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B1G 2011 // Keeping the Enemy Close: Please Let Me Hate Wisconsin

I don't know why I'm doing this. I'm sure that there are lots of reasons to hate Wisconsin. No, that's not strong enough. There are lots of reasons to hate Wisconsin. And I'm sure that I could get a cheap pop by taking shots at the fatties that live there (stuff like: Has anyone described to you what Madison smells like on a Sunday morning after a state full of 250 pound women have consumed nothing but beer, cheese, and sausage for 16 hours the day before?). Somehow, that doesn't seem right. Not this year. Not now. Not when I've been told my hatred is not important.

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No, my hatred is muted - stifled even. And so I'm taking this in a different direction. Let me explain to you why I should be able to hate Wisconsin, and how I hope that I'm able to hate them again.

Star-divide

Calling Iowa and Wisconsin mirror images of each other is a popular turn of phrase. But, it doesn't do justice to how the programs got to looking so similar. Iowa and Hayden Fry broke through in 1981 by locking down their state in recruiting and making inroads into talent-rich, but at the time less-tapped by Big Ten teams, states - specifically New Jersey, Florida and Texas. Iowa would go to 3 Rose Bowls in next ten years. After Fry retired, Iowa hired Kirk Ferentz, one of Fry's former assistants, who followed the same pattern and led Iowa to two B1G titles and two BCS Bowls.

Wisconsin didn't make the same progress that Iowa did. It wasn't like watching two twins grow up together. It was more like watching an episode of I Want a Famous Face. Wisconsin sculpted itself in Iowa's image. It hired Barry Alvarez, Hayden Fry's defensive coordinator, as coach. It started focusing its recruiting in places like Texas and Florida (and even picked up a Heisman winner out of New Jersey). When Alvarez decided to step down, Bret Bielema was named his successor. He had, of course, played football at Iowa and was an assistant there. His leg tells an interesting story. He's led Wisconsin to one B1G title and 1 BCS game. Congratulations, Wisconsin. You're a Big Ten crown and a Caucus away from becoming Iowa.

S091017_iowa_medium

But, here's the thing. Regardless of how the Badgers eventually rose from their putridity, they have done it. They have reached the point of being Iowa's equal. And that's what makes me mad. That's what I hate right now. This is a fantastic series, and it was shat upon by the B1G. Iowa and Wisconsin won't meet in 2011. They won't meet in 2012. And that's a travesty.

Do you realize how close Iowa City and Madison are? The teams don't fly. It's a 3 hour drive, with the state line serving as the halfway mark. For Iowa, there is no closer B1G foe. For Wisconsin, only Northwestern is comparable. Proximity has bred contempt. Don't believe me? Grab a pitcher at the Annex in Platteville, Wisconsin. Cross the river and have another at the Walnut Tap in Dubuque. You'll learn.

There is no series in the league that is more even than this one. In fact, after playing each other 86 times, the tally is tied at 42-42-2. If we only go back as far as 1993, which the B1G told us is the magical start of all B1G related history, the series is tied at 8-8.  The games have been great, too. Ron Dayne set the rushing record against Iowa in 1999. In 2004, Iowa and Wisconsin played with the Big Ten Title on the line. The Hawks won a beautiful game. the past two years have been absolute slug-fests. Iowa rallied to win in Madison on their run to a BCS berth in 2009. Wisconsin returned the favor in Iowa City in 2010.

You can't say any of that about Minnesota, who Iowa has bested 13 of 18 times and Wisconsin has beaten 14 of 18 times since 1993. And yet, when the divisions were configured, the league made sure that Iowa-Minnesota and Wisconsin-Minnesota were annual games. The league's priorities were misplaced.

You may have noticed, that the Hawks and Badgers were two games short in their series over the last 18 years. That's because the B1G made this same mistake before. When the league added Penn State in 1993, the league dropped the annual meeting between the schools. They protested, and the league set up the two-permanent rival system. Apparently, that lesson has been forgotten.

So now Iowa and Wisconsin take two years off. They'll play in 2013-14, and then they'll take four years off. And the pattern will continue. The rivalry will die, remembered only for what it was in two year spurts. My hatred irrelevant.

From this seat, there appears only one shot at saving this rivalry. If the B1G does go to a nine game league schedule, this game should be added as a second permanent cross-division opponent (with PSU-MSU, OSU-NW, Purd-MN, Indiana-Nebraska, Illinois-Mich - giving each team one opponent from the top and bottom three of the other division). Do that, B1G, and you'll right this wrong. And then I can focus this hate upon Wisconsin. Until then, it's aimed at your Chicago headquarters.

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Well said. The Iowa game was my favorite game of the year, nearly every year.

I think Wisconsin has never tried to hide the fact that Iowa laid the blueprint for how to succeed in the Big 10 if you’re not one of the “Big 3.” The only difference in the programs right now seems to be AIRBHG afflicts Iowa, while he bestows a wealth of riches upon the Badger backfield of late.

As for your little pot shot about the fatties:
2009 Obesity rates: Iowa: 27.9% Wisconsin: 28.7% CURSES! FOILED AGAIN!!

Also don’t let the SEC crowd ever call the Midwest fat again

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 1, 2011 7:07 AM CDT reply actions  

"don't let the SEC call the midwest fat"

Fried chicken!

Joe Thomas is what we call a lineman in the Big Ten… lean, quick, and strong as an ox.

Andre Smith is what they call a lineman in the SEC… a fatty fat fatso jelly donut.

Oh, and Nick Fairley is fat too.

We need to petition to get Chik Fil A to stay open on Sundays so the SEC players can get even fatter.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Chik Fil A

They just opened a Chik Fil A in Chicago (on Chicago Avenue, not far from the Water Tower)….it’s a glorious time to be alive.

by Chadnudj on Jul 1, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was in town when it opened

There was a line wrapped around the block. I’ve eaten there several times. It’s delicious, but I wouldn’t wait an hour for it.

by Jon Berg on Jul 1, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Would you wait an hour

is it was served by topless Playboy bunnies?

See, that’s what we call a paradigm shift.

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 1, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who wouldn't?

“I’ll have a chicken breast, hold the chicken.”

by Skerz90 on Jul 1, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not that I didn’t find the idea of a toplessness at Chik-Fil-A amusing, just a little misplaced, considering why they aren’t open on Sunday’s. Zealots.

by txhawkeye on Jul 1, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Chuck Norris...

… can get Chik Fil A on Sundays.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

I refuse to support the SEC

by eating at Chik Fil A… I’ll stick to Wendy’s, Buffalo Wild Wings, White Castle, etc…. especially BWW, whose early sponsorship commitments were crucial to forming BTN.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

ROTEL!!!!

Must…dip…with…Ro-Tel

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 1, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

BIG FLAVORS!

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

-- I eat a lot of stuff -- WaterlooChazz

by Blackheartnopants on Jul 1, 2011 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fine

You can enjoy all the BWW and diarrhea from it that you can handle.

MOAR SPICY CHICKEN DELUXE FOR ME!

by Jon Berg on Jul 1, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

There are reasons not to eat at Chik-Fil-A if you don't want to support certain causes.

I’m not sure the SEC is one of those, though…

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jul 1, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is a great point
Iowa laid the blueprint for how to succeed in the Big 10 if you’re not one of the "Big 3."

Frankly, it’s probably worth a post at some point. Not only did Wisconsin follow Iowa’s blueprint, but Gary Barnett at Northwestern never hid the fact that he sought to replicate Iowa’s level of success (i.e. generally competitive/winning, but competing for a B1G title every 3-4 years)….a lesson Fitz probably learned a bit too well, with his maniacal focus on beating Iowa each and every year.

by Chadnudj on Jul 1, 2011 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fitz has sex with dead bodies?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, you said necroMANCY.

Never mind.

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 1, 2011 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

He does eat asses though

lots of asses. Like constantly mowing down on an ass.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields

by rockyh on Jul 1, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

HFMR is a genius

"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable

by ClaybornSmash on Jul 1, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

NecROMANCY is done in Wisconsin, with deer corpses.

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

-- I eat a lot of stuff -- WaterlooChazz

by Blackheartnopants on Jul 1, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh sweet baby Jesus.

I remember that freak… Like 5 years ago? They ruled that since it was a carcass and not an animal, it wasn’t against some “morality” code, right?

by MNWildcat on Jul 2, 2011 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

New to the site

Hi all!
I’m new to OTE! Just wanted to say keep up the good work and continue with the witty and satirical comments that embody Big Ten sportsmanship. This stuff cracks me up. It’s evident the B1G fanbase is much more educated and witty than the mouth-breathers in Dixie Land.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 7:39 AM CDT reply actions  

Meth?

Explain to me, then, the numbers in Indiana and Michigan on this map:

Rooting for Notre Dame and Michigan isn’t normal… but on meth it is.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields

by rockyh on Jul 1, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Meth. Not even once.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 1, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

You think that's the standard?

Mizzou would like to have a word with you.

by MNWildcat on Jul 2, 2011 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

How in the hell do CT, RI, DE, and Jersey not have any meth incidents? And Mass with 1?

