B1G 2011//From Barry to Bielema: Is Bucky Ready To Stake His Claim To the Conference’s Elite?
On Wednesdays OTE does one of two things: a 4th-and-3 feature or a wild card left to the writer’s imagination. Given that 4th-and-3 (one play to get three yards or else) shares far too much in common with a two point conversion, I decided not writing an article called "Wisconsin Alumnus Engages in Self-Flagellation" to be in the interests of my health.
Instead, I will pick up the theme we began last week with Michigan State, where Ted Glover asked whether or not the Spartans are ready to make the leap to the conference’s upper echelon. Today we’ll continue that discussion, looking at the Wisconsin program and seeing if they're ready not only to take up permanent residence at the top of the conference, but also establish itself as a football power on an annual basis. And if they’re not, what do they have to do to get there?
Before Barry notched the first of his three Rose Bowl victories, did anyone anywhere have any positive memories of Wisconsin football (with the notable exception of Kenosha native Allan Ameche’s Heisman)? After getting that first victory in Pasadena Bucky went into a slight slumber over the next four years, slumming it in the Hall of Fame Bowl and the Copper Bowl, while missing the post-season entirely in 1995. This was all of course a mere prelude to the great two-year period of 1998-1999 when Ron Dayne ascended to the top of the NCAA’s all-time rushing list, grabbed the school’s second Heisman trophy, and Wisconsin became the only Big Ten team ever to win consecutive Rose Bowls. It was at this point the Badgers seemed poised to join Michigan and Ohio State atop the conference as a perennial contender. Sportsline went so far as to pick Wisconsin as its pre-season favorite for the national title. But they didn’t make the jump. What happened?
Bret Bielema signed on as Barry’s defensive coordinator in 2004 and took the helm in 2006. His inaugural season once again left us thinking: are we primed for the big time? With the exception of one slip up against Michigan (in a game that was far more competitive than its 27-13 final would indicate), the Badgers generally laid waste to the rest of the conference and won the only three games they played decided by a touchdown or less. The consensus: Wisconsin is back to playing tough, physically and mentally. With a shutdown defense composed largely of sophomores, domination is to be expected in 2007 and 2008.
If we put the Rose Bowl to one side and evaluate Bielema’s tenure to this point, we see a young coach who’s learned from his mistakes and now realizes what it takes to be successful. I feel he paid his dues in 2009, learning how to keep a team focused and motivated on a weekly basis. He repeated the deed in 2010. If this is the real Bielema, one that demands responsibility of his players and instills toughness in them, then Wisconsin is probably ready to rise.
This week...
MONDAY | Wisconsin Cocktail Party Preview
WEDNESDAY | 4th & 3
THURSDAY | OTE Potluck
FRIDAY | Keeping the Enemy Close - Rival Blogger Interview
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That's not what the card said....
"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."
by Ted Glover on Jun 29, 2011 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Paul Chryst dont care.
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On, Wisconsin!
by John Veldhuis on Jun 29, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I think I'll pass
/dives for cover
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
by Pariahwulfen on Jun 29, 2011 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
What is this "pass" you speak of?
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On, Wisconsin!
by John Veldhuis on Jun 29, 2011 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
you sunsabitches better not take this out of context..
There’s one thing Wisconsin needs to be considered to be in the top echelon of the big ten. The national title. Yes Minnesota has them, Yes Illinois has them, but none of those came after hitler died.
Point is, if you look at Michigan, Penn St, and NU since winning their last respective titles, their stories have been similar to Wisconsin’s.
Rocky seasons, bad coaches(except PSU,) and so on. Yet here we are, the other day I read someone call them the big 4.
So if Wisky is to be taken into that top level, it really needs a national title, which, the way things are going, could happen within the next 5 years.
by Fake Pelini on Jun 29, 2011 8:29 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
ha
We won’t
Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.
by Graham Filler on Jun 29, 2011 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
There will soon be players
who have never been alive for a Nebraska national title. Congrats on becoming Notre Dame.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
by U-God on Jun 29, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
ding ding
As the first guy to not read the heading and took what I said out of context, you are our winner! You win a free flight to Ciudad Juarez and a gold star sticker.
by Fake Pelini on Jun 29, 2011 8:55 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think you understand what out of context means.
You made up your own standards of what would qualify a team to be in the upper echelon of the conference. What is the statue of limitations on being able to claim a national title making you in that tier? 10 years? 15? At some point what you pulled off when Bill Clinton was in office stops really being relevant as to what your team is today. Using your logic, in the past decade only the following teams can be considered as the elites in their conferences: Auburn, Alabama, Florida, LSU, Texas, USC, tOSU, Miami, and OU. Oregon, despite winning at least 10 games the last three seasons and playing in the National Championship Game cannot be considered an elite member of the Pac-12 because they’ve never won a championship. They’ve won 99 games since 2000. That’s five more than Nebraska. Your standards are idiotic.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
by U-God on Jun 29, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ok let's include Oregon and Illinois in the elites if it makes you feel better.
It seems that’s really the reason you’re mad, Illinois isn’t in a conversation and you feel the need to bash Nebraska because their last championship came a little over 10 yrs age in a division of football in which over 100+ schools compete and there are easily 20-30 very good schools each and every year, making the argument that “you haven’t won a title in over 10 years!” utterly stupid and irrelevant.
There’s a reason the JoePas, Tom Osbornes, Bear Bryants of the world are known and will continue to be known as legendary coaches for years to come, so pull ur head out of ur ass, realize this isn’t about Nebraska, it never was, its about what its going to take for people outside big ten country to take notice of Wisconsin as an elite instead of just another big name by nature of being a BCS school.
by Fake Pelini on Jun 29, 2011 11:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
This has nothing to do with Illinois.
I know my alma mater has a middle of the road football program. I don’t lost sleep over it.
The national title declaration has been pretty much your main argument as to what makes a team elite or not. A school can be considered elite without having won a national championship in their past.
I’m not saying Nebraska sucks or that they’re terrible. They are a good team. But you keep insisting that they’re somehow entitled to being considered one of the top programs in current football because of their storied past. It doesn’t work like that.
And in regards to
its about what its going to take for people outside big ten country to take notice of Wisconsin as an elite instead of just another big name by nature of being a BCS schoolno one outside of the Midwest has given a shit about Nebraska in a while.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
maybe this will work for you
There is quite the difference between a program and a team. By your standards(team) wisconsin is elite, because they won the big ten. By my standards(program) wisconsin is not yet an elite because they haven’t won a national title.
If they won the big ten, why the hell even ask if they’re elite in the big ten on a team standard? Why the hell does the word elite even exist? If not to the synonimous with the current champ of ____ conference in ____ sport?
If you look at the program though, they’re a great program, great tradition, I’m sure the fanbase is great as well, however, no cigar. When the entire AP/Coaches poll can claim “I’m a great team that didn’t win the national title”, then you’re not elite. Great, yeah, but not elite.
by Fake Pelini on Jun 29, 2011 12:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I wanna go
Off Tackle Empire
The quintessential Big Ten smoking room.
by Graham Filler on Jun 29, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
If you're going,
I’m in.
"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."
There are players
who have never known what Minnesota winning Paul Bunyan’s Axe is like.
The last time? October 22nd, 1994.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 29, 2011 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll be that guy
Hitler died in 1945.
Minnesota claims an AP title from 1960.
Illinois claims an unrecognized title from 1951.
Hell, even Iowa has a FWAA title from 1958.
Michigan State has titles in 1952, 1965, and 1966.
I guess that makes us all elite. /MDWM
by Jon Berg on Jun 29, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Are you sure he's dead?
I thought I saw him in a Hanes commercial:

by Chadnudj on Jun 29, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's just in hiding
You’ll never guess who his roommate is…

you're right
I didn’t have time to wikipedia a more appropriate event for a date to go with, but you get the point.
by Fake Pelini on Jun 29, 2011 12:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Whoopsie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_college_football_season
.
Murray Warmath. 1960. Golden Gophers.
by InflectionPoint on Jun 29, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
What must Bucky do to become a conference elite? Why, follow Coach Bielma's leg tattoo'd advice is all:

Believe and Achieve indeed.
With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage
by BuckeyeSki on Jun 29, 2011 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I would be totally geeked...
…to see Wisky and MSU in the first conference championship game. It would have media ravings immediately.
If Wisky wins against MSU earlier in the season, it would be considered the ‘tiebreaker’ game (MSU won last year, Wisky this year). If MSU wins against Wisky earlier in the season, it would be the ‘revenge’ game on neutral ground.
I just can’t see Nebraska winning the conference division. Not because they don’t have the talent, but because MSU, Iowa, NW, UM(?), etc will refuse to let the new guy come in and run the show.
Sorry. Nuh uh. Not gonna happen.
I'd love to see Iowa vs Wisky in the 1st B10 championship game.
They wouldn’t have played each other during the season, and the B10 CG could also be for the Heartland Trophy. Since Iowa and Wisconsin have an even record against each other it would also be for the lead in the all time series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartland_Trophy
Plus, the week before Iowa will have played (and hopefully won) at Nebraska in a high profile game the Friday after Thanksgiving.
