Big Ten 2011 // MSU Cheerleader Kailey Forbes Talks Spartan Football and Life in the Cheer Trenches
Coworkers are always different. Sometimes your office is next to Erik, the angry 57 year old financial analyst who doesn't believe in showers or human communication. And sometimes you work with a 22 year old sweetheart who just happens to be an MSU cheerleader.
During this last year, I was fortunate enough to work daily with Kailey Forbes, the aforementioned Spartan. At OTE, we try and cover all aspects of Big Ten college football, so why not give the cheerleaders some air time? As part of MSU Week here on OTE, I hope you enjoy this feature article as we give Kailey the floor. Some of her discussion points:
Most unruly fanbase was in...South Bend?
Cheerleading is dangerous. Except not really, if you know what the hell you're doing.
Spartan Stadium as a football venue? A great one, especially while standing on the 50 yard line.
Hello! State your name and your connection with Big Ten football.
Hello! My name is Kailey Forbes and I cheered four years at Michigan State University on the Co-ed, Varsity team.
There are people who think cheerleading isn't a sport. What do you think?
I believe that cheerleading is just as much of a sport as any other based on the amount of physical activity included as well as the element of competition that is involved. Competitions exist for cheerleaders just like every other sport. Just like football, basketball or soccer, we have tryouts, create a routine (much like plays in football or basketball), we practice those routines to perfect our skills, and then we compete against other teams. There are winners and losers. There are good and bad teams just like in every other sport.

I wanted to cheer at State because I love the sport of cheerleading. I wanted to continue to participate in an activity that I absolutely loved to do. Michigan State was a perfect choice to participate in a collegiate sport because of its Big Ten reputation as well as the continued traditions at the University. The alma mater, fight song, and Sparty, among many others, are a few traditional aspects of what makes Michigan State so unique.
Another reason for my participation in cheerleading at State is my love of football and the awesome fan base that Michigan State has, especially at home games. There is no better feeling than standing on the 50 yard line at Spartan Stadium as 70,000 fans roar to the sound of the team running out of the tunnel. Just being a part of Michigan State football was an amazing experience, not to mention the excitement each game presented in the last 4 years because of how well our team did.
I read somewhere that cheerleading is the most dangerous sport in America. Did your squad do any stunting or moves that us normal folk would consider dangerous? What are your thoughts on stunting and throwing 100 lb girls 20 feet in the air?
Those injuries that do occur can be more severe than other sports due to the flipping, twisting, and height factors that come into play while we do what we love. I believe that anything we do on the field or at practice would be considered dangerous to people not familiar with cheerleading because it IS dangerous. However, we are always safe. We use people to spot until we get very comfortable with the stunt, and even after we will continue to use a person to spot the more dangerous stunts we perform. I personally love to fly through the air. We have done this for so many years that it is second nature for us to stand on top of someone's hands 10 feet in the air.

You're a cheerleader. That means you get to travel free to tons of football games. Did you enjoy cheering for State? Was there a part of the college football cheerleader experience that was particularly difficult?
Cheering for State was one of the best experiences of my life. Everything about cheerleading could be difficult, but it was the result that made all the hard work and sacrifices worth it. Cheerleading wasn't just getting to travel and cheer on the field and basketball court. It consisted of physically exhausting practices, summer conditioning, year-round commitment, marketing and fundraising events, overcoming injuries, early mornings, late nights, but mostly a lot of time. In the end, we got out of it everything that we put in.
You got to see Greg Jones, Kirk Cousins, Mark Dell, Otis Wiley, Javon Ringer...and other NFL-caliber Spartans. Was there a player who made you say...my goodness, he's a brilliant football player?
Probably...Javon Ringer.
While you attended State, you went to the Capitol One Bowl twice, the Champs Sports bowl, and the Alamo Bowl in Texas. Did you have a favorite Bowl experience?
My favorite Bowl Experience was definitely the Alamo Bowl in San Antonio, Texas. We had such a large group of fans travel down to Texas which made for an exciting game. You couldn't walk anywhere in town without seeing a Michigan State fan. It felt like home. The pep rally and pre-game were on the river walk which was decorated with lights for the New Year celebration, so it was beautiful. The team was pumped for the game as were all the fans which also made for a great experience.