Somebody’s paying off somebody out east.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Humble Buckeye?

is that even possible. Oh wait – THE Humble Buckeye, is that an oxymoron or something?

"I don't believe in quotes" - Karl Klug

by Nature Boy on Jul 1, 2011 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Slightly an oxymoron, but slightly true...

THE Humble Buckeye is an admission that I might be the only one.

I do try to be more rational and reasonable than the vast majority of fans.

I still hate M*chigan though.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you meant to say va...

OHHH

iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields

by rockyh on Jul 1, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Someone is still mad

that I called Drew Tate a pussy apparently

With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage

by BuckeyeSki on Jul 1, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or just generally annoyed by OSU trolls.

P.S. Remember when Jim Tressel resigned in disgrace on Memorial Day?

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Troll huh?

45-14-3 btw…..or maybe 44-14-13 because our players magical tattoos gave them superpowers that made it impossible to stop a 4th a 10 run. (yeah yeah ineligble players save your keystrokes, the all time record speaks volumes to Iowa’s mediocrity anyways)

With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage

by BuckeyeSki on Jul 1, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Now that's funny

well played. A rec for you

With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage

by BuckeyeSki on Jul 1, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good thing I'm the only one in my office today

Because when I spit Diet Coke onto my computer from laughing no one saw it.

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 1, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yea. Troll. Turn about is fair play. Cool pictures btw.

Too bad Hayden never punched an opposing player, oh well. True OSU has won more, I respect that, alot.
Where there’s a cheat there is probably more cheating. See you August 12th.

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hayden never punched a player...

In public. He was from Texas you know. Texans are batshit crazy.

by mikjones24 on Jul 1, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

August 12th indeed

and when we get that slap on the wrist, I’ll be here laughing all the way to ANOTHER B1G Championship

With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage

by BuckeyeSki on Jul 1, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can I take your word for this?

Because I’m tempted to save this message and wait for the Big Ten Championship game. Because I don’t think OSU will be in it. Or even be eligible to be in it. That would be twice as funny.

Betcha can't handle this 4-3 cover 2, mofos!

by Gookin on Jul 1, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah but

you don’t hate OSU.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

No,

I don’t hate Ohio State, but that’s probably because Wisconsin somehow manages to make Ohio State fight tooth and nail for victories. Wisconsin is the only team that Jim Tressel absolutely had difficulties with in the conference.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 1, 2011 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe both get banned from postseason play

AND have a bad enough season where they would make it to the title game anyway. That’d be great.

by Fake Pelini on Jul 1, 2011 11:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

So let me get this straight

If the NCAA does it’s inept job, as usual, you’ll be laughing because you were able to cheat?

by Grixxly on Jul 2, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

We’ll be laughing because we cheated…and got away with it when we were expecting the hammer to fall.

BIG difference. :)

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 3, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jealous Iowa boys

Your all time mediocrity makes you hate OSU. Just admit you boys really, really want to be better than your record indicates. Saying others cheat makes you feel better about your mediocrity. You all will jump on anyone who dares say that iowa isn’t the greatest ever. (evidence of it being the ridiculous debate that your ‘09 team vs MSU ’10 team) You are the Mandlebaums’.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I may be in the minority . . .

But I won’t support a program that cheats to win.

I actually feel sorry for Buckeye fans. Everything the program has accomplished under Tressel was a fraud and a joke.

by Torbee on Jul 1, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pat on head

Your unwarranted opinion matters zero. Thanks for your self-important rant. You were not going to like them anyways. Plus, you proved my point about iowa fans and jealousy. OSU has been beating your team for many years.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well I say your unwarranted opinion means nothing!

narneee narneee nuuuu nuuuu

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Insane Clown Posse

anyone of thier songs

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I actually

have a friend who did their photo shoot for High Times. He also did their last album cover.

PS- I won’t tell Shifty you are stepping out on him with ICP.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

PPS: cool story.

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

You forgot

After patting on the head you were supposed to say “awww isn’t he cute?” or some ass holish comment like that as well.

by Fake Pelini on Jul 1, 2011 11:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don't hate OSU.

Which invalidates the rest of this post.

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sure you don't

Yea. Troll. Turn about is fair play. Cool pictures btw. Too bad Hayden never punched an opposing player, oh well. True OSU has won more, I respect that, alot.
Where there’s a cheat there is probably more cheating. See you August 12th.

“GO HAWKS!” – only cure for Hawkeye Envy
by BentNotBroken

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I really don't hate OSU.

I really don’t hate OSU. I really don’t hate OSU.

Copy and paste is fun!!

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

You just

Call all their fans trolls, the team cheaters, the coach a fraud. I could see you where you love them.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

False. I respect Ted Glover.

another Biggy point invalidated!

Also 2pac is better than B.I.G.

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course

Tupac had a much larger catalog. Tupac was great in life, not made great by death.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hate OSU:

but not really because they beat Iowa often and by many points. I mean, that is irritating, but not enough to make me hate an entire team/school/fanbase.

I hate OSU because they’ve been caught cheating, and I think the cheating goes back further. I hate OSU because so many of their fans are annoying delusional assholes. I hate OSU because they have that fruity 4-person dance to spell out their state. I hate OSU because their coaches, more often than not, seem to be over-confident buttheads with a disregard for standards of behavior. I hate OSU because Stanley Jackson kicked that guy just because he got tackled.

Iowa also has a bad record against Michigan (12-40-4), but their fans don’t usually come to message boards just to be jerks. Their football program doesn’t have a litany of NCAA rules offenses (too much practice time under Rich-Rod, and I can’t think of other football violations). Their coaches don’t punch opponents. And Michigan doesn’t need a fruity, 4-person circle-jerk to remember where they are from.

Go Hawks! fOSU!

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

So bitter

The OSU fans don’t agree with you because you are wrong. Delusional is believing that your team (iowa) is the greatest program ever. You WANT to believe that OSU was always “cheating” because you so badly don’t want to believe that your team wasn’t/isn’t good enough. I don’t think there is a Buckeye fan alive that cares if some self-important, middle of the pack lovin, iowa fan likes them or not.

btw- funny how you dismiss tsun’s problems as minor, but ASSume the worst of TOSU. Typical delusional fan you are. I don’t think tattoos helped OSU curb stomp your little team either….

by biggy84 on Jul 2, 2011 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why do you think every Iowa fan thinks Iowa is better than OSU?

On the field, it isn’t even close to true. I haven’t heard/read people on here or on BHGP claiming that Iowa is better. Have Iowa fans claimed the Iowa program is cleaner than OSU? Yes, and I think most fans not from Iowa or OSU would probably agree.

No Iowa fan that I’ve heard from (on the Internet, in person, or through telepathy) has ever said Iowa is the greatest program ever. But it is the favorite of Iowa fans, just like OSU is your favorite.

Meanwhile, your favorite team is in the middle of a scandal that JUST GOT YOUR COACH FIRED AND HAS YOUR TEAM UNDER NCAA INVESTIGATION, and you still can’t admit that something “might” be wrong there.

This is exactly why so many of us (and particularly many Iowa fans on here) are arguing with you. Because you won’t admit to the current reality about OSU, and then you just make fun of anyone else by calling them mediocre, or middle-of-the-pack, or whatever.

I don’t really expect you or other OSU fans to care about what I think. But then don’t reply to every comment by an Iowa fan with the same shit every time.

Why am I “dismissing” Michigan’s violations? They got probation and limited practice time. Why? Because there wasn’t money involved, and because they didn’t cover-up their shitstorm. I can’t say the same for “that school down south.”

And you think I’m delusional?

I await your response, which I’m sure will include “OSU hasn’t been found guilty of violations yet” and “you Iowa fans can now go back to rooting for your middle-of-the-pack program.”

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

And ineligible players most certainly did

“help stomp out” my team. And the fact that the Big Ten and the NCAA let it happen pisses me off.

But, playing ineligible/dirty players is EXACTLY what I expect from OSU.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just for argument sake

Let’s just say Tressel turned in the players. The standard penalty would have been 4 games. The iowa game was after the 4th game. So, where is the excuse? Oh thats right, you still claim media accusations as fact. You fail to read the notice of infractions that OSU is cited for. There are no new infractions that the ncaa has come forth with. The deadline for any new infractions leveled or not is July 5th. At this time the infractions are very, very clear and do NOT include the accusations of the media. You wanting to believe i am delusional because i refuse to create infractions that are NOT there. You desperately want to believe anything OSU is accused and no logic or facts will stand in your way.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I choose not to believe what a program says,

that has repeatedly lied, and has fired their coach, and has the main player involved in this scandal leaving school so he doesn’t have to talk to the NCAA.

If the NCAA gives penalties that are as light as you hope, then good for you. OSU has had minor violations repeatedly in the past, and I believe there is a pattern here that is bad.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I believe

that regardless of what happens you will still believe that OSU is dirty. The secondary violations that you speak of were self-reported. Coach Tressel was NOT fired. Where did TOSU lie? Tressel was not forthcoming about what he knew, but the university self-reported the info months before Yahoo reported it. Face it, if your team beat TOSU often, you wouldn’t care to hate them.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am biased against OSU.