I think you forgot something in your 2008 recap
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=283060127
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
Which I bring up
because this game will always come to mind when I am evaluating Bret Bielema as a coach.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
one of those 'learning experiences' for Bielema
He’s certainly matured as a coach since that debacle of a coaching performance
Bucky's 5th Quarter - All Badgers, all the time.
by Adam Tupitza on Jun 29, 2011 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm never sure what 'elite' means in these conversations
I also have some difficulty with the term ‘program’.
So I have two questions: What are the factors that contribute to elite-ness? What is the time frame under consideration when discussing a program?
Probably both of these concepts are irreparably vague, but it would be interesting to get different readers’ impressions of how they subjectively measure them.
"Elite" means Nebraska
The factors are whichever are needed to allow Fake Pelini to keep claiming Nebraska is elite
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Jun 29, 2011 1:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Nebraska is elite
In the same way that Miami, Florida State, and Oklahoma are elite.
They’re a sleeping giant.
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields
The difference between what MSU is doing and what Wisonsin is doing
is MSU is trying to get into the upper half, to just be mentioned as one of the better teams in the big ten alongside the Ohio States, Wisconsins, Penn States and Iowas, aka the 8 wins is a huge disappointment club, while Wisconsin seems to be trying to be the best in the conference aka the no big ten title is a disappointment club currently inhabited by OSU and no one else really.
Neither one is quite there yet, but both are at least trying.
by justsomehawkeyefan on Jun 29, 2011 12:41 PM CDT reply actions
and no, nebraska isnt part of that club pelini
you have to play a big ten season before you get to be apart of either club. For all we know you could go winless in the BIG.
by justsomehawkeyefan on Jun 29, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
haha true
But will that change if they post the same record this year as last year? (10 wins) so to provide a reference point as to where they are compared to everyone else in the b10?
by Fake Pelini on Jun 29, 2011 12:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If Nebraska can win 7 or more of these games in the big ten
then yes, but you shouldnt be crowned 2011 big ten champs until you guys actually win a few against big ten teams.
by justsomehawkeyefan on Jun 29, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
im not giving you the 10 wins thing
because your nonconference is really weak this year. when Fresno State is the hardest team you play……thats not good.
by justsomehawkeyefan on Jun 29, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
fair enough
NU is and will be middle of the pack til then. See you black friday
by Fake Pelini on Jun 29, 2011 1:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hey now....
NU has won three Big Ten titles since 1993 (more than Iowa, Michigan State, Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, or Minnesota; as many as Penn State; behind only Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ohio State). NU is decidely not middle of the pack.
(Oh, you were referring to University of Nebraksa? In that case….yes, they’re decidely mediocre.)
Wisconsin and MSU
These are two really interesting programs, based on recent trajectory and the rest of the conference. MSU under Dantonio has already made the leap from ‘no bowl more often than not’ to ‘perennial bowl game’; they may already be in the top half of the conference, though we won’t have definitive evidence one way or the other for a few years yet. Wisconsin, meanwhile, can make a real claim to having the healthiest program in the conference going forward.
Ya gotta win the bowls though
not just show up and get your gift baskets. thats whats really keeping MSU down from a national perspective. that and real quality wins. one quality win can be a “fluke”, but two or more is harder to dispute.
by justsomehawkeyefan on Jun 29, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
We'll see
Wisky lost a lot of leadership from last year’s team, guys that had been there during the 2007 and 2008 dark times. It remains to be seen if this new-found mental toughness was a product of the coach, or the players. If its the latter, then Wisconsin could slide back a ways the second they face some adversity this year.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Jun 29, 2011 1:55 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, the players that remain went through the adversity last year. Losing their first conference game – after that one, I thought “here we go again, another season of under-achieving.” Pulling out the great win at Iowa after the big win against Ohio State (avoiding the letdown after big wins seemed to be impossible for the Badgers of years past.) Fighting to come back in the Rose Bowl despite Chryst’s horrible play-calling.
Definitely lost some great leadership in Watt, Tolzien, Carimi, etc. But I think the experience of going through last season has probably produced some new leaders. Guys who know what it takes to get back to where they were.
Possibly
But I’ve found it far more common amongst young players who had almost immediate success to get complacent and come to expect just to win, only to fold up shop the second they face adversity. Right now, we just don’t know which way your younger players will break. But that’s why any talk of Bielema having surmounted this last obstacle is wildly speculative and premature.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Jun 29, 2011 3:31 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Even though we'll have a decent number of "new" starters
It’s not like all these guys were just on the team for last year. This year’s seniors and redshirt juniors were all a part of the horrible 2008 season. The juniors and redshirt sophomores all remember the back to back losses against OSU and Iowa after they finally got ranked the first time that year, and losing at Northwestern after they had climbed back up to #14 in the rankings.
Just because they had success last year doesn’t mean they forgot what it’s like to lose.