You got to play, and beat Michigan three times during your career. Tell me about cheering in Ann Arbor. Tell me what it was like to beat UM consistently.
Cheering in Ann Arbor and coming out on top 3 years in a row is a terrific feeling. There is nothing better than competing against your rival and winning, especially in their own stadium. Surprisingly, Michigan fans were not the meanest that we encountered. Even though the games are intense, I believe that it still exists to be a friendly rivalry between the two universities.
Was there one stadium in the Big Ten where you were slightly afraid to cheer or where it was especially rowdy?
Not in the Big Ten. Notre Dame fans were slightly rowdy at their home field, and not just the students but also the adults. That is the only instance in which I can remember feeling uncomfortable at an away game. Everywhere else fans were the same; some nice, some rude, but all wanting to beat us. At Notre Dame it was a little more rowdy, the Irish fans were ruthless.
Were there any other Big Ten cheerleading quads that you liked seeing perform?
Most of the Big Ten cheer teams had very different traditions and ways of cheerleading. My favorite team to watch was Penn State. They were very collegiate.

What's your favorite Big Ten college town besides East Lansing?
Madison, Wisconsin would be my favorite Big Ten college town besides East Lansing. I believe they had a lot of school spirit and the campus itself was pretty.
East Lansing. College town. Discuss.
Amazing. Everything in East Lansing surrounds the campus and revolves around Michigan State. The campus is beautiful, active, and full of tradition which can be seen in our historic buildings and large smokestack in the center of the campus. Game days are the best. Everyone is up at the crack of dawn tailgating and preparing for the game. The fight song can be heard all throughout the campus. Everyone is welcome to have a great time, which is what we Spartans love to do. Go Green! Go White!

