2011 Closing Arguments - Michigan State
by MSULaxer27 on Aug 30, 2011 4:58 PM CDT
in Michigan State
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Five All-Americans in 1965 (l to r): Apisa (45), Jones (26), Smith (95), Washington (84), and Webster (90).
I. Case History/Opening Statement
A. Case History
We all know what happened last year for the Spartans 11-2 (7-1) B1G co-champs*, hopefully the last shared championship in B1G history. A case could be made that Michigan State University received the short end of the stick when bowl selections were made, but bowl selections are as much for what you have done as for what you did in a season. The horror show for MSU faithful that was the Capital One Bowl left Spartan fans little room to argue that the wrong teams were picked for the Rose and Sugar Bowls. I might suggest that no team in America was beating an angry Alabama team stocked with talent including four future NFL first round draft picks that had four weeks to prepare, but it really doesn't matter. We are fans, we are sure of what is right and what is true and what matters. The MSU football team was overmatched and it underwhelmed on its biggest stage of the 2010 season.
B. Opening Statement
Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I could spend time conjuring up a case based on fancy statistics explaining why I have great confidence in MSU at the dawn of a new era of B1G football, instead I offer the following information:
The 2011 Spartans return from a team that won 11 games:
A senior QB who is a three year starter and captain.
Three running backs who would receive significant carries on most teams in the B1G, one of whom it has been suggested will play on Sundays.
Skill position players (WR/TE) touted as the deepest in the B1G.
A WR/KR/PR who has scored a TD in five ways (rushing, receiving, passing, KR, PR) and has three scores (rushing, receiving and KR) of 80 yards or more.
A defensive line anchored by an NFL prospect who is joined 6-7 280 DE/LB that has a cousin who does used to play on Sundays.
A line backing corps that lost one of the greatest LBs in Spartan history, but his replacement is a player who was literally bred to wear green and play linebacker as his father (LB), grandfather and two uncles(LB) played for MSU. His grandfather (MSU/Green Bay) and uncle (UCLA) coached the position.
I don't point to this bevy of riches to suggest that the Spartans are invincible. They are not. There are significant questions on the offensive line but the 2010 version of the O-line introduced three new starters as well, and we saw them jell into an effective unit by the end of the season. I am also certain that each team in the B1G can point to positions of experience, strength, talent, lineage and potential to reach the next level. I am merely highlighting ours.
II. Discovery
A. What We Can Learn From Pop Culture
If you are at work or have a delicate constitution, please turn down your volume.
Coffee or in our case BCS Bowl Games are for closers. In four instances that I measure as opportunities for MSU to make a statement and prove that they belong on the national stage and in the top ranks of the polls they have stumbled.
To wit:
In 2008, 7-1 MSU hosts 7-1 OSU. The B1G lead is on the line. MSU has a chance to show the seven prior years of mediocrity have passed. Result: OSU 45 MSU 7. Later that same season 9-2 MSU gets another chance. Win in Happy Valley for the first time since 1966 and share the B1G title for the first time since 1990. Result: PSU 49 MSU 18. In 2010, the 8-0 Spartans steam into Iowa, with a win MSU will maintain at least a one game lead in the race to a outright B1G title. Result: Iowa 37 MSU 6. Finally, 11-1 B1G co-champ* MSU heads to Orlando with a chip on their shoulder after the BCS snub. Result: Alabama 49 MSU 7.
To paraphrase our intrepid speaker above: First place is the Rose Bowl. Second place is the Sugar Bowl. Third place?! Third place is forgettable "insert your sponsor here" bowl.
III. Emotional Plea
This is an emotional plea. It is not a rational or maybe even realistic one. If you are interested in a rational or realistic prediction I can point you toward plenty of websites or glossy publications. This isn't even an emotional plea to my colleagues who have reached their verdicts before hearing my arguments, nor to the visitors to this site, who are fans in their own right and are sure of what is right and what is true.
My emotional plea is to the Michigan State football team itself. It has been suggested that MSU may actually have a better team this year, but wind up with a worse record. Great football minds speculate that the gauntlet of games at Notre Dame, at Ohio State, at Nebraska and at Iowa will prove simply too much to handle. That these games will in effect break MSU's season. Good teams split those games. Great teams win three out of four of those games. Memorable teams sweep that slate.
