SI Article Shows 9 Players To Add To TatFive, Little Else
by Ian_InsideTheShoe on May 31, 2011 5:50 AM CDT
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What we all found was...well, nothing. The only big deal would be the fact that 9 other players were involved with the Tattoo guy, Rife. Those players were: defensive back C.J. Barnett, linebacker Dorian Bell, running back Jaamal Berry, running back Bo DeLande, defensive back Zach Domicone, linebacker Storm Klein, linebacker Etienne Sabino, defensive tackle John Simon and defensive end Nathan Williams.
It doesn't help Sports Illustrated's cause when more than half the article that was written, didn't even pertain to the fact of Tressel in his OSU era. Most of it was during his time at Youngstown State. Really? I mean, give me a break. The fact that they say they've "dug up" some pretty serious stuff is just looking plain stupid right now.
Dohrmann, the author of the article, documents that a former OSU assistant coach believes that Coach Tressel “rigged a raffle” as an assistant coach to ensure that elite athletes won prizes at Ohio State football camps in the 1980s. This part of the article was to show Tressel's desire to "do anything" to win. Oh, this is classic stuff right here. If the best you have on an upstanding, terrific head coach is a raffle "rigging", then you might as well quit your job as an investigator.
Meanwhile, Pryor may or may not have driven eight cars during his three seasons at Ohio State and Rob Rose and Jermil Martin spilled the beans, but TJ Downing did not. Here is a picture of Pryor's 350z that he drove to the player's meeting last night.
All in all, this is not something to worry about, since the 9 players will not be suspended unless there is some serious, actual evidence. Sports Illustrated apologizes for wasting your time, and will not try any harder next time.
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So, Tressel resigned to focus on his golf game/scared of Iowa?
"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy
This is the reason so many people hate Ohio State and their fans.
Complete ignorance. All this article says to me is, “Well it’s not like we killed a person, get over it.” And that’s the attitude too many OSU fans have and why no one likes them. Your biggest defense was “9 players that probably won’t get suspended because there isn’t a enough evidence.”
First: That’s 9 ACTIVE players. 28 overall. 28. TWENTY-EIGHT. That number alone will lead to ‘lack of institutional control’ penalties WITHOUT a ton of evidence.
Second: They probably will get suspended. That is your biggest problem. Ignorance. You are following in the footsteps of Tressel himself. Your university is staring straight into the eyes of bowl bans, scholarship losses, and, if enough evidence is revealed, a possible death penalty. You put everything in such simple terms to make it look okay. The problem is, that it’s not. Tressel, Pryor and 27 other players have done a lot of damage, some of which might not even be revealed yet. Stop whining about the article some SI reporter wrote and own up to the fact that OSU is in trouble and this article, biased or not, reveals things that will only hurt the university.
The Youngstown State and assistant coaching positions are EXTREMELY relevant at this point. Tressel got caught lying. People are in disbelief. Because of this article, people are starting to realize he has left a trial. Maybe he ISN’T the great person we all thought. Heck, some of the memorabilia sold at the tattoo shop was signed by Tressel.
I understand your disappointment, but taking it out on the media and turning this around to make OSU look innocent is ridiculous.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
by Gookin on May 31, 2011 10:34 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
Not even close...
…he just points out the only real new information (9 additional current players), the irrelevant (Youngstown State) and the pure hearsay (rigging a raffle?).
The Youngstown State and assistant coaching positions are EXTREMELY relevant at this point.
No, it’s not – the Vest is gone and with him departs his prior infractions. OSU fans will no more discard the Vest for this than Woody after striking an opposing player. It is only an issue for the rest of the nation trying to drop a program which achieved success most can’t reach.
Second: They probably will get suspended.
Quite possible – then again the NCAA isn’t actively pursuing this.
They weren’t embezzling from the University (Bama and textbooks).
They weren’t breaking legal statutes (Cam stolen laptop).
They didn’t involve agents which would encroach on amateur status (A. J. Green).
They didn’t involve the University staff (Tennessee).
It wasn’t used in recruiting (long list here).
It wasn’t more serious offenses like academic fraud (FSU online tests).
It is typically a 1 to 4 game suspension – the other suspensions were longer, likely a tradeoff for eligibility in the Sugar Bowl.
Your university is staring straight into the eyes of bowl bans, scholarship losses, and, if enough evidence is revealed, a possible death penalty.
Brace yourself – little to none of this will come to pass.
Selling memorabilia was covered above.
There never was a lot to the used car deals. After being raked over by the Ohio DMV it was found the prices were typical, the dealership turned a profit on every sale.
An average sale price of $11,600 excluding the trade in is not a steal for a used Dodge.
This average price could be artificially low after some dealer accounting tricks (BMV investigating).
