Delany Found Path to 2 B1G BCS Bowl Tie-Ins?
BH: Bumped, because this is another great example of how Delany is playing financial games while other conferences haven't even figured out how to open the box. If AQ status is removed for the 2014 BCS contract, expect to see a contract where B1G #2 (that's post BCS title game and post-Rose Bowl) goes to the Fiesta, Orange, Sugar, or (an increased revenue) Cotton.]
Delany supporting changes to eliminate AQ status, reduce the BCS to 1 game, pull the Rose Bowl out of the BCS, split the Rose Bowl revenue just 2 ways, and secure a conference tie-in to Fiesta, Sugar, or Orange Bowl... and his allies might be the SEC, Big 12, mid-majors, and playoff proponents!
5 months ago
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Very good points.
Love it. I absolutely agree on NCAAF Economics 101 in that, this would go back to being a system where bowls can do whatever the hell they want. It becomes less so a matter of how much money can we share so that the Big East doesn’t feel bad about itself, and more an issue of how can we maximize entertainment and profit. It also generally determines a slightly less lame system than the original bowl/MNC system because you do have a MNC game. It’s not perfect, but we would all be acknowledging it and moving on with money in the bank. Great work.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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BH – solid point on the Cotton Bowl moving up. Chik-Fil-A Bowl has been looking to move up for years as well. Either could change where I was expecting the top 3 to land.
Not certain the Darth can take credit for this… the mid-majors brought it up, Delany-Silve-Big 12 are sitting in the back row, giddy with excitement.
Boise is still lost Peterson was commenting on how good it would be – apparently nobody told him his new conference would be excluded and playoffs not part of the deal.
KennardHusker – thanks. 1 game BCS would eliminate most of the gripes, leaving only complaints about bowl tie-in system (not a BCS problem), revenue sharing (assuming the PAC, B1G, SEC, or Big 12 care), and complaints it should be a larger format.
Swafford has to be wondering “What the hell just happened?” as playing the playoff fence for headlines comes back to bite him.
Meanwhile, the Big East petitions the Catholic Church to become the Patron Saint of Frustration.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
posted these questions over on Ian's site; repost them here.
what is the voting procedure? That is, does the existing BCS expire requiring a re-vote? Or does the existing BCS go forward unless there is a unanimous vote to change it?
also, which conferences get to vote? I’m guessing the current six BSC conferences. That itself is interesting; how do the conferences themselves determine how the conference is going to vote? Do the B1G schools take a vote and 7-5 “wins” and that is how the conference votes?
anyway, would appreciate additional detail on this.
in general, what is, in your view, the likelihood of this happening?
Personally, I am all for dropping the AQ statuses and having the BCS do only the NCG. This, along with the B1G-P12 scheduling arrangement would cement, long-term, the top-tier/lower-tier CFB hierarchy.
what is the voting procedure? That is, does the existing BCS expire requiring a re-vote? Or does the existing BCS go forward unless there is a unanimous vote to change it?
also, which conferences get to vote? I’m guessing the current six BSC conferences. That itself is interesting;
Answered at ITS in detail. The BCS site doesn’t give squat for details.
how do the conferences themselves determine how the conference is going to vote? Do the B1G schools take a vote and 7-5 "wins" and that is how the conference votes?
I got nuttin here other than each conference controls its own procedure. My best guess would be the same as conference expansion – 2/3 majority?
in general, what is, in your view, the likelihood of this happening?
Extremely high. 5 mid majors for it. NCAA is probably for it (to protect mid-majors).
If revenue sharing doesn’t result in a drop for the PAC (easy with 1/2 the Rose Bowl revenue), they won’t oppose. I believe Scott is sincere when he says he really doesn’t care. Scott doesn’t want a playoff, so he won’t throw a curve.
Big 12 already announced they are for it and still oppose a playoff, so no hitches here.