I guess Tressel technically “resigned”, but if you don’t think there was pressure to do so, I don’t think that’s realistic.

Is it really self-reporting violations if the media is reporting on it first?

Do secondary violations usually lead to a very important player leaving school, and a coach resigning?

As I said earlier, OSU’s frequent success on the field against Iowa is irritating to me, but not really inspiring hatred. I absolutely hate violations (particularly major violations) of NCAA rules, and that is playing into my current hatred (actually, probably more extreme dislike) of OSU’s football program.

I don’t get too worked up at their basketball team, even though they’ve been beating Iowa a lot too. The Jim O’Brien stuff was bad, but time has eroded that somewhat.

If the NCAA does not punish OSU, I’ll be disappointed. But when it seems like nobody in the leadership at that school acts with honor in this situation, that takes it past disappointment.

I think I’d feel pretty similarly about all of this if Iowa had won 9 of the last 10 OSU games. And I’m being honest when I say that.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Please actually read the NOI

The media did NOT report the violations first. OSU reported to the NCAA in January the cover up of Jim Tressel. Yahoo reported it in March. Just because the media wasn’t aware of the infraction until March, it doesn’t mean the ncaa didn’t know. OSU is, and has been, working with the ncaa and not the media. The media is NOT the governing body that OSU is working with. The media is for people like you that want to believe sensationalized stories to further your hatred.

Whether you want to believe it or not, OSU has been extremely cooperative with the ncaa, and that’s the reason you see the hearing happening so soon. OSU has not stalled or hindered the process at all.

If iowa had beaten OSU regularly, you wouldn’t care what was going on here. The fact that your team can’t beat OSU has everything to do with it.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Believe me, Iowa's performance against OSU

is not what drives my opinion.

I actually used to respect guys like Eddie George, Robert Smith, Spielman, and I used to marvel at the skill and athleticism of your WRs.

But, this decade, with the Clarett situation, the Troy Smith situation, and now the Tat 5 situation, has removed my respect and inspired my hate (or maybe extreme dislike, but whatever).

I used to ignore SEC and mainstream media criticism of the Big Ten, by believing that our football programs were mostly clean. OSU, while holding the conference championships and representing the conference, has ruined that for me. And has brought even more dishonor on those “achievements” by selling rings and possibly trophies.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Trust me

The B1G is much cleaner than the sec. The deal with Smith,Clarett and the tat6 were all punished. The huge problem was Tressel and the cover up. Tressel falling was much more damaging than an sec coach, because we expect that from the sec. Tress made a mistake and lost his career because of it. If anything, it proved he was human and couldn’t walk on water.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good points.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Read the notice of infractions.

Educate yourself of what you claim. While you are at it, educate yourself on tsun’s violations. Your complete ignorance of what you speak makes it painfully obvious that you simply want to spew venom that is NOT based on fact.

As for the violations,, the 5 players involved in the selling memorabilia have ALREADY been punished for their “crimes.” You probably haven’t heard, but those players are suspended for the first 5 games of this season.

As for you being delusional… ignorant, close minded, biased are other things i believe about you.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I put up a link about Michigan's infractions,

and OSU players haven’t paid for their violations yet, as they got to play in their bowl game, and they haven’t missed any games yet.

I cite evidence, and you call me ignorant, biased, delusional, and closed-minded.

I am biased against OSU, but I’m not letting it affect my perception of present reality. I think you are letting your bias for OSU affect your perceptions.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Read the NOI

The players are NOT listed in them. Jim Tressel is. The university was NOT cited either. If you simply read the letter than you will know these things.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is the letter only based on the things that OSU reported?

I just read a NY Times article about OSU’s release of the NOI.

Is it possible that the NCAA could do more investigation between now and August?

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 1:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Possible?

It is absolutely possible. The COULD levy more allegations. Before you get all excited, the ncaa has already conducted their investigations and any new infractions must be made by July 5th. If you are hoping that the ncaa hangs out here and and OSU is under constant surveillance, you would be wrong. The ncaa isn’t on a witch hunt like the media and other fanbases.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

tsun

was hit with 3 major violations in addition to the secondary ones.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

link?

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, so they're being called "major",

but it does not result in lost scholarships or post-season ineligibility.

I guess I usually equate “major” with those type of penalties, but I guess maybe that’s not the case.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's listed in the LSDBi

linky
/curses java

Violation Sumary: Exceeding coaching staff limitations, playing and practice season violations, unethical conduct and failure to monitor

Penalty Summary: Penalties imposed by the committee: public reprimand and censure, three years probations, institution will decrease the permitted countable athletically related activity time by 130 hours beginning June 1, 2010 and ending at the conclusion of the 2011-12 academic year, head coach is required to attend 2011 NCAA Regional Rules Seminar.

In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.

by Pariahwulfen on Jul 3, 2011 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

2002

You were lucky because of schedule then you blew it…

by Grixxly on Jul 2, 2011 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever makes you feel better

OSU won the national championship, and iowa got dismantled by USC. I can see your reasoning. (not really)

by biggy84 on Jul 2, 2011 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think many Iowa fans do NOT think 02 Iowa was better than

02 OSU, but I’d have loved to see that game.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see your rationale

One team(OSU) beat a team that had a 20+ game winning streak that was loaded with NFL stars, and the other got pasted by USC.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just said I'd have liked to see that game.

I don’t know who would have won. I’m not saying Iowa would have won.

Miami was a talented team, and McGahee’s injury sure did not help them. I had seen some of those same players in the 2000 Sugar Bowl in person, and yes the Miami teams of that era were usually loaded with future NFLers. I’d say OSU’s teams had plenty of good talent, as well. Credit to OSU for holding Miami to 24 points.

I think some of it (a 2002 Iowa v OSU match-up) would be influenced by the site and weather for the game. I think Iowa would have needed a very good offensive performance to beat OSU, which means they probably would have needed good weather and a neutral or home site.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I enjoy how you make it sound like USC was some garbage team.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Jul 3, 2011 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not garbage

 A great team, but not as great as their later teams

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

They weren't far from it.

They had the Heisman winner (Carson Palmer), they had Polamalu, they had two decent RBs (Justin Fargas and Sultan McCullough). They had Mike Williams and Keary Colbert at WR. They still had Norm Chow as OC.

They scored 40 or more points in a game 6 times, and were on a roll toward the end of that year. They beat 6 ranked teams that year before the bowl game.

They only lost to an 11-win Kansas St by 7 points, and a 10-win Wash St by 3 points (both games on the road).

They ended the year at #4.

I don’t like to give USC credit, but they were very talented and they had a lot of momentum going into late 2002 and early 2003.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

They were jacked

No doubt about it. That team in 08 that crushed OSU was downright scary. They outclassed OSU in every way.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

A healthy Wells might, no, would have helped the Buckeyes

As in, they don’t lose by four touchdowns and change. He was a beast in 2008, and would have been an interesting challenge for those $C LBs.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 4, 2011 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would've been a GREAT game

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 3, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Troll

Is defined by iowa fans as anyone who disagrees with them. If you defend against their delusions, you are a troll. If you point out their lifelong mediocrity…… you get the picture.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice re-troll post.

OSU dominates Iowa. Why do Iowa fans make you so insecure?

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Insecure?

Funny. I don’t envy mediocrity.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I aspire

for my team to lose 12 out of 13 to another team.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Compromise

When i say “go Hawks” i will really mean the Atlanta Hawks.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

so very close

In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.

by Pariahwulfen on Jul 2, 2011 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Your statement is funny

for how painfully untrue it is. I don’t believe for a second that your envious of Iowa; then again, no one is accusing you of that, you are just tossing it up as a smokescreen to cover up your raging insecurity about what’s about to happen to OSU after the NCAA brings down the hammer. After a decade of dominance – truly impressive what OSU did during the 2000s – you’re staring up at an NCAA banhammer that will set the program back 5-10 years. And what’s more, deep down you know it to be true. And you’re scared, absolutely terrified of what that means. So, in a juvenile attempt to fool people – including, most importantly, yourself – you come on here, thread jack every discussion and accuse everyone of being a hater and jealous of OSU; but behind all your bluster is nothing but a frightened child who knows that very soon, the pain is coming.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Jul 3, 2011 7:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Whatever

Nice of you to jump in on an exchange 2 days later that had nothing to do with you troll.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's very simple

I don’t enjoy defending OSU on a daily basis. I would much rather actually talk about B1G sports. There has been a never ending stream of insults thrown at OSU and i’m simply defending what i believe. I can’t turn on a tv without hearing about what dogshit OSU is. They are my team and i will defend them. We can agree to disagree on the punishments etc.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can understand that.

With Iowa, the media is/are usually either ignoring us or reaming us for the problems we sometimes have (player legal issues, the Rhabdo “scandal”, etc.)