The bling would be better described as lipstick on a pig. Window tint is pocket change (under $40 from Wal-Mart), new rims are cheap for a car dealership which orders them at wholesale, detailing and scratch removal is standard for newer used cars.
The large number routed thru a single dealer which followed him as he changed dealerships has been tracked to the dealer cultivating the market by familiarizing himself with the NCAA limits and reporting procedures, and knowing his target market (lipstick on a pig).
It is within most college student’s budgets – the payments on an $11,600 loan for 5 years at 8% interest is under $240 a year.
The only remaining item is Terrel Pryor with a ridiculously large number of test drives. This is very shady as he skates on the edge of the NCAA violations, but he also looks to have not crossed the line. Even if he did, it is 1 player with 1 infraction – hardly on par with the dedicated print to the topic.
Lying to the NCAA is a HUGE infraction. Enough to cost a coach his job… but it is still 1 person with 1 infraction, The NCAA already passed on pursuing loss of institutional control so forget about the death penalty. Maybe a couple of scholarships a year, no bowl ban forthcoming.
First: That’s 9 ACTIVE players. 28 overall. 28. TWENTY-EIGHT. That number alone will lead to ‘lack of institutional control’ penalties WITHOUT a ton of evidence
…over a period of more than a decade.
About the same number as FSU and the more serious violation of academic fraud.
About the same number that were embezzling Bama in the textbook scandal.
Not even close to a lack of institutional control ruling.
If you had a valid point, you wouldn’t feel the need to exaggerate.
taking it out on the media and turning this around to make OSU look innocent is ridiculous.
Where does any OSU fan try to make them look innocent? Because they ask for evidence rather than accepting an article written by an author asserting innuendo as fact? Because they won’t equate 1 major and tiny infractions to a program death penalty?
If you had a valid point, you wouldn’t need to exaggerate.
Again, ignorance.
You are turning this around to make it look like I think they deserve the death penalty, when I flat outsaid IF THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE. Because right now there isn’t enough evidence to prove anything. BUT, what a lotof OSU fans, like you and Ian are doing is saying “but..” “well..” and “It’s not proven yet.” The scary part is that this investigation has just started. Most people thought the Tat-5 was the end of it but it was only scratching the surface. The NCAA and OSU are launching 2nd investigations and additional ones involving Terrelle Pryor and other players may come up. That comment wasn’t to complain about Ohio State fans. It was to inform them that making excuses and thinking nothing will come of this is ridiculous. Everyone who has talked out of Ohio State, most notably Gene Smith has said “we will handle this situation and any other future accusations,” meaning they know they have more coming. I don’t ask that you completely agree with me or write an apology Letter or give up liking OSU, but just realize this is a big deal. You pass it off like it’s a joke. I have talked to a lot of OSU fans that are embarrassed by people who still defend OSU like they did nothing wrong: Don’t be that guy.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
I'm not saying that Ohio State did nothing wrong
Otherwise, they wouldn’t be in this situation. Both Tressel and Ohio State lied. I was merely writing this article simply because the SI report said basically nothing at all. The new 9 players on the list of selling memorabilia will not be in trouble at all because there is no proof at the moment. It seems like sloppy investigating, and that was the whole point.
SI did another horrid job, and I reacted to it. I was pissed off when I found about the whole TatFive, and I will most likely never defend this group of players until they are gone. What they did got Tressel fired, basically. Sure, he didn’t tell anyone about the emails, but there wouldn’t have been emails if they wouldn’t have done anything stupid.
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by Ian_InsideTheShoe on Jun 1, 2011 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions
That clears a few things up.
I will admit that the investigating was a bit sloppy, but still monumental and only hurts OSU. The article will start the second round of more in depth investigating which could kill OSU… not so much this article. I think you mistook what I said about this thinking that I meant the article is going to hurt OSU, when it’s the investigations to come that will. The 9 players who traded memorabilia for tats or drugs will more than likely be suspended and don’t think it will be for a shorter time period than the Tat-5, especially if it involves drugs. We will see what comes of this but my only warning is that this probably will only get worse.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
No doubt
It’s not as if I believe (foolishly) that the SI article somehow helped Ohio State in some way. It still hurts us in the long run, I was just saying that after the enormous amount of hype it received, and then Tressel retiring, we thought it was going to be Tressel secretly being the one to pay the players or something much more drastic. This made it look like he didn’t tip the waitress on his way out of dinner.
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by Ian_InsideTheShoe on Jun 1, 2011 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions
We have come to an agreement.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
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by Ian_InsideTheShoe on Jun 1, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
You might want to hold off throwing around the phrase "Ignorant" with comments like these...