Delany can’t believe it is happening, as long as it is not a playoff he is for it. At this point, I suspect his preference in order: 1 – 1 title game only BCS 2 – blow it all up and go to open market (I wouldn’t put it past him if he has the blessing of the NCAA) 3 – BCS in current format
Silve will mention playoff 10,000 times to get headlines, but he will be all for a 1 game format to get it thru.
The Big East is between a rock and a hard place – they are living on a BCS exemption now to remain AQ – they don’t have any ground to fight for… or from.
The ACC is the real opposition. They can’t push for a playoff with the PAC-B1G-Big 12 opposed, and the mid majors and SEC willing to agree to a 1 game format. I don’t see them being able to block – they can’t cry to the NCAA to maintain AQ when everyone else is in favor of the change.
The catalyst is the raiding of the mid-majors – it is the East that is raiding the mid majors, and the ACC that sent the East looking for 2 more… good luck trying to get sympathy from the NCAA now… I hope Syracuse and Pitt were worth it!
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
thanks for the reply and I checked out your reply over at Inside The Shoe
So, if I understand correctly (and to oversimplify), the BCS is a contract. 11 of 11 conferences could sign (as is the case now) or 10 of the 11 conferences could sign or 8 of 11, etc., but as the number of conferences who DON’T sign increases, the validity/usefulness of the BCS diminishes. And, some conferences (like BIG and SEC) have vastly more weight. To paraphrase your point on ITS, if the SEC says “no” that’s big news, if the Sun Belt Conference says “no” everyone laughs.
And then further, you are suggesting that, currently, 9 of 11 have come out in favor of eliminating the AQ requirement and making the BCS just about the single NCG with the Big East leaning in favor and the ACC holding out.
this is very interesting.
so a couple of more questions: why is the ACC opposed?
and, for me, the bigger question: why are the mid-majors “for”? I think the answer is: “to stop us from being raided.” But that’s a really big trade. No big-payoff-bowls in exchange for stability. It is also risky since the first part is almost guaranteed; but the second is not. Even without the AQ issue, the best of the mid-major schools are always going to be candidates for the bigger conferences if/when any of them choose to expand.
anyway, very interesting.
I’m just going to link to an older Frank the Tank post.
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
I loved the entire series of articles he quoted in his blog.
The source articles gave a clear view of the new landscape.
I disagree with his assessment the majors were covering – I believe any conference that could get 2 tie-ins to the 4 major bowls would make more, and the PAC with 1/2 the Rose Bowl revenue would be about even.
I also disagree with his belief the mid majors will oppose the change, but I would have agreed with him given what was known at the time his blog was written.
Keep in mind, it isn’t just major raiding mid major in search of AQ status – the MWC stripped the WAC in search of AQ status as well – they probably would have succeeded if TCU and BYU hadn’t left.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Are we sure that the mid-majors would be supportive of the BCS going away, but for the championship? As Frank the Tank points out, the genius of Delaney here is that now they’re arguing for the statu quo. If they get shut out of all the larger bowls (except maybe BYU and the Holiday Bowl, national championship fpr old times sake), and only have access to the #1 v. #2 game, it seems that they’re in a worse position then they are now. You’d assume that the Big 10, the Big 12, and the SEC would lock in 2 slots. Say the Big East and ACC get 1 each. That’s 8 teams for 8 slots, plus having the #1 and #2 going to the BCS game.
So you could have the #2 and # 3 teams from the 10, 12 and SEC filling their New Year’s day slots, with the #1 from 2 going to the BCS. I think from a NYD bowl’s perspective, the #3 team is still more attractive to them then [insert mid-major here] and the mid-majors know that.
The 1st step is to follow the money
The NCG has gotten a little over 30% of the total ratings.
Most revenue streams are proportional to ratings (broadcast rights, advertising, etc.)
…so a single NCG would collect a little over 30% of the total revenue.