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This is a feature
I think we can ALL agree, should be weekly
With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage
by BuckeyeSki on Jun 22, 2011 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
yes
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jun 22, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree.
I mean, if I were a cheerleader from a B1G school, I would LOVE to take an interview for the team. One from each school please. I don’t care if it’s not Nebraska or Iowa’s week. I wanna see a cheerleader post from every school, damn it!
"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback
by Gookin on Jun 22, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chrissy Cox every week.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Jun 22, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll nominate myself to take pictures of OSU cheerleaders, seeing as how I'm on campus already haha!
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
Sweetie, if you have to wait for the judges to tell you who won, it ain't a sport.
by Albino Tornado on Jun 22, 2011 10:04 AM CDT reply actions
So you're counting boxing out?
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Under current rules, yes.
If the scorecards were being displayed publicly during the match, no.
by Albino Tornado on Jun 22, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Well that's pretty dumb.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
I was going to argue this...
…but then realized that all my points (judges colluding to rig the outcome, no accountability for their decisions, etc) can be said of many sports I do enjoy (soccer: see US/Slovenia as one of many examples of soccer officials who aren’t accountable for their mistakes, the cheating NBA referee, etc). I guess my instinct to agree with his stance is that the setup of judging for things like boxing are just done is a way that is way more secretive and seemingly more subjective.
Exactly.
If the scores aren’t public – and everyone isn’t playing at the same time (q.v. cheerleading) – how is it not easily riggable?
by Albino Tornado on Jun 22, 2011 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points_shaving
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Well, because like boxing, if you know the sport you should know who is winning/losing
If you know cheerleading, I’m assuming it’s the same way. If you know snowboarding superpipe, same. If you know this guy…..
YOU KNOW THIS IS EPIC!!!!
Skol!
It's still subjective. Much more than 21-14 would be.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
I get it. The scoring system in major sports is pretty cut and dry who is winning/losing at all times
But “performance” sports require the entire performance to be good(or at least better than the opponents) to win. Referees are just like judges in that they are very subjective and can change the outcome of the game. The only difference is that Refs are only involved in portions of the game whereas Judges gives the thumbs up to which team they felt was better. BTW, those judges for “performance” sports have a point-system that they look at when determining the winner. If they’re doing their jobs correctly, the team with the most points wins, just like in football/basketball/baseball/hockey or any other mainstream sport.
Skol!
Hmmm...
Referees are just like judges in that they are very subjective and can change the outcome of the game.
Especially when the Vikings play the Packers. God damn refs.
"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."
I didn't really want to get into specifics, but yes, excellent example
They don’t necessarily say outright who the winner is, but they damn sure have a lot to do with who is awarded points throughout the contest. Don’t believe me? Ask the Lions.
Skol!
"The previous play is under review"
I’m not a big fan of judged sports either, but it can’t be any more subjective/random than fouls in basketball or how much extra time is added at the end of a soccer match.
The soccer timing rules are asinine, as are the 2 game series rules. Play a damn odd numbered game series!
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
2-leg soccer "series" are technically considered one long game
a home leg and an away leg. It’s not about W or L, it’s about cumulative score, so it’s a little different than a classic sports “series”.
The 2 match championship does provide some strange and sometimes exciting tactical craziness. Like a team could be WINNING 2-1 in the 2nd match after having lost the first match 3-1 and have to attack and go gangbusters for the 3rd goal instead of sitting back on the 2-1 lead. That said, when talking about championships, I’d rather see a straight up 3-game series, with postseason hockey rules (no draws).
Honey, misogyny in any form...
…has no place at this website.
by Chadnudj on Jun 22, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
And I should clarify...
…I totally respect your opinion on whether cheerleading is a sport (even if I disagree with you). It’s the whole “sweetie” aspect I find a bit distasteful to our guest who took time to answer some questions.
by Chadnudj on Jun 22, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ron Franklin doesn't see what's wrong with it.
2004 BCS National Champion Purdue Boilermakers
by purwho on Jun 22, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
See, someone got the joke there
Hint – it wasn’t Jeannine Edwards.
by Albino Tornado on Jun 22, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Holly Rowe was, iirc, the first offense.
“It’s not giving up. It’s 49-21, sweetheart.”
by Albino Tornado on Jun 22, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Stop making me group you with Fake Pelini
by OctaShields on Jun 22, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
FIVE NATIONAL CHAMPEEEOWNSHIPS!
/yeee haw
"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy
by BentNotBroken on Jun 22, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
/bentnotbroken fake pelini’d octashields
by Fake Pelini on Jun 22, 2011 1:36 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with this completely. It's a competition.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
I'd still argue that NASCAR isn't a sport
and you do know who won.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 24, 2011 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Done.
With spokesperson’s like Kailey, MSU is looking up.
"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants
agreed
I especially liked -
Those injuries that do occur can be more severe than other sports due to the flipping, twisting, and height factors that come into play while we do what we love. I believe that anything we do on the field or at practice would be considered dangerous to people not familiar with cheerleading because it IS dangerous.
That’s well said.
Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.
by Graham Filler on Jun 22, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Can we get a definition for:
Cheer Trenches
With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage
Its where Jim Tressel will be spending the rest of his career.
by Fake Pelini on Jun 22, 2011 11:44 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I believe that.
also could see ND developing a nasty inferiority complex with Sparty based on each programs recent accomishments or lack there of
"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy
by BentNotBroken on Jun 22, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
I have to agree regarding ND fans.
As a grad student I have had the experience of escorting some ND fans out of the science building. One of them was a middle aged man behaving like a 20 yr old. Jackass!
total arrogance about being a ND alumni.
I hope the big ten never includes them in our conference. Who needs them when every school in the B1G will get >$25 million from the network. That is more than what NBC throws at ND every year.
by spartynation on Jun 22, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Notre Dame has a LOT of fans with no direct ties to the school . . .
Thus, their football crowds can be more similar to pro football crowds, which always have a ton of obnoxious tools in them.
So does every popular, traditional power school.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
That was fantastic!
Thanks to Kailey for doing this.
"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."
Nice Interview
I really enjoy the articles on the culture surrounding B10 football. It’s great to get a glimpse into these kinds of perspectives.
Has anyone noticed that in every picture of Dantonio
it looks like there is pure evil bubbling under the surface. Seriously, find me a picture of Dantonio where it DOESN’T look like he’s smugly satisfied that he’s just buried another body without getting caught or is biding his time to pull off some kind of atrocity.
His eyes in the first picture are the most haunting…



He reminds me a lot of Nixon.
"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."
by mvrck on Jun 22, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
If he were still coaching at Ohio State that would be money, not confetti.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
by Jon Ross on Jun 22, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Now that you mention it...
Big Ten football: All day. Every day.
Okay, minus a few hours here and there.
Was there actually writing for this?
All I saw was the pics… GOOD JOB!
by Grixxly on Jun 22, 2011 12:23 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think I've met this gal...
Snuck on the floor before the NCAA regionals in St. Loo a couple years ago (me on teh right)

Kill, Bubba, Kill!
ahhhh
Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.
by Graham Filler on Jun 22, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Foam headed mascots don't sneak on the floor
"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy
by BentNotBroken on Jun 22, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Cheerleading is more of a sport than baseball.
And I am willing to fight over that.
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
Not all those who wander are lost. /////// I dont mind stealing bread.
It takes a lot of athleticism to do whatever the fuck this is.