The 9 players who traded memorabilia for tats or drugs will more than likely be suspended and don’t think it will be for a shorter time period than the Tat-5
Now you are really reaching to exaggerate the claims.
Like the Bama players caught reselling textbooks, the suspensions will be in line with the typical penalty – 1 to 5 games – not longer because of other violations..
We will see what comes of this but my only warning is that this probably will only get worse.
After missing the mark so many times on how NCAA sanctions work, your warnings mean less than nothing.
Still not even close...
You are turning this around to make it look like I think they deserve the death penalty, when I flat outsaid IF THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE.
Thisi s false. You said…
First: That’s 9 ACTIVE players. 28 overall. 28. TWENTY-EIGHT. That number alone will lead to ‘lack of institutional control’ penalties WITHOUT a ton of evidence.
While calling others ignorant, the truth is you don’t even know how the NCAA defines “Lack of Institutional Control.”
The scary part is that this investigation has just started.
No, what you hate is that the investigation is wrapping up. The used car dealer has gone from free cars to 1 player. There isn’t anything new waiting to be brought to light by Tressel withholding information.
The NCAA and OSU are launching 2nd investigations and additional ones involving Terrelle Pryor and other players may come up.
So? The closest comparison for the memorabilia for cash and goods is Bama and the textbooks. The Bama players were given suspensions typical for the infraction similar to what will be given additional OSU players found violating the rule.
Bama was only penalize further because of prior infractions described by the NCAA as “…serial repeat violator …abysmal infractions track record …extensive recent history of infractions cases unmatched by any other member institution in the NCAA…”
This is no where close to OSUs starting point, and Bama’s penalties were more than you are proposing.
That comment wasn’t to complain about Ohio State fans.
This is a lie. Your comment was entirely to complain about and antagonize OSU fans.
Everyone who has talked out of Ohio State, most notably Gene Smith has said "we will handle this situation and any other future accusations," meaning they know they have more coming.
No, this doesn’t mean this at all. It means they will investigate any potential violations, and sanction any persons found in violation of NCAA regulations. It is not a prediction.
I have talked to a lot of OSU fans that are embarrassed by people who still defend OSU like they did nothing wrong: Don’t be that guy.
Now you are grasping at straws. Pointing out your lack of knowledge on the topic (such as the threshold for Lack of Institutional Control) does not equate to making excuses.
I'm not even going to explain myself again.
You win, whatever. Just don’t go complaining on this blog when they get hit with more penalties.
Oh, and quit comparing this to the Bama textbook thing. This has SO many more levels. That’s barely relevant.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
More penalties...
,,,are quite possible, but…
Your prediction of “Loss of Institutional Control” when you don’t know the definition….
Your prediction of the death penalty…
Your prediction of sanctions when you clearly have no idea how sanctions are implemented…
Absolutely not.
Oh, and quit comparing this to the Bama textbook thing.
I am not complaining, just citing a commonly known example with a similar number of players over a similar number of years violating a similar NCAA regulation.
Of course, it runs counter to your conclusion and therefore must be ignored. Care to tell us all about how the NCAA determines “Loss of Institutional Control?”
This has SO many more levels.
No, this doesn’t.
OSU doesn’t have Bama’s prior history of infractions which was what lead to sanctions beyond the suspensions.
The Bama offense was worse embezzlement from the University is not only selling program provided materials, it is illegal.
The number of players involved or violations by others does not increase the length of player suspensions.
…not the best soap box for you to climb on and refer to others as ignorant.
That’s barely relevant.
Running contrary to your assertions is not the definition of relevant.
It is entirely relevant that Bama started out in a deep hole they dug over several decades, committed a worse offense by a similar number of players over a similar time span, but was given far lesser sanctions than what you propose.
…your soap box is getting quite shaky…
Okay first of all, you are being a complete asshole.
Don’t act like ‘Lack of institutional control’ would never be used, because when you have TWENTY-EIGHT players that did that, the university will be charged with lack of control because with 28 players, you should know that something is going on. And if you don’t, you don’t have control.
No, none of this has been proven, but it very well could be. That’s my whole point. You are sitting here saying ’can’t prove this, can’t prove that’ when I’m saying that they are investigating NOW. Your claims are just as hypothetical as mine when you say ‘well this happened at Bama so we can’t be punished more here.’ If you couldn’t tell, this isn’t textbooks. This is school shoulder pads, helmets, Tressel-autographed material, cars, lying, and almost a year of cover ups. Like many people have said, the cover ups are 10 times worse than the crimes. That is what is going to bring in the penalties.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
by Gookin on Jun 1, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I am not the one calling others ignorant.
Don’t act like ‘Lack of institutional control’ would never be used, because when you have TWENTY-EIGHT players that did that, the university will be charged with lack of control because with 28 players, you should know that something is going on.