I know I get sick of it, and I didn’t have ESPN camped out at my favorite school for 6 weeks like OSU did.

At the same time, I feel like OSU’s problems right now are mostly of their own making, so I can’t completely feel sympathetic.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

We have had

Secpn, yahoo, Si, here multiple times. A radio station here went on the record and named names with many former players that secpn was here last week and the reporter is begging for info. She was quoted as saying that secpn believes there is more to the Talbott deal and she HAS to find something for them. She said that she has a deadline and needed it quick. She has found nothing and has called players from 1992 trying to find anything. They have all been here and they are turning over any and all stones.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then you have nothing to worry about.

So shut the fuck up.

Hawks for the win and falafels for the vagina

by DoYouLoveHawksorHate'Merica? on Jul 4, 2011 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

At this point,

I kind of hope they don’t go witch-hunting too far back. If they want to get Talbott in big trouble, there is probably enough dirt just on his dealing with a few current Buckeyes (well, plus Pryor).

What would really bother me would be if guys were getting cars left and right, but I know you’ve said that that isn’t as big an issue as it seemed at first.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 4, 2011 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

If there is anything, they will find it.

by biggy84 on Jul 4, 2011 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

easy, tiger

i know how easy it is to think you’re the only rational buckeye fan on the planet if you’ve spent time in central ohio or on the espn message boards, but you’re in a safe haven now. there are more of us than you realize.

Show them Ohio's here.

by slidingscrapes on Jul 2, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

EPSPN message boards

where rational thought goes to die.

In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.

by Pariahwulfen on Jul 2, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, welcome!

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 1, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

If only

this could’ve been the only response, and I didn’t read the usual BNB/biggy derp-fest that ensued…

“You hate Iowa! You’re jealous!”
“No, we’re better than you!”
“That proves you’re jealous!”
“I’m not jealous of someone worse than me!”

Fuck. Just…fuck.

by MNWildcat on Jul 2, 2011 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

If only... your above requested was granted.

Your life would be sooooo much easier! Allow me to apologize on behalf of biggie83 and myself.

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 2, 2011 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

No apology BNB

I rather enjoy the the daggers you toss at me. Imagine that, a sports blog that has rival fans busting each others chops…. oh the horror.

by biggy84 on Jul 2, 2011 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

You have a point?

Was anything directed at you? You acting like the old lady peeking out the window?

by biggy84 on Jul 2, 2011 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

"I wish I could hate you, but the B1G won't let me."

This was the least hate-y hate out of all the hates. But I suppose it’s better than feigning indifference.

by Skerz90 on Jul 1, 2011 7:50 AM CDT reply actions  

I know!

C`mon Bama! Let’s see some hate! Stick `em with some cobra venom, that at least knocks them out for a bit!

by SpartyFever on Jul 1, 2011 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Platteville

My sister went to UW-Platteville and I recall going down there to visit her in the fall of 2002. It was a disappointing football season for the Badgers partly redeemed at the end by victories over Minnesota for the Axe and then Colorado in the Alamo Bowl, but the strangest memory I have of that season was watching the UW-Iowa game in a bar in Platteville with my sister and her then-boyfriend, a Platteville townie. I had previously been on the fence about this guy and he did himself no favors by announcing his allegiance to the Hawkeyes. However I was in the minority that day as this bar in downtown Platteville was populated with thirty other Iowa fans, with only the bartender, my sister and me supporting the home state team. To make matters worse the final score was something like 20-3 in favor of Iowa. It was not a fun experience and I was happy to get out of town after that weekend. Now I work with a couple engineers that went to UWP and they’ve all told me that my experience was an aberration, but I still consider Platteville to be a treasonous little corner of the state.

by wallrock on Jul 1, 2011 8:08 AM CDT reply actions  

I think Dubuque is slightly like that for Wisconsin fans in Iowa.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

See SNCBucky's comments below as evidence.

They move to a state where there is a football rival, and then wonder why they have to take shit. If I moved to Wisconsin, I’d have the Hawkeye gear on, but I’d also expect to hear smack-talk about 6 times a day. Drunk, cheesy smack-talk.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's easy to blame the B10 but

The ADs decided which teams were in each division and what the locked rivalries were. My guess is the ADs felt WI-IA and WI-MN were equally significant rivalries for WI and IA-WI and IA-MN likewise for IA, but MN needed to keep both series more than IA did. Blame Minnesota for having about 17 rivalries and getting to keep them all out of pity for their lack of FB success lately. Iowa still has Minnesota and ISU, and gained Nebraska and MHR Purdue so I don’t feel much sympathy.

by br27 on Jul 1, 2011 8:08 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I think I'm not alone in saying this

and I’m sure it’s bringing up the SOS, but OMHR was subtraction by addition in Iowa’s case. We have zero history with OMHR and the BTN’s only comment for making them our cross-division rivalry was, “well, they both have won B10 championships in the last decade.” We lose the closest rivalry that we have, but we also gain a potential good one with Nebraska.

Obviously, we can’t have everything that we want, and I realize that everybody has to give up something to make this work. Maybe they will get this right, like BH said and make Wisc, Iowa’s other permanent cross-division rival.

We're gonna go America all over their asses!

by ninerhawk on Jul 1, 2011 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

The MHR Purdue part was a joke, but the lack of sympathy wasn’t. ISU, MN and NE makes for plenty of rivals. As for no history, Purdue is Iowa’s third most common opponent and it’s not even close (MN – 103, WI – 85, PU -81, IN – 72). I’m not saying there is any heat in the series, but there is some history. I think I speak for most if not all B10 fans when I say I hope the IA-WI game does come back. Nobody wanted to lose that rivalry, but something had to give.

You call IA-WI the closest rivalry, which is true in terms of W/L record, but to quote today’s Daily Iowan (http://www.dailyiowan.com/2011/07/01/Sports/23961.html):

“There was something about the rivalry, though, that didn’t seem very much like a rivalry. At the very least, it never seemed as heated as the games against Iowa State or Minnesota, even though those teams have posed mostly zero challenge to the Hawkeyes over the past few years.”

Trading WI for NE is an improvement.

by br27 on Jul 1, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

You got me with the history of Iowa/Purdue series

I didn’t bother looking up how many times they played, I just used the “no history” argument as a way of saying I have no real interest in that game/series.

Also, I disagree with the Daily Iowan’s (and some other Iowa fan’s) opinions on the Wisc. rivalry. I don’t like them, and Torbee (down the page a little) does a good job of explaining his (my feelings) towards them.

I’m not so sure it is an improvement to take Wisc off of Iowa’s schedule. It doesn’t hurt, but I’m not sure it makes it better.

I think we are both on the same page that Iowa couldn’t get everything it wanted, and the Wisc game (for now) was what had to go away to make the whole thing work. I’m interested to see how they work the 9-game schedule….stay tuned.

We're gonna go America all over their asses!

by ninerhawk on Jul 1, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

WI-IA rivalry is definitely more of a respectful, friendly rivalry

It’s very much in the spirit of this article, which is kind of a love letter for the rivalry. There isn’t the pure hatred like ISU-IA or IA-MN, it’s more like frenemies.

by Captain n Diet Coker on Jul 1, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have a ton of respect for ISU

I mean….check out that scoreboard!

Skol!

by DM_Purp on Jul 1, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Honest question

Would you trade Nebraska for Wisconsin? I said it was an improvement because I was guessing the answer was no. Otherwise, of course it isn’t. IA not playing IL more often is also a problem, but they seem farther down the rivalry list.

by br27 on Jul 1, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is a good question.

At this point, Iowa has a significant history with Wisconsin, but the series with Nebraska has the potential to be even better than the Wisconsin series.

If I had to choose one or the other, right now, I would pick Nebraska, but that is probably only because they are the shiny new toy to play with. My answer might change in 5-10 years.

We're gonna go America all over their asses!

by ninerhawk on Jul 2, 2011 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

The IA-IL series is just weird.

The Cedar Rapids Gazette had an interesting article earlier this month that explored the series, and basically there was so much animosity from one game that both schools decided to drop the series for a short span. That span became longer and longer and when they finally played again the heat and interested disappeared. It’s very strange, especially since there is a large number of Illinois undergrads at Iowa.

We're gonna go America all over their asses!

by ninerhawk on Jul 2, 2011 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice work.

rec-d

Personally, I always liked the original title of this blog (The Rivalry, Esq.) I think I liked it because of the pic of Sherman and Grant.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

No history?

How about Purdue winning 20 consecutive games against Iowa?

Oh, wait. That was pre-1993, so it never happened.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 2, 2011 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure you read what you responded to,

I said that I used the “no history” argument as a way of saying that I have no real interest, outside of the occasional mocking, in the Iowa/Purdue series. It was the wrong choice of words, but my feelings remain the same.

Yes, Purdue beat Iowa 20 times in a row. It happened, there is nothing that can change that, but there was not a whole lot going right those days in Hawkeye football.

The 1993 comment is ridiculous, as it had nothing to do with my conversation with br27. What, exactly, was the point of a remark like that?