The pieces are in place for the Spartans to have a special season. It is time to step up. To make a statement. To close. It is time to become memorable, like those five gentlemen pictured at the beginning of this column. Become memorable.
IV. Verdict
A. The Staff Calls the Games
All of the staff here at the OTE have MSU reaching bowl eligibility for the fifth season in a row (although Ricardo sees the East Lansing letter-men as just barely eligible). Staff picks average out to a 9-3 (5-3 B1G) season for MSU. Besides Bama, I am the only one who sees MSU besting Nebraska. I am the only one who envisions the Spartans as the Legends division's initial representative in the B1G championship game. I am probably one of the few people on the planet not institutionalized who see MSU winning the inaugural B1G championship game. I could have made a safely bland prediction of 8-4 with an Insight Bowl win against whatever equally mediocre Big XII team they match us up with; where is the fun in that? Great risk yields great reward. If I'm wrong. I'm wrong. On the internet.
Bama: 8-4 (5-3 B1G) losses to ND, Michigan, UW, Iowa
Ted: 9-2 (6-2) losses to UW, NU-L **
Jon: 10-2 (6-2) losses to UW, NU-L
Chad: 9-3 (5-3) losses to UW,NU-L, NU
MSUlaxer27: 11-1 (7-1) loss to UW
Ricardo: 6-6 (3-5) losses to ND, OSU, UW, NU-L, Indiana, NU
Paterno Ave: 10-2 (6-2) losses to Michigan, NU-L
Husker: 8-4 (4-4) losses to OSU, UW, NU-L, NU
Hilary: 8-4 (5-3) losses to ND, OSU, UW, NU-L
JDMill: 7-5 (4-4) losses to ND, OSU, Michigan, NU-L, Iowa
Graham: 9-3 (6-2) losses to ND, NU-L, Iowa
* After OSU vacated the season, you can decide for yourself how many co-champs there in fact were in 2010.
**Ted appears to have some issues with math or else he thought MSU would just take an extra week off.
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ummm
A case could be made that Michigan State University received the short end of the stick when bowl selections were made
I guess you didn’t say a STRONG case…
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 30, 2011 5:26 PM CDT reply actions
DERP
I tweet here: @thewhitetiger16
I blog here: The Wolverine Blog
I contribute here: BT Powerhouse
...
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
"Don't mention execution around Paul Johnson. People will die." -Chris Pendley, on EDSBS
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Sep 4, 2011 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Put your hand down, Buckeye.
Your team cheated.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
by Spartan D on Aug 30, 2011 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
MSU losing to Indiana? This year? At home?
LOL. LOL forever.
by Pete Rossman on Aug 30, 2011 5:30 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
I already said I will do something somewhat embarrassing if the following two things come to pass:
1: MSU loses to Indiana at Home
2. This win is Indiana’s only conference win in 2011.
Details, should hell freeze over, later if this should come to pass.
Only slightly less ridiculous...
…are the numbskulls picking us to lose at home, at night, versus Michigan.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
Vernon Gholston won't be playing on Sundays anymore.
And I guess that I’ll throw this in here:
Michigan State has a better team than last year and loses to UW, OSU, UNL, and Notre Dame to go 8-4.
I tweet here: @thewhitetiger16
I blog here: The Wolverine Blog
I contribute here: BT Powerhouse
And it pains me to no end
but I have a sinking feeling that MSU will take Michigan to the woodshed. Other than UNL and ND, that’s the scariest game for me.
I tweet here: @thewhitetiger16
I blog here: The Wolverine Blog
I contribute here: BT Powerhouse
Vern won't play anymore
but somehow made Jake Long his bitch.
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 30, 2011 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd ask Barry Bonds how that works
/I know nothing was proven
I tweet here: @thewhitetiger16
I blog here: The Wolverine Blog
I contribute here: BT Powerhouse
ask chad henne
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 30, 2011 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry for being snarky
It was more of a dig on OSU than anything else. William will be a very good player and last longer in the NFL than Vernon methinks.