I couldn’t find details, but from past revenue disbursements, about:
12.4% of the FBS distribution to each of the majors
3.5% to each at large
1.5% to Notre Dame
10.9% split among the mid majors
Are we sure that the mid-majors would be supportive of the BCS going away, but for the championship? As Frank the Tank points out, the genius of Delaney here is that now they’re arguing for the statu quo. If they get shut out of all the larger bowls (except maybe BYU and the Holiday Bowl, national championship fpr old times sake), and only have access to the #1 v. #2 game, it seems that they’re in a worse position then they are now.If the mid majors primary concern with the BCS is the prestige of an appearance, and the mid majors continue to get lots of BCS bids, then you would be correct.
My belief is that they will be a long, long way from an appearance after the current realignments are completed, and those appearances would be far between. They aren’t really giving up anything here.
My belief is that they are primarily concerned with revenue. As the above shows, you can continue to pay a hefty appearance fee and maintain the mid major level of shared revenue by giving the same flat amount per program to every conference.
It would suck to be the East or the ACC, but everyone else gains or stays the same, and the mid majors eliminate the differentiation and being raided to meet AQ status (including raiding each other as the MWC tried with the WAC).
You’d assume that the Big 10, the Big 12, and the SEC would lock in 2 slots.Absolutely (with Notre Dame) – follow link for discussion.
So you could have the #2 and # 3 teams from the 10, 12 and SEC filling their New Year’s day slots, with the #1 from 2 going to the BCS. I think from a NYD bowl’s perspective, the #3 team is still more attractive to them then [insert mid-major here] and the mid-majors know that.Absolutely – the mid majors bowl tie-ins are dismal because their ratings are dismal.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Almost there...
I believe 9 of 11 would favor the change. This assumes the PAC was happy with the revenue disbursement. Don’t forget Notre Dame, who I also think will be kept happy.
ACC definitely comes out on the short end. They wouldn’t get a 2nd tie-in. Without 1/2 the Rose revenue (PAC) or a 2nd tie-in (B1G, SEC, Big 12) they wouldn’t get as much revenue from the new structure.
The mid majors probably aren’t going to get many invites with the remaining teams. The invites they get will be few and far between. They aren’t giving up a whole lot. it would be a lot more valuable to keep what few names they still have, and would have been more valuable to have kept several that already left.
The best mid majors will always be candidates, but they don’t believe most would have been added to the East if not for the search for AQ status – the East probably would have followed their traditional strategy and stopped at 8 teams.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Hmm.. that raises an interesting question. Does Big East re-think its expansion if AQ statuses go away?
The Big East is really more of a BBall League with so many non-FB schools. By adding all those teams from out west, seems to be watering down the BBall “product” (which took a big hit anyway with the loss of Pitt and ’Cuse to the ACC).
Wonder if the Big East is doing any re-thinking.
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 5, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Darn good question
I don’t think roundball was really watered down – a lot of FB only additions.
At this point, I think the East is just frustrated and hoping they survive with AQ status… somehow… some way.
Without SQ status, they might still go for 12 and a CCG, or they might cut their losses. Either way they would add the academies if they could, and possibly BYU if they changed their mind.
In other words… fukifiknow
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I'm so happy that Delany is the BIG commissioner
That man makes David Stern look like a bumbling idiot…which I would have said was impossible a couple of years ago.
"My love for Jerry Kill knows no bounds." - Jeffrick
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 4, 2012 4:59 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Auto rec'd for praising our benevolent Darth.
I can honestly say the only thing I can remember that he has ever done that I didn’t like was the 9 game conference schedule… and now that is dead!
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Umm...
Divisions? Division names? Logos? Not protecting WI/IA? 347 hyphenated trophies? Wanting to move The Game earlier? Forcing B10 fans to watch Fox try to cover college football?
Point by point
Divisions: By rule they have to happen if we’re going to have a conference championship game.
Division Names: fair point, no one likes them
Logos: I happen to like the small logo. #GoB1G
Heartland Trophy: Something had to end on a yearly basis, and I have yet to see an intarwebs proposal that doesn’t fix this without harming/killing another rivalry.
threeve multi-name trophies: Good idea, horrible execution.