We're gonna go America all over their asses!

by ninerhawk on Jul 2, 2011 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, Wisconsin had a 16-game winless streak against Iowa from 1975 to 1992,

with only one tie in that time.

Oh wait, that was before 1993, so it never happened.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Pre-Alvarez Wisconsin was AWFUL.

Go ahead, take credit for beating teams that averaged 3 Big Ten wins or less a season, and were winless in conference play more than once. You will not get any argument from me.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 3, 2011 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why cite W/L streaks from decades ago in a snarky manner if you are going to avoid ownership of your own team’s performance? Seems rather pointless, like you’re just out to piss people off.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't mention the win/loss streak.

What I mentioned was Purdue’s rather astonishing 20 straight wins over Iowa. YOU then came in and mentioned Iowa’s streak over Wisconsin.

Iowa wasn’t exactly awesome over the course of their losing streak to Purdue. Again, that’s Pre-Fry era. Hayden Fry was able to break that streak to Purdue by his third season.

Wisconsin was also terrible, if not worse, over the course of their streak to Iowa. Dave McClain, for all the talent that he brought to Madison, couldn’t beat Fry straight up if his life depended on it. Don Morton’s teams could have rivaled 2003-2006 Illinois in terms of sheer futility, and if you include Alvarez’s first year, Wisconsin won 3 Big Ten games from 1987 to 1990. Three. Games. Total.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 3, 2011 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Again

What was your point in bringing up Purdue’s 20 game streak over Iowa? Seriously, what point did you have other than to needlessly troll? It was previously explained what was meant by “no history” between the schools; that, though inartful, all that was meant is that there was no passion between the two teams. Then you use the “it was before Coach X, therefore it doesn’t count” when someone points out Wisconsin’s own shortcomings. But the same applies to Iowa and Fry. So, I ask again, what was your point? Or is this just another of your tendency to wade in and lob grenades in an attempt to get people to argue needlessly? Cmon OBrien, you’re better than that, leave childish antics like that to biggy and BuckeyeSki

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Jul 3, 2011 7:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

This

I can only take OB’s comment as inflammatory. I was going to mention that 18 year win-less streak, but I decided against it, as I didn’t want to look like a prick. However, coming from somebody else, it does not look nearly as bad.

I really don’t see much of a difference between Iowa’s futility against Purdue and Wisconsin’s futility against Iowa (through much of the same span). Both teams were terrible, end of story.

We're gonna go America all over their asses!

by ninerhawk on Jul 3, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Technically...

…we lost our “rivalry” with PSU. But no one in MN or PSU cares.

by GoAUpher on Jul 1, 2011 11:14 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

If you ask

I’m sure PSU would be happy to let you have the bell.

by br27 on Jul 1, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Blaming Minnesota is always an appropriate response.

But, it is important to look at things as a whole:

Iowa has ISU as a “rival”, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the Big Ten, so it shouldn’t be considered here. The new Big Ten doesn’t affect rivalries like Michigan-Notre Dame, PSU-Alabama, or Indiana-Wabash or whatever crap team they play every other year.

Iowa did get a nice new rivalry with Nebraska. It probably won’t help Iowa’s recruiting too much, as I imagine Iowa will still get about the same amount of kids from Omaha as we do now.

Iowa lost the yearly guarantee of playing Wisconsin, a neighboring state, and that series is very competitive. This hurts Iowa’s recruiting at least slightly, as we occasionally take a kid every year or every other year from WI.

Iowa lost the yearly guarantee of playing PSU, which is a budding rivalry and is often an exciting and competitive matchup. This hurts Iowa’s recruiting a little more, because we were starting to get a few kids from PA.

Iowa gets a guaranteed yearly rivalry against Purdue. Nobody cares. It won’t help recruiting much, as Purdue is at best the second-best school for football in their own slightly-weak-in-talent state. It’s like Minnesota stealing recruits from Iowa State.

Iowa keeps a guaranteed yearly rivalry with Minnesota. Nobody outside these two states cares. It doesn’t help recruiting much, as Iowa will probably still get their same amount of Minnesota kids.

Iowa gets a budding rivalry with MSU. But, this doesn’t really excite Iowa fans too much (unless MSU keeps suiting up the convicts). I’m not sure how much this helps recruiting, because I’m not sure how much the average kid in Michigan wants to play football for MSU, or notices when an outside team beats MSU.

Basically, this schedule might make it a bit easier for Iowa to win more games, but they are less-high-profile games within the region (Iowa v MSU compared to Iowa v Wisky), and maybe nationwide (Iowa v Nebby compared to Iowa v PSU). Also, until Michigan improves, we are still in the Leaders, which will probably be perceived initially as the weaker part of the Big Ten.

This scenario probably hurts Iowa some. It takes away one very solid rivalry (Wisky) and a budding rivalry (PSU) and replaces it with basically Nebraska, until a possible 9-game Big Ten schedule occurs.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I laugh to myself every time someone confuses Legends and Leaders

(Iowa and Michigan are in the Legends division along with the other ‘M’ and ‘N’ schools, not Leaders) because it’s just more and more evidence piling up about how stupid the division names are.

by Captain n Diet Coker on Jul 3, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mutual Respect

Hard to hate them but watching Schoefield tear through Bulaga the entire first half in 2009 only made the 2nd half ass kicking that much better. I hate them because it feels as if they do what we do only better most of the time. Now, they are perched atop the preseason lists. Its a familiar feeling but since you are so much like us I will tell you that things are not always as they seem and can turn into a 8-5 season fast.

"I don't believe in quotes" - Karl Klug

by Nature Boy on Jul 1, 2011 8:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Especially if AIRBHG takes his/her act slightly northeast this year. Isn’t it about time for Bielema to lose 6 RBs in one year?

by txhawkeye on Jul 1, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

AIRBHG is so hungry

He decided to take his appetite towards the LBs this past year.

by Captain n Diet Coker on Jul 1, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, I want him to transform into AIDBHG

I never want to see Amari Spievey again. EVER.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 1, 2011 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

So true

I only want to see Spievey in Iowa highlight films.

by PackerHawk on Jul 2, 2011 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

The man stabbed my heart out in consecutive years.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/detroit-lions/09000d5d81cd5705/Lions-defense-INT

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 2, 2011 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ah yes the Mason-Dixon Line...

That magic land that brought us that buck-toothed moron Jimmy Carter; still the worst president of the last eighty years of US history. I was in the army down there in the early seventies and couldn’t have felt more out of place if I was living in Afghanistan.

by Old Badger on Jul 1, 2011 8:46 AM CDT reply actions  

What I love about the mouth-breathers down there...

Are all the national titles the claim prior to 1972. The SEC wasn’t fully integrated until 1972, and arrely did they play any teams from power conferences that were racially integrated. The first time Bear Bryant’s team of inbred hicks played a non-segregated football team from a power conference was when they played USC in 1970, and they got spanked 42-21. Not surprisingly, Bear Bryant called for the University and the football team to be integrated soon after.

Moral of the story: Never recognize a National Championship from an SEC school between 1954 (when all schools of the north and west were finally fully integrated) and 1972 (when the SEC finally ended segregation). Not that it matters. I never recognized any of Alabama’s 7,654 claimed National Titles granted by publications like the Huntsville Area Midget Football Coaches’ Association Newsletter anyway.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Now hold on

Look, if you want to cast a suspect eye upon those teams, that’s fair. But at least be factual about it.

First, in 1965 and 1966, Alabama defeated Nebraska in the Orange and Sugar Bowls (capping a 10-1 National Championship in 1965 and an undefeated non-national championship in 1966). They played Missouri and Colorado in bowls after 1968 and 1969. (They also played Oklahoma in the post-1962 Orange Bowl, but I can’t find confirmation if that team had been integrated yet).

Also, Bryant’s statement on integration was that he wouldn’t be first, but he wouldn’t be third. Kentucky was the first SEC team to integrate, I believe in 1969. Bryant signed his first African-American players in 1970. They were not eligible to play against USC that year (all Frosh were ineligible), but they were on the team. They played the following season (although the first player to actually suit up was a JUCO transfer).

"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Patrick Vint

http://www.offtackleempire.com

by Bama Hawkeye on Jul 1, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough… Your facts are all spot on…. You mention Mizzou and Colorado… They lost to those teams. Crushed by Mizzou 35-10 in 1968 and comfortably dissassembled by Colorado in 1969 by a score of 47-33. Oklahoma was only semi-integrated in 1962.

the 1965 National Championship trophy is extremely suspect. At 8-1-1, Alabama was going to lose out on the vote to 10-0 Michigan State. Coincidentally, this was the first year the AP decided to do the vote AFTER the Bowl Games. Michigan State lost a heartbreaker (14-12) in the Rose Bowl to a fully integrated UCLA team at UCLA’s home field. Alabama beat a semi-integrated Nebraska team in the Orange Bowl.