I tweet here: @thewhitetiger16
I blog here: The Wolverine Blog
I contribute here: BT Powerhouse
My prediction is 9-3 (5-3)
It’s worth noting that the offensive line returns arguably the best guard tandem in the Big Ten. I think we’ll be okay at C and RT, but I’m very nervous about the LT position.
One thing I’d like to add to your opening statement is that we return 2 All Big Ten members in the secondary.
NU-L?
Only Nebraska fans would get upset over something like that.
Then again, only Nebraska fans would call us the Hogeyes and think any Iowa fan is actually insulted by it.
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Aug 30, 2011 6:16 PM CDT reply actions
We already have an NU. No matter if most thing that the school's initials are "NW"
It is the older school and has been in the conference longer therefore to differentiate between the two, I’ve let everyone know when I am talking about NU-Lincoln hence: NU-L.
Interestingly enough the school in Omaha that plays hockey goes by UNO.
They're pretty proud of the Omaha distinction, though.
UNO is actually formerly known as Omaha College (or Omaha Tech… something like that). Anyhow, when the University system got cobbled together, Omaha was more than happy to be UNO. While we’re here, UNO hockey is really fun and any and all B1G fans should try to make the trip. We play in a huge arena right now with plans of a smaller one soon. It’s usually good hockey, and we’re only getting better (I feel slightly less weird using the almighty WE here because I did go to UNO for three years and have been a hockey fan for almost all of my life).
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
by KennardHusker on Aug 30, 2011 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks.
Most of us B1G hockey fans are familiar with UNO as they were our conference mates in the CCHA (along with OSU and UMich) before leaving for the WCHA to join UW and Minny.
Ah MSU...
So here’s my favorite story about MSU hockey. The Spartans were in town and it was rockin’ at the Qwest center. UNO manages to always get the best of teams in game one at home… Anyhow, by the middle of the third period there were a bazillion penalties with the captains standing at center ice shaking their heads as guys pummeled each other. I have never been to a college game with more fights. Anyhow, I leave the building on a definite high and get a call from my buddy, “Did you see the fight!” I thought he had been to the game too but didn’t find us… Nope, Artest melee. That was a fun night.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
by KennardHusker on Aug 30, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
6-6?
Someone’s still butthurt over the beating their favorite team received last year at the hands of the Spartans. This is almost as ludicrous as the proclamation about Michigan already regaining their former glory under Big Brady – without a snap even being played.
Do yourself a favor, Ricardo. Retire from ‘objective’ analysis and spend your free time swimming with Bucky Badger.
Out of curiosity, when and where did I ever make a claim to, or even feign, objectivity? And at what point did I ever fancy myself as anything other than a very open partisan? You don’t like my prognostication? Fine. Is that reasonable cause to reference anal sex? Probably not.
Stay classy, cwel87.
Author at Off Tackle Empire
and Errant Pass Downfield
@RicardoEfendi
by Ricardo Efendi on Aug 30, 2011 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK, so the first response was a bit crude.
Still, I’d like to know what basis — seeing as Indiana needs to replace its quarterback, two of its top three receivers, and two of its top four tackers off a defense that aspires to be mediocre — you chose Indiana to beat MSU.
I don’t care if you admit you took a flyer, an absolute shot in the dark. Either you are very, very high on Kevin Wilson as a head coach, or are forecasting an MSU meltdown of epic proportions. I just don’t see how a fan who knows what Indiana and MSU return this season can pick Indiana to beat MSU in East Lansing at this point.
by Pete Rossman on Aug 30, 2011 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
It’s several things. If you go back over the Indiana preview I had them winning exactly one conference game- this one. So while I’m high on Kevin Wilson, I’m certainly not expecting him to set the world on fire.
My reasoning is as follows:
1) As you can see, I’m just not high on MSU. Questions on the offensive line worry me. As does the loss of Greg Jones.
2) I do feel MSU was very, very lucky last year. The only impressive victory was over Wisconsin (against a banged up team and at home), and they proceeded to dodge multiple bullets. I’m not trying to take anything away from them: they played the hand they were dealt, and they played it well. So, while you see an 11-1 team last season, I see one that was dangerously close to 7-5. Also (and as someone who observes the team far more closely than do I, correct me if I’m wrong) MSU seemed to avoid the injury bug last year: is that going to happen two years in a row?
3) For the reasons listed in #2, combined with a much tougher schedule this year, I just don’t see MSU being that good this season. So why have I prefaced all this to defend my Indiana pick? As we head towards the end of the season, I’m guessing MSU will be reeling a bit emotionally from a down season. Indiana, on the other hand, will have nothing to lose. That’s a toxic combination.
That’s a lot of qualifications and I justifiably get heat for it. Which is fine. But, as of mid-August (when the picks were made), that’s how I see the season playing out. In the past I’ve picked a 13 seed over a 4 and the Patriots over the Rams. Something crazy happens every year that makes no sense. It may very well be Jerry Kill making a statement against Wisconsin. I happen to think it’s going to be Indiana over an MSU team I forecast will be down.
Author at Off Tackle Empire
and Errant Pass Downfield
@RicardoEfendi
by Ricardo Efendi on Aug 30, 2011 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Greg Jones was a wee bit overrated
and they won’t miss him that much. The luck and regression to the mean part is dead-on though, and when you add in their schedule, well, it would be a miracle to get to 11-1.
I tweet here: @thewhitetiger16
I blog here: The Wolverine Blog
I contribute here: BT Powerhouse
11-1 is one thing
6-6 is entirely another. That assumes catastrophic injuries that we simply have no merit or substance to predict right now.
Is it possible the Spartans end the season at 6-6? Absolutely. It’s possible they end the season at 5-7. But no one who deems their opinion to be worthy of merit considers that plausible, given the information at everyone’s disposal at this time.
Kirk Cousins could go down, then Andrew Maxwell could go down, then Edwin Baker could do down, then Larry Caper could go down, then the offensive line could go down, then Jerel Worthy could go down. Why would one hedge their bets on it? Because they have a .05% chance of looking like a ‘genius’ at the end of the season, when all it happened to be was joke luck?
It’s stupid. End of story.
Its absolutly plausable and not stupid at all
the 1-11 purdue was much dumber than a 6-6 MSU
I get you have your green colored glasses on. i get it. but almost all of your tough games are away and MSU didnt exactly inspire confidence last year in their losses. you could lose as many as 7 games and i wouldnt be surprised. Iowa returned most of a BCS bowl winning team and lost 5 games, including one to Minnesota, so i dont know why some MSU fans think that their team is completely immune to legitimately losing 6 games
and yes, i do think Indiana is capable of beating MSU. if Purdue can beat OSU, if Minny can beat Iowa, why cant Indiana beat MSU?
besides, its one random blogger’s opinion. who really cares?
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Aug 30, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I am most assuredly biased as I wrote both pieces.
And I will admit, as I have done in a few places, that these predictions were both a stretch. I pushed the envelope in both directions.
I just find it hard to believe a good MSU team returning most of its pieces will get be that appreciably worse just based on the schedule.
I also find it that hard to believe that a bad Purdue team with (even more now) QB questions and absolutely no off season hype will be that appreciably better.
I think it more likely that MSU hold serve at 11-1 (or even drop to 10-2) than it is for Purdue to stay at 4-8 or improve to 5-7.
It’s a prediction. In August. And it’s worth the paper it’s printed on.
Reasons to be worried?
You’re a pro-style, power-run, play-action pass team that lost 3/5ths of its offensive line and, to date, Dantonio has shown no evidence that he can simply reload along the line. Add to that losing two multi-year starters in the LB corps, two players responsible for a metric shit-ton of the team’s tackles the past couple years PLUS lose the only good player in your secondary and I think there’s plenty of reason to be concerned. MSU has a lot of raw, young talent, but I’d be skittish about that many youngsters.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
We lose the only good player in our secondary??
We bring back Trenton Robinson (Safety) and Johny Adams (CB) who were both all Big Ten 2nd Team last year.
Oh, my bad
you’re totally going 12-0 now
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Aug 31, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Johnny Adams is very good
Trenton Robinson is good. When you have a very good defensive line, that takes plenty of pressure off the secondary to begin with. And, by all accounts, Michigan State’s is a very good defensive line.
Our projected starting linebackers were all highly-touted recruits, and if the previous seasons were any indication, Dantonio has a clue when it comes to coaching up linebackers. No one’s saying they’re going to replace the production of Jones and Gordon, but then again, they don’t have to.
Dantonio has shown ‘no real evidence’? Really. That’s going to be your argument? Because I could take ‘the line is a question mark’, but the idea that Dantonio has shown ‘no real evidence’ he can coach an offensive line is just silly at its core. I recall a similar situation with returning offensive line starters last season. Do your homework before spouting off on Dantonio’s ‘track record’.
It’s understandable to be skittish. 6-6 is not skittish, though. 6-6 is taking into account plenty of caveats that are frankly lazy, biased, and uninformed.
Their. Two. Losses.
I care about the ever-evolving stupidity I see in this country. Baseless opinions without any real facts (no, the ‘injury bug’ does not count as one) to substantiate a claim are at the heart of it.
Another nail in the coffin right here.
I meant 11-1 as in repeating what they did last year.
I’d be beyond surprised to see 6-6 myself, but hey, I wouldn’t complain.
I tweet here: @thewhitetiger16
I blog here: The Wolverine Blog
I contribute here: BT Powerhouse
The question is: Were those close wins a function of youth and/or inexperience?
Could this team “level up” based on those same experiences.
I think if the losses to Iowa and Bama were closer, people might buy in more to this being a team on the cusp of greatness.
I see those losses for the positive change they might effect. A close loss might lead one to believe they are better than they are. The two losses the team actually suffered might make them realize (and as stories of work this off season show to some extent) how much farther they have to go.
I’m not sure, but I certainly believe it is possible for MSU to surpass expectations.
I see your line of reasoning.
However, you’ve predicated your prediction entirely on what you think MSU suffering many injuries, losing more than its fair share of games, and being in a toxic emotional state. For as lucky as you claim MSU was last season, they’d have to be equally unlucky to suffer the maladies you claim.
The biggest thing missing here? You haven’t mentioned any of Indiana’s players, coaches, or how they could possibly beat a depleted Spartan team. Even if these things happen to MSU, I think their backups would be able to fill in and beat a Hoosier team that’s still finding their way this year.
by Pete Rossman on Aug 30, 2011 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
To be fair, the prediction (for the season) is not based on MSU suffering many injuries, but rather its fair share. Everyone likes to harp on the skill position players Sparty has. That’s nice. But with the question marks on the offensive line, all those skill position players will be more exposed to injury than they were last year. This translates, as well, to less TOP and therefore more wear and tear on the defense (leading to more injuries on that side of the ball and more losses on the season). And, of course, Sparty plays against three attacking defenses with superior front sevens: Nebraska, Ohio State, and Wisconsin (permit my bias: they return Chris Borland and will have a 10-man rotation on the defensive line).
So, a few losses (quite possibly some coming via the morale-breaking seven points or less variety), a few injuries, and suddenly the wheels are coming off. In this context is a loss to Indiana completely out of the picture? I don’t think so. I understand you’re looking for an argument in Indiana’s favor- I offer none beyond the observation that a good first-year coach, irrespective his team’s lack of talent, almost always pulls a shocker. Several months out, I have a feeling about this. It’s a hunch: nothing more, nothing less.
Author at Off Tackle Empire
and Errant Pass Downfield
@RicardoEfendi
by Ricardo Efendi on Aug 30, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
And I accept that it's a hunch
But it’s one hell of a hunch, it’s the equivalent of betting 00 on the roulette table. It’s not just that Indiana’s a 5-7 team, it’s that they’re losing Ben Chappell, who helped them get the majority of the wins. I know that it’s a risk — one I wouldn’t take, knowing the MSU two-deep as well as I do.
That said, if by chance Indiana beats MSU, I will be the first one to give you credit.
by Pete Rossman on Aug 30, 2011 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree that betting on Indiana to beat MSU might be unwise
But no one ever lost money betting on SPARTY NOOOOOOO!!!!! to happen at some point.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Your reasons are not reasons at all
I’m done. I don’t value the opinion of children, and the evidence you bring forth is something a four-year old could muster.
And for the record
The only times I’ve ever been annoyed by any ‘analysis’ on SBNation sites is from yourself and BH. And I frequent many of them.
Perhaps it’s more you than you ever care to believe.
I never use chatspeak
With that caveat, LOL
1) Your reasoning is you’re not high on MSU? That’s a bombshell. There are questions on the offensive line – don’t most major programs face questions on the offensive line after an 11-1 season? – and Greg Jones leaving will impact the team. You have no arguments on this bullet – but everyone already knows this.
2) ‘Dangerously close to 7-5’? What, because we didn’t win 80-21? Anyone who actually watched the Spartans play last year has noted that in many of the close games luck was actually against them, not in their favor as everyone inexplicably suggests. Check the fumble recovery/loss rates for and against, the total offensive yards, and tell me that State didn’t outplay the competition (by a decent margin) in almost every contest they won.
And there it is. We’ve made it to the infallible ‘injury bug’ argument. Wonderful. Had to know it was coming, because, well, there’s really not much else to latch on to at this stage.
3) The schedule is much tougher! Right you are. But of course, a team returning its skill positions almost entirely intact on the offensive side of the ball, not to mention a deep defense with an outstanding front four (including a potential top-5 prospect) and strong secondary, and you have the makings of a team who will, as the pundits say, in all likelihood be better than they were last season, and not end up with as good a record.
And so, the preseason analysis of the battle for the Old Brass Spittoon is determined not by the players on the field, but by ‘toxic combinations’ being prophesied nearly three months in advance . That’s cool. Sounds like something I’ve heard from Mark May.
And we wrap it up with past predictions gone right. That’s just super. Of course, the idea that your ‘toxic’ game is predicated on the Spartans proving you right for eleven games when your other predictions involved one lone game don’t bear any relevance to two other isolated performances.
Points one and three were completely valid, although nothing you offered was exactly a revelation to anyone. And it’s reasonable to suggest State’s record will take a step back as a result of a more difficult schedule. But five steps? Over the course of an entire season? Given the information we have now, that’s wrong. You’re wrong for thinking this, and I simply don’t believe that you think this for only the reasons you’re stating.
There’s no other way I can put it.
You stay out of analysis, Ricardo
You’re very, very bad at it.
There’s only one logical explanation for you to put an 11-1 team at 6-6. And that’s because dey made yow vewy vewy mad wast weer.
Your contrarian (just for the sake of being contrarian, because no one who actually watches football is honestly stupid enough to believe 6-6 is a realistic preseason prediction at this juncture for MSU’s 2011 campaign) prediction is just as childish as my retort.
Sawwy if I huht yowr feewings.
Re: classiness
Case and point. Baseless personal attacks prove your immaturity, not the poor foundations of my argumentation.
Author at Off Tackle Empire
and Errant Pass Downfield
@RicardoEfendi
by Ricardo Efendi on Aug 30, 2011 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Re: stupidity
I don’t treat people’s opinions with respect if they don’t deserve respect.
I’m not here to kiss your ass, I’m here to tell you you’re wrong.
You’re wrong.
Anal sex?
Is “swimming with Bucky” a euphamism? If so, I’d love to hear the backstory on that one.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
Butthurt
Although I thought this was more an internet meme reflecting excessive sensitivity than a reference to any particular act you might find at the urban dictionary.
It could happen
The beatings your team took in your two losses made the impression that you were a team that is…………well……..meh.
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Aug 30, 2011 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Besides, who did you really beat last year?
Wisconsin is your only real top 25 victory, and that was at home. all the other teams were………meh
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Aug 30, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
If we're being fair
besides MSU, OSU, and Wisconsin, all the teams in the Big Ten were …meh. Out of MSU, OSU, and Wisconsin, MSU had the toughest bowl opponent. Michigan State chose a heck of a game to lay an egg in Iowa.
by Pete Rossman on Aug 30, 2011 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
woot, third response to my own post
But i could see you losing to OSU, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern. 6-6 right there.
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Aug 30, 2011 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
All those games MSU could definitely lose
But what are the chances they lose all six? I say very, very small. A lot of things would have to happen for Michigan State to lose every one of those games.
by Pete Rossman on Aug 30, 2011 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Five of those games are away games
And MSU doesnt do nearly as well in away games as they do in home games.
the one that isnt an away game is Wisconsin which is probably the best team in the Big Ten this year.
i personally would pick yall losing 4, but honestly losing 6 seems like it could easily happen
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Aug 30, 2011 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
It could
but MSU won three of its four away games last season — Michigan, Northwestern and Penn State, bowl teams all. I think the absolute craplosion against Iowa was a bit of an anomaly, but the Alabama game doesn’t help that argument.
If MSU went 8-4 losing four of those games, I wouldn’t be the happiest camper around, but I’d accept it.
by Pete Rossman on Aug 30, 2011 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t think the Iowa game was an aberration at all. MSU’s defense wasn’t playing like it had against Wisconsin (where they held Wisconsin to a very, very low 3rd down percentage and won DESPITE 3 turnovers of their own), and Iowa (coming off a DEVASTATING loss to Wisconsin at home the previous week) came out swinging. The Hawkeyes got 3 TDs, no INTs, and ran for 162 yards (Iowa’s season high against Big ten opponents) and another touchdown.
Add in the play of Kirk Cousins, who seemingly made half a decade’s worth of mistakes in a single game, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 31, 2011 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, and congratulations
you defeated the worst Penn State team of the past five years on its homefield. What. An. Accomplishment.
Srsly, no. Illinois’s win in State College was a LOT more convincing than MSU’s.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 31, 2011 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Except that off the top of my head...
We’ve beaten ND something like 6 of the last 7 in South Bend and it would have been 7 of 7 had it not been for a young inexperienced QB mistake. That same QB is now our senior starter.
Over the last 20 years MSU is 5-3 in Evanston.
I didn’t say it would be easy…but I’m really interested to see how this season plays out.
Inexperienced QB mistake?
Oh, you mean like this one?
Wait, that’s an EXPERIENCED QB mistake.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Aug 31, 2011 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I have a prediction....
You all will be very very pissed off when the Spartans are playing in the Rose Bowl on January 1.
Mark it down, haters. This is our year.
"Everyone who drinks is not a poet. Maybe some of us drink because we're not poets." - Arthur Bach
but what if we mark it down..
and WE’RE right?
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Aug 30, 2011 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I had them 10-2
This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morrisette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"--Sterling Archer
Interesting world you live in
MSU 11-1
Purdue 1-11
Right.
Dosvidaniya, bitches! BTFU!
by BoilerUpAT on Aug 31, 2011 6:28 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Made his own bed
Great football minds speculate that the gauntlet of games at Notre Dame, at Ohio State, at Nebraska and at Iowa will prove simply too much to handle.
clearly, he is not one of those “great football minds” – he has them winning all of those games. But he gets more attention this way.
>Hoosier by birth, Boilermaker by the grace of God
>Don't cry, MSU - It's just a game...
by sea.of.white on Aug 31, 2011 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I've read quite a few previews that have the Spartans at 10-2.
Two of the other writers here have us at 10-2.
Three other writers here have us winning 9 games.
Is it really that imaginative to suggest that with all that we bring back, including a coaching staff that has moved the program forward, that we can win 2 more games?
My preview wasn’t written to get attention. It wasn’t written to compete with previews that really heavily on statistical analysis. It was written from a fan’s perspective. As a fan I think it is possible that we win 11 games.
We might not meet the expectations that I set here for the 2011 season, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that we could. As I said before, this is an internet prediction on a B1G fansite. If I’m wrong, so be it.
I am sorry you and the Purdue fans that come here have taken such exception to my preview of your team. I think I understand, what you perceive as the “disrespect” directed at Purdue football, but really what has your school done in the off season to suggest that this season will be any better than last? What has your program done historically to earn respect?
Historically to earn respect?
Oh, I forgot, you think we started playing football at Purdue in 1999.
Dosvidaniya, bitches! BTFU!
I don't think that at all. I am aware of Purdue's football history
In 115 seasons of participation in B1G football Purdue has won 8 championships.
The University of Chicago, which last fielded a team in the B1G 72 seasons ago, has won 7.
I just don’t get the righteous indignation.
If I had picked an 8-4 team returning most of its starters and boatloads of talent to go 1-11 you could say I was ignorant or just being mean.
Instead I picked a team that went 4-8 last year losing its last 6 games, losing to a MAC team at home, with questions at QB and the skill positions, that had lost its best defensive player to go 1-11. Is there truly that much of a difference between 3-9 and 1-11? I looked at the situation in West Lafayette and saw the potential for a horror show and picked accordingly.
Believe me, if I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it.
You opened the door....
… you can’t get all pissy when someone walks through it.
Of the four games that you highlighted – ND, OSU, Neb, and Iowa – two of those you didn’t even play last year. It took a trick play in overtime to beat ND (thing of beauty, btw), and Iowa beat you to a bloody pulp. All Ws, eh? Hell – it took a huge 4th quarter rally for MSU to beat Purdue! Half the team was on crutches at that point in the season.
But this isn’t about Purdue – it’s about MSU. And the real question is – What has your school done in the off season to suggest that this season will be any better than last? Reading the Off-season Power Rankings – apparently nothing.
So, imaginative? No, the word you are looking for is ‘asinine’.
>Hoosier by birth, Boilermaker by the grace of God
>Don't cry, MSU - It's just a game...
by sea.of.white on Sep 1, 2011 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't buy it, but the Omaha paper is all over MSU
We had a Big XII beat writer who only covered the conference and not Nebraska specifically and now he gets to do the same for the B1G. In the ridiculously big college football preview magazine they release each year they went team by team, and predicted MSU as the Legends champ… Of course, they chose that @ 9-3 for MSU over 9-3 Nebraska.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
by KennardHusker on Aug 31, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's do a slight rearrangement of wins...
In the last four years (the Dantonio era) MSU has won 7,9, 6, and 11 games. These numbers look a bit up and down (mostly due to the down of 2009).
But let’s shift 2 wins from 2010 to 2009. Actually, that’s what happened in a very close possible world—one in which MSU recovered an on-side kick against CMU in 2009, in which Iowa failed in its last minute drive against MSU in 2009, in which the Little Giants play against Notre Dame failed in 2010, and in which the trick play against Northwestern failed in 2010.
Then the win totals would look like this: 7, 9, 8, 9.
I submit that this picture is very close to our reality. MSU has essentially become a steady 8-win team under Dantonio. I expect MSU to win about 8 games this season, because MSU seems to have become a program of that caliber and this season’s team appears to be as good as the team of last year and the year before that (and quite possibly better).
I do think that MSU will be the most significant team in the B10 to watch this year, however, because we will learn a great deal about the trajectory of the MSU program from this season. If MSU finishes with fewer than 8 wins, it will be a pretty good sign that the program has plateaued. If they win 10 games or more, it will be a good sign that MSU is set to become one of the major football powers in the conference.
Pay close attention to the first four B1G games
You mentioned the wrong four-game gauntlet.
@OSU
Mich – Home
Wisc – Home
@Neb
These will make or break the season. As a collective group, this WILL be a better team than last year, but the record will be worse.
Remember back to last year, that MSU played only one road game outside the state of Michigan (@NW in front of one of the weakest home crowds in the B1G outside of Bloomington) in their first 8 games and went 8-0.
This year, they have trips to South Bend, Columbus, and Lincoln in their first 8. I don’t care how depleted OSU is, they still have loads of talent.
11-1 is within reach, and if the depth is as good as Dantonio says it is, they could navigate through a difficult schedule and reach double digit wins in the regular season.
However, I see a 10-3 season, including a win in the Outback Bowl (Cousins in his last game as a Spartan carves up an unsuspecting SEC defense).
Losses to Nebraska, Iowa (we suck at Iowa for some reason), and Ohio State (another place where we struggle).
by Cass County Spartan on Sep 1, 2011 10:51 AM CDT reply actions
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