"All you need is bacon and a dream."
by jc001 on Jun 22, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Moshing
your doing it wrong
With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage
Cocaine & Red Bull
You’re doing it right.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Jun 23, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
She is either excited or having a seizure
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
Not all those who wander are lost. /////// I dont mind stealing bread.
by nateforchiefs on Jun 22, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't disregard the possibility
that it’s both
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 24, 2011 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe more athletically demanding. But still requires a judge to determine a winner.
For example, I love gymnastics, that shit is incredible and is something I’ll never be able to do, but it isn’t a sport, it’s a competition. Doesn’t make it bad, it just is impossible to determine a winner without a 3rd party.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
by Jon Ross on Jun 22, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This...
…does a better job of articulating what I was trying to get to above. The problems with judging can be found in most (all?) sports but the difference is that in those sports it is technically (though not practically) possible to determine a winner in ways that are not wholly dependent on the subjective opinions of a predetermined number of people.
I think you guys keep confusing a game with 'sport'
Sport: an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
Game: a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amusement or for that of spectators
by Captain n Diet Coker on Jun 23, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
CnDC, couldn't have said it better myself
/dictionary.com’d
Sure, a 3rd party judge ultimately determines the winner, but that doesn’t mean #1: there is a scoring system(just no scoreboard) and #2: Refs don’t interfere with the scoring system of a football/basketball (holding/fouls are the most subjective calls in any sports)
Skol!
The Alamo Bowl
Have heard a TON of people say how great of a venue, location, and roadtrip that bowl is. I, for one, would like to see the Big 10 get back in the rotation for it. Much rather go to San Antonio than Jacksonville or Dallas.
Always the non-NYD bowl...
…I was most pissed the Gophers never went to. I was in SA during the Alamo Bowl my soph year of college for a xmas basketball trip (went to a D-III school FWIW). Iowa was playing Texas Tech and I would agree, the atmosphere down on the Riverwalk was awesome. Fans from each team would chant at each other (was always in a fun, good natured way when I saw it) and fans of the same team had lots of fun doing chants with each other as they walked by or, in many cases, rode by on boats.
Well, Nebraska's undefeated there
So I’m totally okay with it. (Michigan, Michigan State, and N’Western may not agree.)
by Albino Tornado on Jun 22, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
By that logic
we’re not OK with any bowl site, save for Pasadena circa 1949.
by MNWildcat on Jun 22, 2011 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Cheerleading is just not a sport
Requiring physical exertion does not make something a sport. Construction work, for example, requires just as much exertion yet it’s not a sport. Being judged a winner and loser does not make something a sport. Beauty pageants, for example, are judged and there are winners and losers yet it is not a sport. Cheerleading does have it’s own challenges and not anyone can do it, so those who cheer do not need to argue with me that it requires some sort of acquired skill and practice, but it just isn’t a sport.
so take a second then, WearShades,
And explain what exactly makes a sport a sport?
Because I’ve argued a million times that neither golf nor nascar are sports on the premise that:
if your fat and out of shape or old
and you can do it “professionally” it isn’t a sport.
Otherwise, I’d be a call of duty athlete.
by Fake Pelini on Jun 22, 2011 6:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
My personal standard is whether there's offense and defense
Baseball? Yes
Football? Obviously
Basketball, Hockey, Soccer, Lacrosse, Water Polo…? Yes
Bowling? Not to me. Golf? Nope. Cheerleading? No
These latter things I would classify as competitions but not sports. If you do not have the ability to directly influence your opponent, I don’t think of it as a sport.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
yeah but
that still leaves the door open for video games, which is something you can do while not even being in shape at all… and Politics.
I like the directly influencing the opponent thing, but that means hunting and chess are sports, which, lets be real, those are hobbies.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
I thought physical activity was a given
To me a sport involves physical activity and the ability to directly influence your opponent (leading to the strategic element of sport)
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
so swimming, diving, skiing, track and field etc are not sports?
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jun 22, 2011 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
No
They are competitions. This is not to take away at all from the physical activity and talent required, but I don’t think of these as sports.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
So we are totally throwing out the very definition of the word?
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jun 22, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
It was thrown out when someone decided to label golf a sport
by Fake Pelini on Jun 23, 2011 7:43 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think competitions and races should be seperate.
Competitions = judge determines who beats who
Races = you beat your opponent on your own, but can’t control his/her actions
Sports = you beat your opponent by controlling his/her actions
All require athleticism and skill, but are all very different.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
By your definitions though,