You can drop the act - we realize you don’t know what you are talking about.
Lack of institutional control is not a reflection of the number of infractions nor the seriousness of the infractions. You will find a detailed description with sources here:
What is “Lack of Institutional Control”
No, none of this has been proven, but it very well could be. That’s my whole point. You are sitting here saying ’can’t prove this, can’t prove that’
This is a lie. I am noting that even if it is proven, it will not warrant the sanctions you are describing.
Your claims are just as hypothetical as mine when you say ‘well this happened at Bama so we can’t be punished more here.’
I don’t think you know the definition of hypothetical. Citing an example of a more severe infraction is not hypothetical.
With a basis for comparison it has far more support than the beliefs of someone who doesn’t know what comprises a lack of institutional control.
If you couldn’t tell, this isn’t textbooks.
This is obvious.
Reselling textbooks was embezzlement and a legal statute violation, reselling personal memorabilia is only an NCAA infraction.
…but both violate the same NCAA rule.
Like many people have said, the cover ups are 10 times worse than the crimes. That is what is going to bring in the penalties.
I never claimed it wouldn’t be penalized.
I do show you are clueless with the application of NCAA sanctions against individuals – the other issues will not increase their suspensions.
I do show you are clueless when it comes to the NCAA use of loss of institutional control.
I do show you are clueless on the application of the death penalty.
I do show you are clueless in the relevance of Youngstown State.
I do show you are clueless in declaring others ignorant when you posess no knowledge of note.
I do show you are playing forum slots, inserting $48 in tokens in hopes of a $2 payout. Keep the tokens coming, because no matter how you try to rephrase your assessment, it is still wrong.
First.
Seriously, stop being an asshole. Like. Seriously. Telling me I don’t know the definition of this and that doesn’t make you look smarter, doesn’t make anyone want to believe you more, and definitely doesn’t make you not look like an asshole.
And because of that, I decided I would be the asshole.
In determining whether there has been a lack of institutional control when a violation of NCAA
rules has been found it is necessary to ascertain what formal institutional policies and procedures
were in place at the time the violation of NCAA rules occurred and whether those policies and
procedures, if adequate, were being monitored and enforced
Let me emphasize those last few lines, in case your asshole infested brain can’t comprehend it.
institutional policies and procedures
were in place at the time the violation of NCAA rules occurred and whether those policies and
procedures, if adequate, were being monitored and enforced
One more time, because I can tell you love using the quote button to be an asshole.
those policies and
procedures, if adequate, were being monitored and enforced
MONITORED. ENFORCED.
If Ohio State had ANY knowledge of ANY of this, they did not enforce it. If they had NO knowledge, the didn’t monitor it.
I think I fucking know what ‘lack of institutional control’ means and you are an asshole Ohio State fan who sent me to HIS OWN ARTICLE TO FIND THE DEFINITION OF ‘lack of institutional control’. No. I’m sick of your little “forum slots” and “tokens” gag to make me look like an idiot. YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
Oh yes, and hypothetical.
assumed by hypothesis; supposed: a hypothetical case.
of, pertaining to, involving, or characterized by hypothesis
I believe YOU made a hypothesis based on the Alabama case. And I believe that PERFECTLY fits my definition. I don’t know what definitions you make up, but I tend to follow them pretty clearly.
You obviously have WAYY too much school pride, a stick up your ass, or care to not have friends. I would be willing to bet there are a few, if not many Ohio State fans that just want you to shut the fuck up right now.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
by Gookin on Jun 1, 2011 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh,
And telling me that I will never be right just proves that you are ignorant. Your name SCREAMS ignorant. Calling me an asshole for calling you ignorant is ridiculous when you ARE ignorant. This isn’t about anyone else. Not Jim Tressel. Not any other OSU fan. Just you. YOU are being ignorant.
Ignorant: uninformed; unaware.
You are COMPLETELY unaware that you are being an asshole. And I believe you are COMPLETELY uninformed on this situation.
Since you think that Bama is the only case to ever happen on the history of the planet, I will show you an article comparing Boise State’s recent ‘lack of institutional control’ vs. Ohio State so far. It’s here, and if you opened your eyes and read it, you might find that “Oh shit, maybe for once I am wrong.” This IS NOT OVER. PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND QUIT TRYING TO BE OHIO STATE’S LAWYER.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
by Gookin on Jun 1, 2011 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Please enter some more tokens.
Seriously, stop being an asshole. Like. Seriously. Telling me I don’t know the definition of this and that doesn’t make you look smarter, doesn’t make anyone want to believe you more, and definitely doesn’t make you not look like an asshole.