I’ll concede that the early 1960s AP Championships have a little more validity, as all teams outside the Big Ten and Pac-8 were slower to integrate but still had quality players, but the 1965 title is a joke. Michigan State’s overall strength of schedule was much more difficult. The 1973 Coach’s Poll championship is a joke too. Notre Dame inched out a one point victory over Alabama. Notre Dame would go on to become the AP Champion, thanks to the Michigan-OSU game tie, and the fact that ND did not play Michigan that year. Ohio State and Michigan both finished 10-0-1, and Ohio State went on to spank USC in the Rose Bowl (as opposed to ND’s one point escape of Alabama). AP and Coaches’ Championship should have been shared by OSU and Michigan (and possibly Oklahoma).

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait, let me get this straight

You think two teams that tied should win the national title instead of a team that was 11-0, including beating #1 ranked Alabama because you beat a team that Notre Dame also beat? That’s completely unbiased, I’m sure.

It was not Notre Dame’s choice that Michigan decided to take a 35 year hiatus. That was Fielding Yost’s decision.

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 1, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely not. I’m saying there was no objective way to tell who deserved that National Championship that year. Ohio State, Michigan, and Notre Dame were all deserving, but Notre Dame was the only one who got the title. Should have been split three-ways. If i wanted to make the argument that it should have been held solely by OSU, then I would point out that the common opponents for Notre Dame and Ohio State in 1973 were:

Michigan State – ND beat them by 4, Ohio State beat them by 35
Northwestern – ND beat them by 44, Ohio State beat them by 60
USC – ND beat them by 9, Ohio State beat them by 21.

Again, I’d be totally cool with a three way tie for the NC.

Regardless, Alabama didn’t deserve even the Birmingham Newspaper Sports Writers National Title in 1973.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's not what you said at all
AP and Coaches’ Championship should have been shared by OSU and Michigan (and possibly Oklahoma)

Common opponents is ridiculous. There are far too many variables in football, Unless you believe that Kentucky was as good as Oregon. After all Kentucky also only lost to Auburn by 3

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 1, 2011 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

After reassessing the almanac...

I completely agree with you. Oklahoma didn’t necessarily deserve it.

But I still contend that it should have been shared by ND, OSU, and UM.

And yes, common opponents are ridiculous. I agree. Three common opponents, though, speaks to more of a pattern (albeit it is still not a good argument), but you have to realize that is precisely the sort of stuff the AP would use to judge teams.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because the AP's mission

has always been to vote on who is the best team, not “who beat all the teams on their schedule this year” because (obviously) not all the teams play. If that were the case, Utah should have won the AP National Title in 2008. They didn’t.

If their job were to find an undefeated team and vote for them with no subjective basis on their strength of schedule – which is based on who a team plays, how many wins those teams have, and against whom – then Mt. Union deserves the AP National Title just about every other year.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice Strawman argument. ND's schedule in 73 was just as difficult if not more difficult than OSU's

Both teams played USC who finished at #8. OSU played Michigan who finished at #6, while ND played Alabama who finished at #4. Neither team played another game against a team that finished ranked.

The only real difference between the two teams is 11-0 vs 10-0-1. One of those is objectively better than the other.

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 1, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

If your argument

is that 11-0 is objectively better than 10-0-1 (which it isn’t, because objectivity in comparing the two would require ceteris parabis), then 12-0 would be objectively better than 11-0.

So how about those 1973 National Champion Penn State Nittany Lions?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_State_Nittany_Lions_football_under_Joe_Paterno_(as_an_Independent)#1973_season

I’m not arguing that ND didn’t deserve the AP Championship. I’m arguing that they didn’t deserve sole possession of it.

ND benefited from all the sportswriters in the South voting for them because they beat their beloved Tide, and then the votes in the North were split between OSU, Michigan, and ND.

Just my two cents. You don’t have to call me a strawman or anything else.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

If pressed, I would argue that 12-0 against similar competition is better than 11-0.

That example is a little more murky because of the difference in games played, but they certainly have more claim to the title than either Michigan or OSU. Just as, if the Patriots had gone 19-0, I would have argued that they were objectively better than the Dolphins 17-0. Any time you can add more data points, in this case, games, while still maintaining the expected result, in this case wins, it bolsters the credibility of your argument.

In the case we’re arguing, all teams played 11 games. One of them won all 11, two of them won 10. 11 wins in 11 games is better than 10 wins in 11 games.

I wasn’t calling you a strawman. A strawman argument a debate tactic involving using an extreme and tenuously related example to try to prove your point. In your case it was using 2008 Utah as a example to prove your point about the AP voting. Using an example from 35 years later under a completely different system to prove the thinking of the voters in 1973 is stretching. Your Penn State example would not have been a strawman.

This is fruitless, you clearly think Michigan and OSU deserve the 1973 national title, while I firmly believe they do not.

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 1, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

A golden domer

on a B1G site. Too bad your school is afraid to join.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

A Domer raised in Wisconsin

Which I’m guessing gives me about as much claim to comment here as you have. Something tells me you didn’t actually go to OSU.

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 3, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I spent a week in Vegas

Does that entitle me to be on a UNLV site? Is your team in the B1G? Are you on a B1G site bragging about a team not in the conference? Is notre dame in the B1G?

btw, i spent a summer in California, i guess that means i can go on a Pac 10 site and pretend to care too.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

You didn't answer my question

Did you go to OSU? Or do you just root for them because you grew up in Ohio?

I root for Wisconsin because that’s who I grew up rooting for. I root for ND because they are my alma mater. If they ever played, I’d root for ND.

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 3, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You didn't ask

<em Something tells me you didn’t actually go to OSU.

That is not a question.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just did

Did you go to OSU?

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 3, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

I have had season tix since i was born. I didn’t have to attend to be a fan.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then maybe you shouldn't question whether or not other people should be posting on this site

I have exactly as much claim to post on anything B1G related as you do. Because, as you put it “I didn’t have to attend to be a fan”

The discussion at hand was whether or not 2 big ten schools deserved a National Title. It was pure coincidence that ND happened to be the team involved. I did not start that discussion.

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 3, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are not a fan

This is a site for B1G fans. You are not a fan. I do not go on ND sites and give my opinion. Why? I’m not a fan.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not a fan?

What evidence do you have for that assertion. I’ve been contributing to the discussion of Wisconsin all week. I went to the Rose Bowl in 1999. I regularly talk up the Badgers. I comment on Bucky’s 5th Quarter. I’m a huge Badger fan.

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 3, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who cares

what you think? I can sleep better now knowing where you stand on this Berg.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Glad you can sleep better

The only person who probably cares is the guy with 61 comments in this thread and counting.

I’ll give you three guesses as to who that is.

by Jon Berg on Jul 3, 2011 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was wrong

and apologized to Stempke.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did you attend Wisconsin?

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Have you been paying attention at all

You questioned my right to comment because I am a Domer. I told you have just as much right to comment here as you do, because, while I didn’t go to Wisconsin, like you I grew up rooting for them.

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 3, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are correct

You have every right to be here. I apologize for my questioning your right to be here. I thought you were just some ND fan who hated the B1G. I am sorry for the confusion.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have spent most of my adult life in SEC country and have constantly defended the B1G.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Apology accepted

Glad we could work that out

I aim to misbehave

by stempke on Jul 3, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

In the name of full disclosure,

I didn’t go to Iowa. I’ve lived my whole life in the state, and I went to the Univ. of Northern Iowa. My grandfather and dad each went to school some at U of Iowa. I have several friends who graduated from Iowa.

And, like Berg and Stempke, I think it is good for people from anywhere to be able to post in good faith here or at BHGP or anywhere.

Biggy, I suspected that you were not an OSU graduate, and while I almost never agree with you, I think it is nice that you still root for your favorite team. I don’t have much respect for people who are fair-weather fans (although, without some signs of effort, I may have to approach that status as a fan of the Oakland A’s and the San Fran 49ers. Sometimes, I get the feeling those clubs aren’t trying to get back to winning as much as they could be trying.)

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm a die hard

Cleveland Indians, Cavs, Dolphin fan, i definitely am not fair weather..lol
We can agree to disagree on the other stuff.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have a friend, and his dad, who are Dolphin fans.

I must say, I used to make fun of how bad Ted Ginn Jr. had been doing in the NFL for the ’phins. And then he got traded to the Niners (my fave team).

I guess the joke’s on me now.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ginn

is very puzzling to me. I don’t get it with him. He has talent, but it doesn’t translate. A friend of my sister played for the Niners.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you remember your sister's friend's name?

And I agree about Ginn. When he was drafted, I thought he’d be at least OK in the NFL. Especially with things like kick or punt returns.

If memory serves, I think Ginn was drafted in the first round, about pick #15? I always wondered if that BCS Title Game ankle injury slowed him down, but I guess it didn’t stop him from getting drafted pretty high.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Vinny Sutherland

is his name. He played at Purdue and was a wr/ return specialist for you all. My grandfather also worked for Eddie Sr when he was still paying guys out of his car. The DeBartolo name is sacred in my family.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good info.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good God

Is there anyone on here with whom you won’t pick a needless fight? Are you so unhappy that you have to try and make everyone feel miserable too?