every athletic event would be a competition. Even the athletic events that you would consider a sport, like basketball, football and baseball, would be competitions. In each of those athletic events, it’s the team that the referee or umpire awards the most points or runs to that wins. One example off the top of my head happened in Game 1 of the Thunder-Grizzlies series. In that game, Perkins tipped in a Westbrook miss by going through the basket, which technically should not have counted, but the Thunder were awarded the points anyway, which determined the winner. See http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2011-04-18/nba-says-kendrick-perkins-basket-shouldve-been-offensive-goaltending.
Regardless of what you want to call it, the reality is that they are all competitions in that each team or competitor is vying for supremacy. Each athletic event has a set of rules and scoring by which the victor is determined. Just because we may not understand the scoring system does not mean that the competition is not a “sport.”
by Boston_Torpedo on Jun 23, 2011 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
You can play football and basketball and determine winners without refs.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
But that would alter the game to the point it would no longer be the same (insert whatever word).
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jun 23, 2011 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Basketball is basketball, regardless of refs, players can count their own score and call their own fouls. Gymnastics is just artful movement without judges. They can't give themselves points, it's too biased.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
Just
because you don’t have “official” referees does not mean that you do not have somebody judging. All it means is that the participants have appointed themselves the referees.
Whether it’s football, basketball or cheerleading, all of these athletic events have set rules by which a participant may score points, which ultimately determines the victor. Just because the “sports” that you’re more familiar with have rules that make it easier for you to distinguish who scores does not mean that it’s much different (or more of a “sport”) than say gymnastics or figure skating.
Also, based upon your comment, I’m going to assume that you’ve never tried playing a pickup basketball game in a Boston YMCA.
by Boston_Torpedo on Jun 23, 2011 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Pickup games at the RPAC are my forte haha.
I just think it’s much easier to arbitrarily assign points in MMA, Cheer, Gymnastics etc. than football or basketball. No one can argue the ball went in the hoop—we all saw it—but there can be 3 different interpretations of someone “sticking the dismount.” It’s too subjective.
"What do we have here?"
"We're going to Saint Croix."
"We are? Oh, goody. I'm so happy."
"Well, I hope you're happy for us, because it's just Carrie and me."
"I see. Once again I humiliate myself by assuming that I'm a member of this family."
-Arthur and Doug, bantering about the Heffernan's vacation plans
–noun
1.
an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2.
a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
3.
diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
I am not sure what is being debated here, so I will leave it at that. I am puzzled by anyone that considers 90% of the Olympics to not be a sport. I do appreciate that you seem to be a sport about it (yes, I consider Jon Ross to be a sport).
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jun 23, 2011 3:25 AM CDT up reply actions
golf? physicak prowess?
/slaps self
by Fake Pelini on Jun 23, 2011 12:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
if it takes no physical prowess, explain Charles Barkley’s swing.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jun 23, 2011 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
he's a strong guy
but he doesn’t play professional golf. physical prowess isn’t really an attribute of the game. most 50+ yr olds couldn’t compete with 20-30 yr olds if that were the case.
your hand-eye coordination has to be superb, and muscles used to swinging to much, but its hardly a physical competition
I know that it could be strongly argued my question is an outlier and unfair, but that is a complete and total bullshit answer. I say this as a compliment.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Jun 23, 2011 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just going to defer to the answer Seer gave.
But really Fake Pelini, cheerleading just isn’t a sport.
I think the problem is that like art
“sport” is in the eye of the beholder. Things that I consider a sport (dictionary definition be damned) you may not consider to be, and the reverse is true.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 24, 2011 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, this is funny.
Look, since you guys are really struggling here I’ll help ya out.
The easiest way to define a sport is as something that is inherently competitive. For instance, you can’t play basketball without it being competitive. One team tries to score on one hoop, while the other team does the same for the other hoop. Games like football, tennis, soccer, hockey, etc. all fit in this category.
Everything else is a competition that requires athleticism, but is not inherently competitive. Do track athletes, dancers, figure skaters, and cheerleaders all have immense physical skill? Yes, they do. However, the objects they pursue do not require competition. When you run a quarter mile, there is no requirement that anyone else run against you.
I think the problem here is tone. Cheerleaders become angry when you say that cheerleading is not a sport, because they think others are denigrating what they do by not labeling it as a sport.
Cheerleading is a very tough and demanding physical task. However, it does not require competition, ergo it is not a sport.
Your Welcome.
Not to take away from what you're saying here
But if you were to take only this definition, politics would be a sport.
Maybe the end all be all is just ESPN says its a sport.
by Fake Pelini on Jun 23, 2011 1:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The E in ESPN stands for entertainment
Poker isn’t a sport, either.
by Albino Tornado on Jun 23, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions

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