Moving The Game: He did manage to listen to the fans on this one.
B1G on Fox: Gus Johnson, and Fuck eSECpn.
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
response pt by pt
I meant who was in each division, not there very existence.
OK
That’s one of 4.
This isn’t my plan, but http://bydivineright.wordpress.com/2011/12/03/jim-delanys-mulligan-legends-leaders-2/
Nobody needs that many trophies, and they certainly don’t need double names. Just make a decision.
But it was his idea to discuss it before fans shouted it down.
Fox for CFB sucks. Gus is annoying. Fuck ESPN.
Fox gets it because they are our partner for the BIG TEN Network
It makes sense to maintain a strong relationship.
"My love for Jerry Kill knows no bounds." - Jeffrick
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 5, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
It doesn't make them suck any less
The BTN and FSN have better announcers and production.
I can't listen to him
It’s MUTE or change the channel. He just won’t stop yelling. About everything. All game long. Even when it isn’t exciting.
Divisions? Could make the case I preferred rotating sub-divisions.
Division names? Delany was right – they grew on me.
Logos? If you nick-picked, I would have preferred a different color, but otherwise I like it – prefer abbreviating as B1G rather than B10
WI/IA? Not my problem as long as The Game continues as the last game of the season.
347 hyphenated trophies? Calling all of them the Woody’s would have been too much to ask…
Wanting to move The Game earlier? I don’t care about passing thoughts, only what he implements.
Forcing B10 fans to watch Fox try to cover college football? I am in favor of anyone other than ESPN.
The guy manages the largest fanbase in NCAAF and a huge financial empire, and this is the gripes you come up with? You forgot to complain about his barber and choice is shoes.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
and again
I meant their make up, not their existence.
Really? Have you seen a doctor lately?
Color sucked and that was 1 of 4. Don’t forget the long versions the B10 prefers.
Fair enough.
Is it that hard to make a decision and pick one person to name it after?
OK
Fox sucks, especially for CFB. That robot is all that is wrong with the world. ESPN is pure evil, too.
SEC is bigger now if you count the bandwagon or all of TX.
You said 9 games was the only thing he’d done that you didn’t like. In 30 seconds I had a list to jog your memory.
I don’t mind the makeup either. I opposed the idea of a geographic split for 1/2 the reason I favored rotating sub-divisions – it helps keep an interest in the entire conference.
I like the long one too – I don’t like the shields, seals, etc. The logo even translates well to typing it as an abbreviation.
Good idea – they should have all been called the Woody’s.
Texas isn’t the only state the SEC splits, and it isn’t the only state within the footprint where the SEC team isn’t the favorite of the majority of the state’s fans. I believe the B1G still draws larger audiences.
…so you can develop a list of the obscure and nit-pick? The logo color? Hyphenated names on trophies you hear about once a year? A promotional robot character used by a broadcaster? Even including the obscure, there isn’t a item of note on the list, and a lot I like.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I didn't realize it was my job to find things you consider important
I didn’t want east/west either.
I don’t like the color, font, shields, divisions names or anything else about the logos. That’s the public face of the league and it sucks. They paid way too much for that amateur result.
The SEC splits lots of states, but it is dominant in all of the others including FL.
He made a deal with Fox, the absolute worst network on the face of the earth. I will never watch a CCG as long as Fox is the network. Their production sucks, their graphic suck, their announcers suck, their camera work sucks, their knowledge of CFB sucks and their cross promotion sucks. Their absolutely zero redeeming features of Fox covering CFB.
He screwed up the bowl match ups.
He screwed up the bowl TV slots having 4 at once.
He took too long to extend the season the extra week.
He lobbied the NCAA to get OSU’s players into the Sugar Bowl.
He became the face of defending the BCS.
He keeps putting the hoops tournament in Indy when it does better in Chicago.
He decided and announced the B10 will investigate and punish PSU.
He did a poor job of integrating PSU when they joined.
He hasn’t provided leadership on banning oversigning.
It isn't your job...
…you might be content with elevating the obscure.
I am not certain the S. Carolina has more than 1/2 of the states NCAAF fan base.
I don’t think UF has 1/2 of the Florida NCAAF fan base.
TA&M doesn’t come close to 1/2 of the Texas fan base.
The population shift has the B1G audience substantial outside its footprint.
Nobody cares if you don’t watch the CCG on Fox. What does matter is they ponied up the most $$$.
He secured the most lucrative bowls he could -hardly a screw up. He doesn’t set the times the bowls are broadcasted.
I don’t consider extending the season a good thing, and believe all games but CCGs should end before Thanksgiving to give the athletes the holiday with their family.
Given the information he had at the time, lobbying the NCAA was the right move for the conference.
He is about the only commissioner being straight about the playoffs – it isn’t his problem you can’t handle the truth. Hardly the defender of the BCS, he favors its reduction, and was a major obstacle to its formation.
Like the CCG, the Hoops Tourney should be in the most profitable location.
PSUs violations are not NCAA infractions. The B1G is more than an athletic cooperative – it should be concerned what happens at the administrative level.
He got PSU in the league the only way he could – it may have been blocked if knowledge went beyond the administrative level earlier.
Are you clueless – the B1G forbids over signing, has the strongest rules in NCAAF for transparency, is the only conference that limits the number of formal scholarship OFFERS that can be made, and as a result averages fewer commitments per program.
…please enter 4 tokens and try again…
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Are you "special"
or just acting like it?
SC > Clemson, UF > FSU >> Miami > everyone else – UF has at least a plurality and probably the majority, and I never claimed TAMU ran TX
I’d rather take slightly less money for a much better product than the crap that is Fox.
Setting up the B10 to lose and making fans watch 4 games at once is screwing up. And part of the contracts is when the game is played, so he signed up for that.
You are welcome to your incorrect opinion.
No, it wasn’t. He knew the players cheated and had punishment coming. They should have missed the bowl.
I prefer the old bowl system. That’s not the problem. The problem is that he made himself the face of the most hated thing in sports. That’s bad PR, and the backlash hurt the B10.
The tournament draws much better attendance in Chicago.
Are PSU’s violations B10 infractions? What rules did they break? What rules does the B10 even have? If he wants to stick his nose in, he should do it quietly until he finds a problem that isn’t criminal.
Getting them voted in is not integrating them. Once he had the vote, he still did a crap job of integrating them and PSU is still angry about it.
Leadership would be raising awareness of the issue in the NCAA, pushing for stricter rules to protect the players. instead, the b10 sat on it’s hands.
You will need to make better points than "Logo color" to be concerned with passing insults.
I’ve heard the opposite on the fan base in South Carolina.
I didn’t claim any fan base was larger/smaller in Florida, only that none had the majority of the state.
Taking less money for 1 game – you just failed NCAAF Economics 101. Your personal preferences should, and do, take a back seat to funding amateur athletics.
This is false – Delany does not define the game starting times.
As pointed out elsewhere, the bowl selection order was between even to favoring the B1G, it was the bowls and BCS selecting teams out of order which lead to the mismatches.
You consider ending the NCAAF regular season 1 week earlier to allow athletes to have Thanksgiving with family a bad thing? Good luck with that one.
So? The athletes were punished, and likely received longer suspensions with the delay. Both Delany and the NCAA determined it was better to delay.
This is false. The rantings of playoff proponents have not hurt the B1G in any measurable factor, just your feelings.
Then Chicago should ante up the money and host again.
Obviously it is within the rules and concerns, or there wouldn’t be a basis for investigating. An administration covering up for illegal activities on their campus is an ethics violation of concern to the COP/C. Whether or not it happened is still under investigation.
This remains a self-contradiction – you are upset for ethical moral reasons because they didn’t suspend athletes, now you are upset because they are investigating ethical/moral issues.
Self contradictions are common when you start with a conclusion, then look for supporting evidence. You will find it works much, much better if you base your conclusions on the evidence.
Fair enough… for a general statement. What specifically do you think he should have done differently after they joined?
So what if he doesn’t take the lead on an issue outside his area of control. Again, you might as well add he isn’t sufficiently addressing static cling and bad hair days.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
What other logos?
There is the current logo:
B1G
There is the quietly retired logo (which officially is nowhere to be found):
B1G
TEN
What two other logos are there?
The B1G logo has been a big success. I didn’t like the color at first, but it’s grown on me. And since it is often used on grass or home courts, that color is rarely used anyway.
there were 2 version of each
The small ones (the ones you see the most) and the full ones with the division names and stuff.
I am with ProveIt; Delany is a genius (not without flaws, but still a genius). Responding to your final nine (this was supposed to be a "reply"):
1. Delany go the tie-ins; matchups are the bowl committees;
2. hmmm… with so many games on tv on new year’s day, inevitable that B1G teams will play in same timeslot;
3. extra week was COP/C decision; Delany tried; lots of resistance;
4. it’s B1G’s job to lobby for its schools;
5. disagree; Delany was “face” of defending Rose Bowl and being anti-playoff; that was misinterpreted as being pro-BCS; Delany certainly not pro-BCS now;
6. got nothing on Indy vs. Chicago;
7. B1G statement re: investigating PSU was a proper response from an organization to a member institution;
8. Agreed, but he at least learned from the mistake and integrated Nebraska very well;
9. Incomplete grade since we don’t really know what, if anything, Delany is doing/had done about oversigning; IIRC, at the moment, oversigning is only a problem now at LSU and ‘Bama. that’s a lot less than a couple of years ago.
anyway, in no way is Delany without flaws; but the upsides of Delany far outweigh the downsides. Adding PSU and Neb, the BTN and the new arrangement with the Pac-12 and the impending demise of the BCS AQ statuses are all long-term really really really good things for the B1G.
I never said he was bad
I just took issue with ProveIt saying he couldn’t remember anything Delany had done anything he didn’t like other than going to 9 games. Nobody is that good.
1. I’m talking tie-ins. Or more accurately, the match up of tie-ins. There are too many high level SEC teams in FL for me.
2. They don’t all have to be 1/1 games. Nobody else does that. They could also start one at 10:00 and then 2 at 1:00 (I know the later windows are verboten). The fourth could move to 12/31.
4. The B10 says it stands for something bigger than just sports. You can’t defend playing cheaters and keep the moral high ground.
5. He very much was the face of the BCS defenders. Remember those meetings of conference commissioners last summer? Only one guy was speaking for the BCS at those while others stayed silent.
7. I’m not sure what place the B10 has investigating PSU when a criminal probe is ongoing. What rules could they have violated? What punishments can the B10 inflict? Why add to PSU’s burden when the B10 could be helping a member recover from a trying time? If there is something to investigate and punish, now is not the time. And it should never be done publicly until it is clear there is a problem. The B10 isn’t the NCAA.
9. The B10 has had these same rules for a very long time and others have been abusing the system for a long time. They’ve pushed other rules for student-athlete welfare, why not a topic that creates an unlevel playing field too? Instead, his flunky says in interviews that the B10 has chosen not to press the issue.
I agree he has done a good job overall. I’m not a fan of the P12 deal until I see some details about the football scheduling. It’s all just vague ideas right now.
Cool... more forum slots
Playing higher finishing teams in other majors is the result of signing better bowls – you can’t have both.
Delany doesn’t set the bowl starting times.
Apparently, he did defend it… successfully. This is a elf-contradiction as you complain the B1G is concerned with PSU on moral grounds, then complain the B1G didn’t take the moral ground.
This is false – the blog liked to has a reference that lists where most other commissioners absolutely body slammed the mid majors.
The B1G requested to have an observer present during inquiries – hardly a burden. The NCAA has no jurisdiction, but if the B1G is more than sports, it has a legitimate concern the administrators of a member might be covering for serious crimes on campus. It could also be a blessing – your rhetoric assumes PSU is guilty and the B1G will determine fault.