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Jul 3, 2011 7:58 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

The fact that biggy took a shot at Stempke,

and Fake Pelini took a shot at HumbleBuckeye,

makes me think Stempke and HumbleBuckeye are two of the most rational, likable commentors around.

Keep up the nice work, Stempke and HB.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Transitive property!!

Maths are fun!

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Jul 3, 2011 8:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Man I thought you were the humble buckeye.

Had me fooled for a second. You do, however, come up with some of the best strawman arguments I’ve seen on this site.

by Fake Pelini on Jul 1, 2011 11:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

It's so nice.

We NEVER have to get involved in those discussions.

by MNWildcat on Jul 2, 2011 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eh, it wasn't so bad

I was stationed in North Carolina, lower Alabama and the Florida panhandle for most of my career, and the people were very nice. But yeah, I still felt out of place. I HATED the humidity, and I missed the seasonal changes. Trust me, much better place than Afghanistan.

Oh, let’s leave politics off the board, okay? Let’s stick to football.

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 1, 2011 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well said

This is exactly how I feel, but I can never manage to articulate it so nicely. It mostly degrades to gutteral sounds and yelling.

We're gonna go America all over their asses!

by ninerhawk on Jul 1, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Damn you Ronnie Harmon!!!! I will never get over that.

by txhawkeye on Jul 1, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

My brother...and my other brother, for that matter

are huge Iowa fans and swear Harmon was bought off for that game and intentionally fumbled. Always meant to ask this when UI’m tailgating up there with other Iowa fans, but I didn’t want to be the dick that brought it up.

But since you did…do a lot of Hawkeye fans think that, or are they just my loveable, deranged brothers?

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 1, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

He was Reggie Bush before Reggie Bush

He was involved with two sports agents who were giving him “benefits” his senior year in exchange for him agreeing to sign with them. He was driving around in a fur coat in a convertible in Iowa City. Those two sports agents were involved with an enforcer/racketeer in the Colombo crime family. They fixed all sorts of shit. In fact, one of the agents ended up getting murdered in a suspected mob hit. So no, it wasn’t hard to believe that he was throwing the game. I wasn’t THERE but from what I’ve read, highlights and stories I believe he threw it. He didn’t fumble all season…

by mikjones24 on Jul 1, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Harmon with 4 fumbles and a dropped touchdown pass

The rest of the season, 1 fumble.

Nobody knows for sure, but most Hawkeye fans do believe that the fix was in.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields

by rockyh on Jul 1, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

We don’t talk about that game in my parents house.

by PackerHawk on Jul 2, 2011 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

No way

iowa has always been squeaky clean and far above all that.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa make you cry :(

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

But my Cleveland Indians do….. a lot.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Cubs fan here. It hurts

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

The difference was the coverup

Or the non-existent coverup. That’s ok though.

by mikjones24 on Jul 1, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

No way…Iowa has always been squeaky clean and far above all that.

Do you really want me to look up one Art Schilcter?

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who?

Don’t know who you’re talking about

/whistlespastgraveyard

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 3, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

More smoke and mirrors

Fans like you are the reason I hate fOSU.

by Grixxly on Jul 3, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fans like you

who claim to be the moral compass while not admitting your own lack of morality are the reason there are hypocrites. You are very, very quick to point out other’s problems, but when anyone points out yours you whine and cry about it. You have zero right to proclaim how clean your program is while attacking others.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

hmmm

Moral compass? Can you quote please? I haven’t made any such statements. You on the other hand are attacking anyone that points out your guy lied (multiple times), your program cheated, and you got caught.

You claim self-report, yet the reason the tat-five got a five game suspension instead of four was because the NCAA decided you didn’t report in a timely manner and added a game.

Your coach could have easily sent the email he received to compliance yet for some not-believable-reason chose not to.

That same coach played players he knew were ineligible to play, then played dumb in December, then didn’t own up to it until the evidence was in his face.

You can’t bring yourself to admit that your team cheated. It fielded players that would have been ruled ineligible and your coach knew about it. Now whether the rules are ‘good’ or not doesn’t matter, the rules are the rules; and the adult in the room decided to try to sweep this under the rug and got caught.

And your rabid defense of indefensible action confirm you, your team and your fan base base are a bunch of douche bags… fOSU

by Grixxly on Jul 3, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

There you go

You continue to call another program as bad while forgetting about your own team. If cheating (getting tattoos by selling their own things) makes you feel better about the annual whipping your team gets makes you feel better, than go ahead and claim it.

The conversation you trolled on was about Sclichter (a convict that played in the early 80’s) and how quick an iowa fan was to point his troubles out. As a result, i pointed out the legal troubles of iowa. You came in and made a snide comment. I don’t care if you like OSU. In fact no one cares about iowa, except yourselves. Your jealousy is obvious.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you might want to consider help

You can’t be bothered to address my points? Just more smoke and mirrors… sad really…

And here’s a tidbit for you… I’m not jealous of fOSU, I’d nut punch myself if that ever happened… I’m disappointed in fOSU….

by Grixxly on Jul 3, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are right

I should let some iowa guy call me, my team and fanbase douchebags. Go back to the kiddie table troll.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did Schilcter bet while playing for OSU?

I don’t know all the specifics, but I’d say that would be a very bad thing.

I’ll admit that Iowa has had players with bad decisions. But, outside of rumors about Ronnie Harmon, I haven’t heard about too many with severe gambling problems.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure

about Schlichter during his college days, but he sure made up for it. I believe he is a very bad person, not a sick one. Nothing he does would surprise me.

Clarett on the other hand, has really turned his life around. He has battled addiction and is clean and sober now.

Harmon is now coaching somewhere isn’t he? I had never heard of him doing anything improper before. I can tell you that Andre Tippet is a class act though.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ronnie Harmon...

was an assistant coach at Western Illinois from 2003 to 2005.

Now, I think he lives in Washington (the state, not the nation’s capitol). I don’t know if he is coaching at all.

He had two little brothers that made it to the NFL, like him.

And yes, I’ve never heard a bad word about Tippett.

It is good to know that Clarett is doing well. Many people would not make good changes after an episode (the gun charge thing) that he had to pay for. I hope he stays clean and productive. I guess he played some last year for Omaha’s UFL team? I think Brad Banks was on that team, too.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

I will check on Banks. Clarett lives in my town and he is genuinely remorseful and doing well.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I toyed with the idea of going to a game in Omaha last year,

but their season was a bit short. (only 8 games?)

But, this year, if the NFL doesn’t start their season on time, maybe there would be more fans and a more festive atmosphere.

I only live about a 4-hour drive from Omaha, so it would be totally possible for me to get to a Sunday game of theirs.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

One last thing

Tattoos isn’t cheating… playing ineligible players is… TheMoreYouKnow.gif…

by Grixxly on Jul 3, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

one more thing

when would iowa have played OSU? Punishment would have been for 4 games. Your silly argument is weak.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not about Iowa you fucking retard

It’s about your team cheated. And got caught. Keep typing one-handed while looking at a slideshow of Tressel images douche bag…

by Grixxly on Jul 3, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

What if

i get a voice activated keyboard so i can have both hands free? I could use one hand for the slideshow, and one for the Tressel shrine i have been planning to build.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Funny.

rec’d

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Still won’t acknowledge your arrest record…lol

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa players underage drinking =/= OSU coaches conspiring and cheating.

OSU has a culture of corruption. Iowa has a culture of disciplining their student athletes.

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 3, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

You might as well stop talking to this guy

he is not going to listen to you, and the more and more you try to convince him of your point the more he is going to say you are jealous.

We're gonna go America all over their asses!

by ninerhawk on Jul 3, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I get it

I’m done with him. He can go back to playing CandyLand all he wants…

by Grixxly on Jul 3, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa players' legal issues are a source of shame.

Anybody from BHGP will tell you that I’ve been rather harsh toward DJK, or Adam Robinson. When it comes to even more serious cases (Dominique Douglas, James Cleveland, Cedric Everson, Abe Satterfield, Pierre Pierce), I think all Iowa fans are united in condemning their actions.

But, I think most large universities have their share of students with legal issues, particularly with dumb stuff like alcohol, “recreational” drugs, and stupid pranks like streaking in a bar (thanks, Riley Rieff).