2003 Ohio State night game
Happened to be my freshman year at Madison. My time before the game was spent at a house across the street from Camp Randall, in a keg race (two teams of about 12, each working on a quarter-keg). I happened to be on the team with the 6’4", 240+ lb senior with the legendary drinking reputation. Which resulted in the both of us chugging, then immediately refilling and chugging, about 9 beers in a row. (For comparisons sake, I was 5’10, about 160 pounds).
Needless to say, easily the drunkest moment of my life. The first moment where I came out of my drunken haze/blackout was singing “Varsity” in the rain. Thankfully, that means I was fully conscious for the Lee Evans, game winning bomb. Awesome night.
And that, my friends, is Madison in a nutshell.
Robert Reynolds got all choked up upon reading that recap Packers
wait, that doesnt sound right…..
With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage
by BuckeyeSki on Jun 29, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hence the doesnt sound right
however, bad joke is bad
With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage
Eh, I've always enjoyed a good Sorgi joke....perhaps because Sorgi is a joke.
My father’s a big Ohio State fan, so I’ve reminded him of that incident plenty of times. Though these last few months have provided me with a little more material… :P
Jim Sorgi has a SB ring
Trent Dilfer approves.
"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."
I'll tell you what Jaws, THAT GUY sure can hold a clipboard!!!!
I haven’t seen sign language THAT GOOD since Marlee Matlin guest starred on SVU!!!!

With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage
Sorgi is the number one leader in passing efficiency at Wisconsin for one reason and one only.
LEE EVANS’S 2003 SEASON.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 29, 2011 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, the Michigan State game that year....
Best sporting performance I’ve seen in person (albeit, I haven’t been to all that many outside of time at Madison)….258 yards, 5 TDs, and some absolutely ridiculous catches.
In the post
I think you list every loss to Iowa in the last 20 years, get pissed off about it and call it winnable. You do realize that Iowa has put some really good teams on the field in that time, right? And when two really good teams meet, one of them is going to lose, right?
Sheesh.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
Exactly.
Except for the part where I don’t. Except for calling the 2005 Hawkeyes mediocre (which they were) and calling the 2009 game winnable (which, after being up 10-0 at home, it was) I do not even insinuate that any other losses were winnable. I’m on record as being a fan of and having great respect for Iowa. I even infer that the 2004 and 2008 Badgers weren’t even in the same zip code as Iowa (which they weren’t).
So, thank you for twisting my words and drawing the conclusion you, and only you, manged to concoct.
Author at Off Tackle Empire
and Errant Pass Downfield
@RicardoEfendi
by Ricardo Efendi on Jun 29, 2011 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed. 2009 was very winnable for Wisconsin
Until Clay went down. Game changer. Credit Iowa for coming back, but they definitely let that one slip away.
Bucky's 5th Quarter The best site for Badger news on the web!
Follow me on Twitter for the latest Badger Bits @JohnVeldhuis
On, Wisconsin!
by John Veldhuis on Jun 29, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Tough question to answer.
The homer in me wants to believe that another big year in 2011 will install the Badgers fully into the upper tier of the conference. But I just need to see a BCS bowl win first.
Fortunately, I think they’re closer than they ever have been. 2011 is a huge year for the whole program.
Bucky's 5th Quarter The best site for Badger news on the web!
Follow me on Twitter for the latest Badger Bits @JohnVeldhuis
On, Wisconsin!
The 2007 season disappointed, beginning with the idiotic decision to open the season in all red uniforms and culminating in getting burned by Eric Ainge in the Outback Bowl.
Wrong, sir. Wrong. I loved the all-reds.
Fixing that for you…
The 2007 season disappointed, beginning with below-average efforts against Washington State and The Citadel, and culminating in getting burned by Eric Ainge in the Outback Bowl.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 29, 2011 8:44 PM CDT reply actions
All Reds are always ugly in football
and im an NC State semi-fan, so i would know
by justsomehawkeyefan on Jun 29, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I know I'm coming late to this thread . . .
But this has been bugging me for weeks.
I think the entire “will Team X become elite” question is silly.
Unless you blatantly cheat like OSU – no team in the Big 10 is going to take up permanent residence at the top. Ever since the Big 2 Little 8 was broken up in the 80s (thanks Saint Hayden!), there have been regular ebbs and flows by teams like UW, Iowa, Michigan State, Penn State and even Illinois. Each time one of them has a couple good years, the old debate begins Are They Ready To Permanently Take A Spot Among the Conference Elite?
And each time the answer has been no. Wisconsin’s Rose Bowl wins didn’t do it. Ferentz’ three consecutive top 10 finishes didn’t do it. Penn State’s re-emergence didn’t do it. And neither Michigan State or Wisconsin are going to PERMANENTLY do it now, either.
Moot point, IMO and a silly thing to waste time debating.

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