Your personal opinion of me is irrelevant to my entertainment.
You don’t know anything of substance of how NCAA infractions are handled. I am simply being honest.
If it frustrates you… you are on the internet at a keyboard – educate yourself.
MONITORED. ENFORCED.
You really should have went back to the source before challenging me on the content of my own blog.
Monitoring and enforcement refers to the Universities compliance department monitoring and enforcing its procedures. It was their monitoring that revealed the Tresel e-mails.
The NCAA does not hold programs is not held accountable for the willful transgressions of an individual.
Please insert 4 tokens and try again – this is the stupid things you put forth when you try to fit the facts and evidence to your conclusion.
I believe YOU made a hypothesis based on the Alabama case. And I believe that PERFECTLY fits my definition.
If you have to narrowly define the definition to validate your assertion, you don’t have a valid assertion.
Comparing 2 similar situations is not a hypothesis, no matter how many time you rephrase it.
You obviously have WAYY too much school pride, a stick up your ass, or care to not have friends. I would be willing to bet there are a few, if not many Ohio State fans that just want you to shut the fuck up right now.
If you had a valid point, you wouldn’t need to use explicatives to reinforce it.
This is the stupid position you place yourself in when you start with the conclusion and try to fit the evidence to support it. You will find it works much better if you educate yourself to the facts, then base your conclusion on the evidence.
You highly overestimate the effort needed to reveal your lack of knowledge. I am just killing time at the airport and work.
And telling me that I will never be right just proves that you are ignorant.
Your lack of knowledge isn’t a point to be debated at this juncture – it is a given.
You start with the conclusion and try to fit the evidence to support it. It would be pure coincidence if you ever derived the correct conclusion in this manner.
Calling me an asshole for calling you ignorant is ridiculous
I don’t recall using this term. It appears you are you slipping into a fantasy hyper-reality where you are finding it difficult to differentiate between the real world, your private thoughts, and cyberspace.
YOU are being ignorant.
I am not the party here suffering a Tourettes fit because you got caught arguing issues you haver no knowledge of.
You ignorance of NCAA procedures in these cases has been readily shown.
And I believe you are COMPLETELY uninformed on this situation.
Possession of knowledge you lack is not even close to the definition of uninformed. No 5 paragraph rant will change that.
Since you think that Bama is the only case to ever happen on the history of the planet,
This is false. I think it is the closest commonly know incident to the selling of memorabilia.
If you had a valid point, you wouldn’t feel the need to exaggerate.
I will show you an article comparing Boise State’s recent ‘lack of institutional control’ vs. Ohio State so far.
Interesting, but starting at the phrase “So let me get this straight…” the author clearly shows he is unaware why OSU is not facing lack of institutional control. it seems he is focusing more on the quantity and severitry of the infractions than the NCAA qualifications for the penalty.
Absolutely nothing in the article supports your earlier assertions of the penalty, but I will give you a star for trying to educate yourself on the issue. I addressed the authors concerns in the blog.
by ProveIt on Jun 2, 2011 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I shit myself. I literally just shit myself.
Goodnight, that is all.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
by Gookin on Jun 2, 2011 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I had already assumed...
…that was the basis for all of your posts.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
by Gookin on Jun 2, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Open that image in a new tab or something.
You’ll be surprised how accurate the features are.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
Nobody claimed conspiracy.
If you have to manufacture an assertion to oppose, you aren’t opposing anything.
Prove it.
"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy
by BentNotBroken on Jun 2, 2011 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Prove what hasn't happened didn't happen?
…so much for critical thinking.
by ProveIt on Jun 3, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. So much for critical thinking. The one thing you have proven.
"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy
by BentNotBroken on Jun 3, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt you know...
…the definition of critical thinking.
You doubt a lot of things Mr. Human Dictionary.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
It carries no weight to...
…accuse someone of trying to look smart…
…when you use terms you don’t know to try to make yourself look smart.
Recruiting others with nothing to add will only add to my entertainment.
If you had a valid point, you would have made it a LONG time ago.
by ProveIt on Jun 4, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
TRYING to look smart???
Hahahahahaha… okay. You are the one who basically called me an idiot for not knowing the definition of terms I defined and supported.
And to accuse me of ‘recruiting’ people is ridiculous.
Also, one thing that has annoyed me this whole time is your use of ‘we’.
We realize you don’t know what you are talking about
Who is we? You and what army? Not that it ‘carries any weight’, but my comments have been recommended 18 times on here. Yours haven’t once. So if one of use should use the word ‘we’, it should be me. But I speak for myself. I don’t speak for Iowa fans or the Big Ten. I speak for me and I suggest you do the same for yourself.
You need to realize that these things COULD happen to Ohio State. Other Ohio State fans have argued the SAME points that you have, but are more accepting of the situation than you. They don’t think they are right like you do. Heck, I haven’t told you that you are wrong this whole time. All I want is for you to open your mind a little and quit being so close minded. You have flat out told me I was wrong. You can’t do that. You just can’t. This thing isn’t over and acting like it is will only disappoint you. Quit trying to prove people wrong when all you have done is make yourself look like a close minded asshole.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
by Gookin on Jun 4, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is false
You are the one who basically called me an idiot for not knowing the definition of terms I defined and supported.
This is false. I infer you are ignorant on the subject.
I call you an idiot for arguing at length what you don’t understand.
And to accuse me of ‘recruiting’ people is ridiculous.
While I admit recruiting others is ridiculous, I assert it is the purpose for your comment —> here
…trying to run from your previous posts seems to be common for you.
Who is we?
This is true – you are my personal squeaky toy now.
my comments have been recommended 18 times on here
The popularity of an opinion or the way it is prosed carries no weight.
Other Ohio State fans have argued the SAME points that you have, but are more accepting of the situation than you.
Please enter 4 tokens and try again. I have not argued no further punishment is coming, only that the punishment will follow the NCAAs standard practices.
I haven’t told you that you are wrong this whole time.
This is a lie – just peruse your comments in this thread.
All I want is for you to open your mind a little and quit being so close minded.
If you ever have an assertion based in fact or supported by evidence, it will be considered. Opinions based in ignorance of the NCAA practices, no matter how they are prosed, are still based in ignorance and carry no weight.
You have flat out told me I was wrong. You can’t do that. You just can’t.
Yes, I can… and I have posted the evidence to support it. Your denial of the facts will not change the facts.
This thing isn’t over and acting like it is will only disappoint you.
Awesome – i love it when people play forum slots.
If you are referring to the broader OSU topic, I never claimed it was over. If you have to change the comments of the OP to have a point, you don’t have a point.
Quit trying to prove people wrong when all you have done is make yourself look like a close minded asshole.
Your opinion of me is irrelevant. You frustration is entertaining. Your lack of knowledge on the subject has been shown.
by ProveIt on Jun 4, 2011 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sorry.
I’m sorry for having an opinion. I’m sorry I’m so uneducated. I’m sorry that you had to pick me, out of all the people who argue my same point, to argue with, because I try to defend myself and obviously that wasn’t good enough. You must be an NCAA representative because you seem to know exactly what they will do in every single situation. I’m sorry I didn’t catch on to that earlier.
I will also apologize in advance if Ohio State DOES get LOIC penalties, because if they do, there was obviously an error somewhere or a hidden definition you couldn’t find. Because there is certainly NO POSSIBLE WAY that they could get LOIC. And if there is, you fooled me. Not only did you shoot down every point I made, because obviously I’m not educated enough on the manner, but you also neglected to give me a reason why there COULD be LOIC. But whatever. Sorry.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
I’m sorry for having an opinion.
I don’t fault you for your opinion. I fault you for trying to fit the facts to your conclusion – you will find it works much better if you form your conclusion based on the facts.
I’m sorry I’m so uneducated.
I never claimed you were uneducated, I do fault you for arguing at length what you do not understand.
If you had a valid point, you wouldn’t feel the need to exaggerate.
I’m sorry that you had to pick me, out of all the people who argue my same point, to argue with, because I try to defend myself and obviously that wasn’t good enough.
When you start your 1st comment in a thread with “This is the reason so many people hate Ohio State and their fans. Complete ignorance” you earn a big zero on the sympathy meter, trying to play martyr, crying because of your ignorance of the subject was readily revealed.
You must be an NCAA representative because you seem to know exactly what they will do in every single situation.
Please enter 4 tokens and try again. I never claimed to know their exact reaction, only the consistency. – you on the other hand have shown no knowledge whatsoever of how they operate.
I will also apologize in advance if Ohio State DOES get LOIC penalties, because if they do, there was obviously an error somewhere or a hidden definition you couldn’t find.
No apology needed. Unlike yourself, I not only trust they work in a fair manner, i trust they work in a consistent manner.
NO POSSIBLE WAY that they could get LOIC.
I never claimed this. If you have to reform the OP stance on make your point seem valid, you don’t have a valid point.
And if there is, you fooled me. Not only did you shoot down every point I made, because obviously I’m not educated enough on the manner, but you also neglected to give me a reason why there COULD be LOIC. But whatever. Sorry.
You highly overestimate the effort required to shoot down your assertions. You start with the conclusion and attempt to fit the evidence – it would be pure coincidence if you were ever right.
…now play the martyr some more and cry me some more tears… I am loving this.
by ProveIt on Jun 5, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Okay.
Look at the definition for Lack of Institutional Control up in my comment. I don’t see how Ohio State’s lack of reporting the violations and their covering up does not fit that definition. And I KNOW you will say ‘they did report it.’ Well so did Boise State, but they got LOIC. Yes, they self penalized themselves for it, but why should Ohio State get away with the same (if not bigger) violations after LYING about it for a year and the compliance department not reporting it for up to a year after Jim Tressel knew about it?? And don’t pull the ’That’s Jim Tressel’s deal, not Ohio State’s’ when that is the same argument USC had with Reggie Bush, but the NCAA ruled against that.
Yes, you are good at making me look bad, but I don’t like that you call me uneducated on the situation when, as you can see I have a legitimate argument. And it’s not like I’m the ONLY one arguing this. And my argument is just as good as anyone else’s when it comes to this. Yet you make me look like I’m from another planet for trying to argue it.
Ohio State didn’t enforce the rules if they knew the violations before, and didn’t monitor well if they didn’t know of the violations. Boise State’s compliance department reported this while Ohio State has tried to avoid it. They tried avoiding firing Tressel, they HAVE avoided firing Gene Smith or the prez, and they are definitely trying to avoid self-imposing penalties. Idk why. Stay superior? Try to keep order at the university? I dont know.
Just please tell me how I’m trying to ‘fit’ my argument into the definition when it’s written out in that exact way.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
Peep playing those tokens, hoping for a $2 payout for $98 in coins...
Look at the definition for Lack of Institutional Control up in my comment.
Problem #1 – your definition of Lack of Institutional Control is irrelevant.
Follow my link to summary of its application and exceptions, or follow the blog’s link to a detailed explanation.
If you have to narrowly define terms to make your assertion appear valid, you don’t have a valid assertion.
I don’t see how Ohio State’s lack of reporting the violations and their covering up does not fit that definition.
If you substitute the NCAAs application for your own, don’t expect to reach a valid conclusion..
There is no golden phrase which will take your assertion from a falsehood to validity. The universe just doesn’t work that way.
Your conclusion was derived absent of knowledge of the NCAAs definition of the infraction – it would be pure coincidence if you ever derived the correct conclusion fitting the evidence to your assertion.
From the blog and its source…
…the NCAA does not expect a college or university to control the actions of every individual who is in some way connected with its athletics program.
A violation is not considered due to a lack of institutional control if adequate compliance measures exist, adequate training exists, these precautions are monitored to ensure they are followed, and the institution takes swift action when they are aware of a violation.
Adequate training – those violating the rules were aware of the rules.
Monitoring – Tressel’s e-mails were found during an independent search with no NCAA investigation underway, nobody would expect OSU to know a tattoo parlor owner on the other side of town is in possession of player’s awards, or to know the players sold their awards.
Swift action – the initial sanctions against Tressel happened within 1 day of their discovery.
why should Ohio State get away with the same (if not bigger) violations after LYING about it for a year and the compliance department not reporting it for up to a year after Jim Tressel knew about it??
This is a lie Jim Tressel does not equal compliance department. The compliance department reported as soon as they were aware.
This is a lie They will not get away with the violations – all violations are being punished.
This is a lie Nobody lied for a year. 1 person didn’t report his knowledge.
If you have to lie to add validity to your assertion, you don’t have a valid assertion.
Yes, you are good at making me look bad
This is false You make yourself look bad, I just point out your obvious lack of knowledge, lies, exaggerations, attempts to bend the evidence to your conclusions, and attempts to play forum slots, hoping that playing $98 in tokens will result in a $2 payout.
but I don’t like that you call me uneducated on the situation when, as you can see I have a legitimate argument.
Your like or dislike is irrelevant.
If you have to lie, exaggerate, and bend the facts to your assertion, you do not have a legitimate argument.
And it’s not like I’m the ONLY one arguing this.
The number of people who hold a belief does not determine its accuracy.
Ohio State didn’t enforce the rules if they knew the violations before, and didn’t monitor well if they didn’t know of the violations. Boise State’s compliance department reported this while Ohio State has tried to avoid it.
This is a lie. Tressel is not Ohio state. As cited above, the program is not held liable for people knowingly breaking the rules, limiting the punishment to the violation.
Just please tell me how I’m trying to ‘fit’ my argument into the definition when it’s written out in that exact way.
Nobody accused you of this. I do accuse you of fitting the evidence to your the conclusion, not basing your conclusion on the evidence.
Misapplication of the NCAA definition as they apply it without viewing their entire process, redefining or narrowly defining common terms, substituting Tressel for the program and compliance department, and now outright lying – all done in search of a golden phrase which will take a falsehood to truth. Unfortunately for you, the universe doesn’t work that way.
For more examples, see previous comments.
First:
My definition of LOIC is NOT irrelevant. That was DIRECTLY from the NCAA site. Saying that I ‘narrowly defined’ it is funny, considering that is the simplest, broadest definition of LOIC you can find on that site. YOU are ‘narrowly defining’ it by telling me all the loopholes and such.
And one thing I noticed was that you avoided the Reggie Bush argument. This is a pretty valid argument when you quote the NCAA saying they don’t expect a college to control the actions of an individual, yet USC had 2 years of bowl bans and 30(?) scholarship losses. That included LOIC. You say you know how the NCAA does it’s sanctions, yet sometimes the NCAA themselves are unpredictable. And I wouldn’t imagine that Ohio State would get off easy while Boise State and USC got pretty harsh penalties for their crimes.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
Please enter 4 more tokens...
My definition of LOIC is NOT irrelevant. That was DIRECTLY from the NCAA site.. Saying that I ‘narrowly defined’ it is funny, considering that is the simplest, broadest definition of LOIC you can find on that site.
It is a partial definition which does not include exceptions. The only significant definition is that which the NCAA applies, including exceptions.
If you have to limit the definition to make your assertion seem valid, you don’t have a valid assertion.
YOU are ‘narrowly defining’ it by telling me all the loopholes and such.
I don’t think you know the definition of narrow. When the NCAA states “This is not LOIC” it becomes part of the definition.
You find it counter to your assertion and therefore want to ignore it, but it is part of the definition.
And one thing I noticed was that you avoided the Reggie Bush argument.
The NCAA did not lower the hammer on USC because of 1 players excesses. USC was hammered because they were deemed not to have adequate measures in place to detect transgressions like those of Bush.
…another glaring example of your ignorance on the topic…
And I wouldn’t imagine that Ohio State would get off easy while Boise State and USC got pretty harsh penalties for their crimes.
An opinion born out of ignorance of the topic carries no weight.
Perhaps you would like to tell us again that "TWENTY-EIGHT. That number alone will lead to ‘lack of institutional control’ penalties WITHOUT a ton of evidence. " – you have posted too many fallacies to claim yourself knowledgeable at this point.
Think TP could use some more NCAA tokens?
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by BentNotBroken on Jun 7, 2011 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Prove it?
"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy
by BentNotBroken on Jun 9, 2011 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Also
http://deadspin.com/5807082/jim-tressels-former-qb-says-the-allegations-are-a-big-lie
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by Ian_InsideTheShoe on Jun 1, 2011 7:45 AM CDT reply actions
So...
you are willing to believe this guy, but didn’t believe Ray Small? Yet Ray small was 100% correct and was part of the reason all of this is being uncovered and Tressel got fired? When OSU fans start becoming selective when it comes to things they want to hear, I normally tune it out. OSU called Ray Small a liar, turns out he was right. This guy.. pshh..
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
Haha
No, I was just pointing to an article of interest. If it was a big deal, it would be on the front page of my site.
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by Ian_InsideTheShoe on Jun 1, 2011 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Ray Small...
…revelaed what was already known about additional players selling memorabilia.
Ray small was 100% correct
His belief he got a good deal on a used Dodge mimics what everyone believes what almost everyone believes when they purchase a car…. unless you know details nobody else does.
When OSU fans start becoming selective when it comes to things they want to hear, I normally tune it out.
Tuning out viewpoints that don’t fit with your opinions could explain your lack of knowledge of NCAA sanctions.
So
all those football players that called him a liar are the ones that lied apparently. Because if all of this was ‘known’ already, no one would have listened. But instead everyone called him a liar and that he was making stuff up. Now it was revealed that 28 players did exactly what he said they did.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
Pleae enter 4 tokens and try again
all those football players that called him a liar are the ones that lied apparently
They weren’t calling every line Small uttered a lie.
Because if all of this was ‘known’ already, no one would have listened.
The released e-mail noted Riffe had memorabilia from former players.
This was known and entered into evidence with the NCAA.
But you are forgetting that NO ONE LISTENED.
Ohio State fans said ‘We never liked him anyway’ and said he lied. Now it’s revealed that 28 players did it— during the time period he said other players did do it. At that point, nobody knew of the 28 players. A day after he said this the report was released.
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
Please enter 4 tokens and try again
At that point, nobody knew of the 28 players.
They were aware of other players from evidence given the NCAA.
They did not have any names to pursue. Small did not reveal anything not already known.
Ohio State fans said ‘We never liked him anyway’ and said he lied.
Can you attest that everything Small aid was the 100% truth as you exalt?
Claiming Small lied does not equate to claiming every comment made by Small was a lie, no matter how many ways you rephrase it.
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