I do consider trouble with NCAA regulations as a bit more serious, only because each university theoretically has several adults that should be helping to make the right decisions, even after regulations have been violated. This is not just a comment against OSU, but against other universities (USC, random SEC school, maybe Oregon) as well.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

DJK

is from Ohio…damn Buckeyes again..lol Seriously, it was the whole calling me a douchebag that made me act immature and mention the arrests. I understand that age and privilege will always be a recipe for players getting in trouble.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

2002 would be a better argument if

Iowa didn’t lose to USC in the Orange Bowl. It essentially was a Rose Bowl, but the P10 team didn’t have home field advantage for once. USC was a better team than WSU that year anyway.

by br27 on Jul 1, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

By the end of the season USC was unstoppable

They had one of their patented inexplicable losses early in the year and then completely dominated. Look at the roster for that team and see how many went pro. God I hated that game after the opening kickoff…

"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable

by ClaybornSmash on Jul 1, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

We actually held up for the first half

But the second half… our tiny secondary couldn’t keep up anymore and it was off to the races.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields

by rockyh on Jul 1, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

One thing about that horrendous loss though

is that it taught Ferentz a very valuable lesson in how to prepare his teams for bowl games (he has even talked about this). Only bowl losses under Ferentz—USC, Texas, and Florida. Wins—Texas Tech, Florida, LSU, South Carolina, Georgia Tech, and Mizzou.

by Captain n Diet Coker on Jul 1, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

and that Florida loss

as BULLSHIT. Worse officiating I have never seen.

"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer

by Flakbait on Jul 1, 2011 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Near Chicago

that game is the reason mid-major officials no longer do the upper tier bowl games. I rarely scream at the TV, but it was that bad.

"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer

by Flakbait on Jul 1, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lsu- OSU NCG is one that i really think was badly officiated. I have always thought that B1G teams get screwed by going to play bowl games in other conference’s venues. MSU got jobbed big time in their bowl game against georgia? a few yrs ago too.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure Michigan State never showed up for that game

it’s the only way I can excuse that royally shitty performance. MSU absolutely should have beaten UGA that year. Ugh.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 1, 2011 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm an Ohio State fan

and I was screaming at the TV at the end of that game. it was THAT bad.

In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.

by Pariahwulfen on Jul 2, 2011 2:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

If there's a competition for "worst officiating ever"

the Florida-Iowa game HAS to be in the top three. Iowa got SCREWED.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 1, 2011 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

If you have NEVER seen the Iowa vs. Florida game:

Look here or here. First link shows more bad calls, second link is more in depth. Literally the WORST officiating ever. For the announcers to literally get mad and yell at the refs is extremely rare.

Betcha can't handle this 4-3 cover 2, mofos!

by Gookin on Jul 2, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd forgotten some of those calls

now I have to go grab some rum.

In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.

by Pariahwulfen on Jul 2, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

No kidding

I’m just saying that using 2002 as a defense to not winning the Rose Bowl in a long time would make more sense if Iowa didn’t lose to a P10 team in a bowl that year. Iowa might have beaten WSU, but USC was the best of the P10 and Iowa didn’t beat them.

by br27 on Jul 1, 2011 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Considering that U$C team was well on its way

to becoming a cheating machine lead by a trollfaced head coach and would be absolutely LOADED with NFL LBs and defensive players? Washington State would have been an easier out for Iowa.

Unfortunately, they got stomped.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 1, 2011 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

USC

Was absolutely loaded. I don’t think cheating as much as talent. Still, their fans don’t have to travel, they get to continue their routine. A B1G team has to uproot everyone and adjust. Ditto for all the Florida bowls and the Sugar. The only bowl that seems fair logistically is the Fiesta.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Schools cheat to recruit to talent

Hello! Welcome to College Football Cheating!! Next lesson is the Differrence between Professional and Amateur Competition.

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Jul 1, 2011 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is there a difference?

I am unaware of USC cheating in regards to recruiting. I’m not an USC fan or know that much about their ncaa troubles. Professional and amateurism will come into more focus in the near future. There are more schools to come into national spotlight for scandal.

by biggy84 on Jul 1, 2011 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reggie Bush says hello.

2002 was his redshirt season.

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"If you don't tell him what he wants to hear, he's going to find you out. And when he does, they're going to tear your head off and throw your BODY OUT OF AN AIRLOCK!" - Number Six, "Bastille Day"

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 3, 2011 3:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Reggie Bush

Was he ever accused of getting paid in the recruitment process? I thought he got nailed for getting money from an agent in his junior year. I don’t know that much about usc and am ignorant of their situation.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

There are rumors that a USC booster may have helped Bush's parents

with a house.

I don’t know if any of it has been substantiated.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmmmm

That would definitely change the dynamics of things. At ATO, we had a few guys that write an USC blog come and post and it was educational for me. I was/am very ignorant of their infractions. These guys kind of filled me in on the case, but i am by no means an expert. It was very interesting if you want to take a look.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll have to head over to ATO and look at that sometime.

Here is a link about the Reggie Bush house thing. But I guess it is about agents, not USC boosters. And the article is about 5 years old.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2425136

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 3, 2011 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks

I will read the link. Those guys were very helpful to me.

by biggy84 on Jul 3, 2011 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

At least

you’ve won a bowl game since your last Rose Bowl win…

But ‘nyah nyah, it’s still been 50+ years!‘… yeah, that’ll work.

/pats self on back, drinks self to sleep.

by MNWildcat on Jul 2, 2011 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's okay.

We will always have Alvarez’s last home game. But we will also win a Rose Bowl again. “Most recent” accomplishments will change. “Last home game” losses don’t.

by PackerHawk on Jul 2, 2011 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Iowa's Rose Bowl opponents may have been a bit tougher than Wisky's.

Now, Iowa got spanked in two of their Rose Bowls, so I’m not trying to say Iowa is better than Wisky. But I am saying Wisky had a couple of Rose Bowl opponents (Stanford, UCLA) who were 8-3. Iowa only had one opponent with 8 wins (UCLA), and those Washington teams were pretty tough.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jul 2, 2011 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's hard for me to hate Bucky, as I respect them and the way they play football

however, there are a few things I hate about the them:

-Lee Evans (Mariah’s got nothing on him when it comes to bein’ a Heartbreaker)
-Bret Bielema ( I just hate his face, and his horribly placed bird tattoo)
-Ron Dayne (mostly for being awesome)
-Gilreath (less for the TD return, more for the thousand fake end arounds I have to suffer through all game)
-Jay Valai (dirty player, bad mohawk)
-JJ Watt (for being the proverbial Freddy to my nightmares)

With the #1 overall pick in the Rapture Draft, God chooses the Macho King Randy Savage

by BuckeyeSki on Jul 1, 2011 9:15 AM CDT reply actions  

I feel the same way. I really want to hate Iowa, but I just can't.

There’s too much in common between the programs, we both love kicking Minnesota’s ass, and they technically gave us both Barry and Bielema. Plus, I always have a good back and forth with the Iowa fans that I know. I’ll miss the yearly game a lot.

Bucky's 5th Quarter The best site for Badger news on the web!

Follow me on Twitter for the latest Badger Bits @JohnVeldhuis

On, Wisconsin!

by John Veldhuis on Jul 1, 2011 9:35 AM CDT reply actions  

I can

Damn you Marvin McNutt and your 2009 last-second touchdown against MSU.

by SpartyFever on Jul 1, 2011 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

...

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields

by rockyh on Jul 1, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

All the Wisconsin alums I've met outside of Wisconsin are great

The Wisconsin fans that actually live in Wisconsin and never went to UW are another story. Actually very similar to Iowa fans in that regard… damn, we really are the same program

"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable

by ClaybornSmash on Jul 1, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that this statement is very true about most large state schools

It is very true about Ohio State. I can’t stand some of the “die hard” fans that live in Ohio that have never stepped foot in a college classroom, much less one at tOSU. Not to say you don’t deserve to cheer for a school that gets some fo your tax money – you absolutely have that right – but these sorts of fans are much less tempered.

Tailgated with some Iowa fans before the de facto Big Ten Championship Game in 2009. Had a blast with them. Mutual respect between rational fans is what makes a tailgate fun for visiting fans.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

^^^THIS^^^

"Lord I pray for the eyes of an eagle, the heart of a lion and the balls of a combat helicopter pilot."

The Daily Norseman
Off Tackle Empire
SB Nation Minnesota

by Ted Glover on Jul 1, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

You've got that right
Mutual respect between rational fans is what makes a tailgate fun for visiting fans.

"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable

by ClaybornSmash on Jul 1, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

That and

challenging each other to a variety of drinking games.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields

by rockyh on Jul 1, 2011 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Of course we did that

and a few drunken dance offs.

Iowa fans can certainly drink. But then again, all Big Ten fans can drink. My trip to Tuscaloosa proved to me that Big Ten fans can drink wayyyy more beer than SEC fans (now whiskey might be different).

7:30 AM on 9/11/2010: Penn State fans are all awake, drinking cheap beer (or Yuengling…mmm, Yuengling), and cooking breakfast.
11:00 AM on 9/11/2010: All the Bama fans finally rise, down a few shots of whiskey chased with a beer, and start screaming like they’re hammered.
11:05 AM on 9/10/11: Already ten beers deep, Penn State fans sit calmly in lawn chairs and roll eyes as Bama fans perfect drinking amateurism.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

And by the way...

Any visiting Big Ten fan is welcome at my tailgate, but please bring YUENGLING!!!! We can’t get it in Ohio, and it depresses me.

by TheHumbleBuckeye on Jul 1, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

It makes you sad?

I can’t get it without a thousand mile drive. You can at least nip over the border.

by Albino Tornado on Jul 1, 2011 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions