method of getting someone mad….which I do appreciate happens from time to time. BUT, I think this went beyond your garden-variety UM bashing. I got the feeling he meant it with a straight face, as he went on and on supporting his point.
Stop the madness….
And nice job throwing my catch phrase back at me! :-)
Although I almost always disagree with JSHF's posts
He does have one good point. The mindset of the “Big 2, Little 10” is widely prevalent within the country. Being a fan of either OSU or UM, you don’t think twice about it (as one would expect). However, it’s a bit insulting to be considered one of the Little 10, especially considering the on-field successes. Iowa under Ferentz has been pretty consistent throughout the past few years, and had some break-outs. Wisconsin has been steadily climbing the BCS rankings over the years as well. MSU under Dantonio has outperformed any previous coach. Both MSU and Wisconsin are now contending for their second Big Ten Championship in a row. Yet ESPN, the BTN, and overall the national media cannot stop slobbering over OSU and UM once again taking over the top spots in the B1G.
I mean, look at Wisconsin. The nation was riding high on the Wisconsin bandwagon. When they drop two games in a row, both of which occurred due to hail marys, the Wisconsin talk was finished. Yet every week we heard about UM’s vastly improved defense, Denard’s heisman talk, and the collective circle-jerk over Brady Hoke in-between reminders of OSU’s return of suspended players, the improvement with Braxton Miller, and how OSU will be back to its prime soon. I don’t deny Hoke is doing his job over at Michigan. But where was this for Coach Kill? He took a Brewster-lead team who barely competed last year, and made a major improvement. He gave USC, MSU, and others a good scare. And he pulled multiple upsets. Yet no recognition.
Basically, TL;DR…it’s terribly frustrating for the the fanbases of the “Little 10” to be constantly second to the “Big 2”, especially when their on-field successes should prove otherwise. One might say “show us consistency”. Wisconsin definitely has. Iowa did until the past two years. Michigan State is almost there. Penn State has, recent events withstanding.
It’s unjust for the fanbases of the “Little 10” to be expected to ignore the recent failures of the “Big 2”, without the “Big 2” recognizing the recent advancements of the “Little 10” and the drive to make their own impact on the B1G. I hope that clarifies why people lash out when this mindset is used in an argument.
Sorry Nebraska, you're still pretty new so I forgot about you
But there is a team who not only has 1) had a good team and 2) a long history of success. Yet where is their recognition? Where is their talk of “taking over the B1G”? Perhaps at the beginning of the year, but it’s back to UM-OSU, regardless that Nebraska is a better team than at least one of them.
Hadn't heard about the Big 2, Little 10 thing.
Guess sometimes it’s good being the new kid on the block. Who are the Big 2? :)
Agreed
I won’t disagree with any of that. MSU and Wisc have more than enough reason to bitch. The Little Ten label is unfair, and honestly, not good for the conference. Our national power is best served when more than just the Big 2 are recognized as threats. I like how Wisc has become consistent, MSU the same, as much as it pains me to say so… I keeeeed.
But none of that was the genesis for my lashing out. I’ve stated my case, nothing further to report.
you almost always dissagree with me?
:`(
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Nov 29, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Only when I don't agree with your posts
Other than that, I agree with you
by SpartyFever on Nov 29, 2011 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
UM had an interesting takeaway from that game (probably moreso the Oregon embarassments, but that was the moment the world noticed). If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em. Rather than fix what was a glaring weakness – the defense was just not fast – they went out and tried to recruit the flavor of the day coaches and ended up on RichRod.
OSU learned from similar embarrasments in the NC games that they need big fast DL and LBs that can cover in space – basically get SEC style guys in the defensive front 7 and you can shut down the spread offenses (2011 notwithstanding).
Agreed
The coaching carousel landing on RRod, after reading more about it later, was a result that not much else was available, or at least….nothing that Martin was willing to go out and look for at the time.
The big AND fast guys are being cultivated now, which is to say I think more and more kids in HS are learning what it takes to be at a big time program. Benefit to the schools, I guess.
I suppose we’ll start seeing more and more season ending injuries now as a result.
by GoWings2008 on Nov 29, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
But in all seriousness
This is kinda what it’s like when people use the moniker “Sparty No!” and remind us of the John L Smith era.
That’s why I keep this little gem for such occasions
GW 2008, you have no one to blame but yourself for this
:)
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
by Ted Glover on Nov 29, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Yes,
I accept full responsibility.
And same to you….
Fuck you, you fucking fuck.
:)
by GoWings2008 on Nov 29, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Well of course.
I don’t think its worth counting until there’s a three in a row streak going. But I do like 368 (369 now…lol) better than the count down to next year’s game. Seems like a double standard otherwise.
The funniest part is "Miami's Quiet Man: The Heroic Rise of Randy Shannon."
Covering Michigan Basketball for Maize n Brew.
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/bowchickabowow
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
by Pariahwulfen on Nov 29, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
no. we can't get past app state
lolololololololololololololol michigan sucks.
It was actually me that brought up the Big 2 little 8 (or 10) first.
I wasn’t suggesting that it was the case the it has returned…just that’s what I felt the media would focus on and suggest was the case.
Much like they are suggesting that the loser of the B1G championship game will fall out of the top 14 and BCS eligibility. Why? What if the MSU/UW goes down to the wire again? What did one team do that was so egregious as to drop out of the top 14? I can understand if this was a match up like the PAC-12 (10-2 vs. 6-6) but we’ve got two, ten win, top 15 teams, should losing to a top 15 team when you are in the top 15 make you fall out of the top 15?
I’ve never understood the statement that I’ve heard in reference to ND specifically and others generally that,“college football is better when they are good.” Why? Honestly aside from some uniforms and good historical coaches, is there something they (ND, USC, UM, OSU) do better with their wins than other teams? Do they donate their ticket proceeds to charity? Most schools run clean programs and graduate players (generally at a better rate than the student population at large)…so why is it “better” for these programs to be good? Is it because they have a ton of barely literate, mouth breathing fans, who are “diehards” even if they never attended a class nor made a donation to any of the institutions they claim to support?
Rhetorical, sure.
The media won't do that
Because at worst it would be the Big 4 and Little 8. They aren’t going to ignore PSU and NE. Once you’re talking about 33% of the conference, that’s no different than any other conference (LSU & AL & UF +1, UT & OU, etc).
Everyone is saying the B10 CCG loser will fall out of the top 14 because they will. WI is already below 15 and they won’t move up with a loss. MSU is at 13 overall, 9 & 11 in the polls and 16 in the computers. The humans will drop the loser a few places. The computers hate the B10 this year so they’ll drop the loser a lot. Barring a major upset (UH, Boise, OR or KSU), nobody will drop behind MSU. Meanwhile, GA is right behind MSU and would have a much better loss, MI can’t lose, Baylor can move up by beating UT or UT can jump up, TCU has an easy game and Clemson would jump from beating VT.
If every outcome goes MSU’s way, it’s possible they stay in the top 14. But that means UH, OR, KSU, Baylor and TCU getting upset, WI barely winning (preferably on a questionable call in OT), and GA and Clemson losing. UH has a big lead so they may not drop below MSU for losing to #24. Boise would get crushed for a second loss, this one to a 2 win team. OR also has a big lead, but UCLA stinks so they would drop substantially. OU won’t suffer much for losing to OkSU. KSU is the best candidate to drop behind MSU. GA won’t drop far for losing to LSU, so MSU could easily fall behind them. WI would move up, obviously. Baylor will get a lot of computer love if they beat UT or else UT will advance. Without a minor miracle, I just don’t see how the results will work out to keep MSU in the top 14 with a loss. And even if they do, every bowl would rather have 10-2 MI than 10-3 MSU coming off of a loss anyway, so MI would have to be 15 or lower.
That just seems very unlikely to me and almost everyone else that isn’t a Spartan fan.
From the Iowa perspective...
…it is still the big 2… new coach, but expecting same results…
I was going to say that the biggest barrier was other teams
But then I realized most of the teams I was going to cite (MSU, Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, Northwestern) are in the Legends. In the Leaders it’s just Wisconsin who will be rebuilding and PSU who will be getting a new coaching staff as well.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
I question Meyer's recruiting abilities
He had one home run class (2006), but after that he didn’t bring in much. In 2006, Zook players were the backbone of the team, and in 2008 it was the previously mentioned 2006 class.
by Jonathan Loesche on Nov 29, 2011 8:46 AM CST reply actions
This is true, but Ohio State always recruits very well in Ohio, and that’s been enough to achieve quite a bit. Meyer doesn’t have to be a great recruiter- allowing the OSU name to continue recruiting at the Ohio level and garnering a top recruit or two from Florida once in awhile should be enough.
Also think if Meyer is able to keep Fickell on staff
Then that might be the linchpin to monopolizing Ohio recruits. (Honestly, it irks the shit out of me that I have to type that. Turncoats. Traitors. How dare you to even think about going elsewhere.)
Fickell had the reputation on Tressel’s staff as being the closer for getting key recruits.
They are going to get a hell of a fight from that school up north for those top Ohio kids.
Brady Hoke really likes to recruit Ohio.
Covering Michigan Basketball for Maize n Brew.
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It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. Some of the Ohio high school coaches weren’t too keen on the UM staffs’ negative recruiting. Maybe this was a byproduct of needing an immediate talent upgrade and won’t continue in the future, but word gets around when this happens.
Hopefully Urban, like Tressel, stays away from that and sells OSU.
Hell biggy, let's just start referring to TSUN
as the Ohio Wolverines of Michigan (OWM for short). Even their coaches come from here.
Indiana is nicer that that
and the girls are prettier.
Paul -
Go Sparty! Go Bucks!
by pmeisel on Nov 29, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
thassa rec
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Nov 30, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
Dunno if its still true
but I know a few years back Michigan did something to piss off Ted Ginn Sr. (coach at Glenville in Cleveland) and he was influential in steering some kids and influencing some coaches away from Michigan.
Plus, a lot of recruiting Ohio, for OSU, was keeping good coaching continuity, and good assistants with a lot of contacts and ties. RichRod disrupted that and Hoke can’t get it back in just two years, it’ll take awhile.
I am old enough to remember when Woody owned Ohio, and even Bo got second or third pick, which was still pretty good. And it wasn’t just Woody, it was the way the staff cultivated the high school coaches. Tressel worked the same circuit, knew the people, never forgot a name.
Paul -
Go Sparty! Go Bucks!
The one thing that is very telling...
He said he was not happy about “the state of college football”. So he left the SEC to come to the B1G, but to a team on probation and with reduced scholarships (and possible other sanctions coming down). I read that as “there was a lot of stuff going on in the SEC that I did not like”.
by TheHumbleBuckeye on Nov 29, 2011 9:07 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Such as....
“Gosh, I just had an 8-4 season, and things aren’t looking very good for next year. Maybe now is the best time to leave.”
Or
“Tim’s gone….not much left in the bull pen. I think now would be a good time to take a sabbatical.”
Funny, but UF, Georgia and Vandy hold themselves to higher standards than the rest of the SEC. Coming to OSU and the Big 10 where the playing field is relatively level as far as academics (excepting NU), scholarship availability, and roster management (i.e., cuts, greyshirting, medical hardships) is likely going to be easier on him than recruiting against the SEC West, Clemson, FSU and Miami where academics are, shall we say, secondary.
Secondary?!
How about elevendary? You can run or tackle, hell you don’t even have to be be literate.
/just kidding
//barely
What you did there
with the ‘what you did there I see it’
I see it.
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
Ahhh
but UF, Georgia and Vandy hold themselves to higher standards than the rest of the SEC.
I suppose that’s all relative though…
I will never stop reminding Michigan fans of App State for 3 reasons
1. i was raised in north carolina and still live there
2. my dad is an obnoxious michigan fan
3. fuck michigan
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Nov 29, 2011 11:46 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
i <3 you too buddy :)
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Nov 29, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Hate to burst your bubble
but I didn’t go to Michigan.
by GoWings2008 on Nov 29, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
And ...
its okay for him to say fuck, as long as there’s a “Michigan” after it, but when I say it back, I’m not being classy. Interesting.
by GoWings2008 on Nov 29, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
We may have lost the game, which nobody will even remember next year, but this will live forever:
You win with people (not named Joe Bauserman)
I disagree
plenty of people will remember the result of this game….
But this, yes, will be remembered forever. To borrow a line….if we hadn’t won the game, UM fans wouldn’t have found this hysterically funny. And it WAS hysterically funny.
Funny, but week one wrapped up the funniest of the year
"/>
by MountainTiger on Nov 29, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
It would have been better if he had caused a safety
Then it would have been hilarious, embarrassing, AND detrimental
Dan Orlovsky says 'lolwut'
Some people just need a high five. In the face. With a chair.
by Ted Glover on Nov 29, 2011 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Nick Fairley was flagged for a late hit on this play.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames
Follow @GSchofield50
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Dec 1, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
I think he
had an out of body experience, seeing what the next calendar year would be like if this one mistake had cost UM the game, it’d be all his fault, he’d be the butt of jokes from now until someone dropped a tactical nuke on the city of Columbus, and he’s ruined Christmas, New Years and Labor Day all because he used too much skin moisturizer on his hands (bad joke inserted here), his team mates, coaches, parents, friends and the rest of the fan base wouldn’t be able to look him in the eye again, and he’ll have to get plastic surgery and cut all his hair off to change his look….. All this flashed in his mind at the very moment his eyes reached maximum extension.
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