Aside from being covered above, your complaint is that he doesn’t press limitation on other conferences? Oversigning outside the B1G is an issue to be addressed by the NCAA, not the B1G. You might as well complain Delany isn’t adequately addressing global warming and the spread of WMDs.
…please enter 4 tokens and try again…
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I don’t want both. It’s called reading comprehension – you should try it.
He signed the contracts that specify the starting times. He knew exactly what he was getting.
No, I didn’t. I said the B10 shouldn’t be involved with PSU because it’s a legal issue and there are no relevant B10 rules to violate except probably some vague morals clause. He was grandstanding. The B10 says it’s above other conferences like the SEC, so it shouldn’t defend cheaters. PSU isn’t a moral issue, it’s a criminal one.
Butting in on a real investigation is a burden. If the B10’s concern is a cover up, it should wait for the police to do their job. If they aren’t satisfied after that, then they can try to ask their own questions. There is no way it can be a blessing. If they say they found nothing, it was a toothless investigation with no subpoena power and a whitewash. If they do find something, then they have to come up with a punishment for the first time ever.
Last I checked, the B10 schools are part of the NCAA. The SEC changed their rules (under pressure) and immediately went to the NCAA to get the national rules changed. That is what conferences do when they think a rule needs to be added or changed. Delany was content to sit on his high horse instead.
You should have read comments elsewhere and familiarized yourself with the topic.
It isn’t the match ups that are off, it is bowls not matching the selection order with conference finish. If the selection order matched conference finish, there wouldn’t have been mismatches.
I don’t believe the tie-in contracts with the bowls specify the starting time, but I don’t have access to the contracts to confirm this. This is not a good reason to risk cutting a revenue source for amateur athletics. it is just 1 more area Delany shouldn’t prioritize.
Obviously there are relevant B1G rules to PSU.
If the allegations are true, not reporting child molestation is a moral issue.
The B1G is not butting in nor is it a burden – they requested to have a representative present to view the evidence and hear testimony 1st hand. Performing completely separate hearings and/or a later review would be a burden.
If the B1G determines there was no illegalities, or gives details to explain how they could have inadvertently happened, it is a blessing. It is only worse if the B1G findings and/or explanation is worse than the legal findings.
Potential sanctions or a voice of exoneration waiting at the end makes the investigation far from toothless.
Being part of the NCAA does not equate to being responsible for the activities in other conferences. So what if Delany decided it wasn’t an issue for him to take to the NCAA. You might as well complain Delany isn’t doing enough for Wall Street reform. The SEC limits are show only and do nothing for the issue – the SEC needed to get ahead of the curve before the NCAA took unilateral action.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
It's amazing how much wrong you can fit into so few words
They aren’t mismatches, but very tough games. They could become easier games if the B10 let some else play SEC #2 for example.
The Rose Bowl and the late BCS game have guaranteed windows to themselves. That only leaves up to 1:00 or 1:30 for starting times anyway. He can’t be surprised that all 4 games overlap. The little bowls make a negligible amount of money for the B10 after covering costs and dividing by 12. Winning games is better PR for the conference than losing, so any minor financial difference is worth it.
If it’s so obvious, feel free to cite said rules.
It is and it is.
Only idiots could find that to be a blessing.
Nobody knows what sanctions can be levied since nobody knows what these supposed B10 rules are.
Every member of the NCAA is supposed to submit suggested rules and rule changes to the appropriate committees. It’s part of being a member, since the members are the governing body. Not doing so means Delany felt abusing players was not worthy of being against the rules, just beneath the B10. That’s crap, much like your arguments.
Feel free to keep creating those straw men though. It’s entertaining.
No, they are mismatches as used here and elsewhere.
A division 3rd vs. 2nd is a mismatch if you are using it to compare conferences or evaluate the game results. Trying to just call it a “Tough Game” doesn’t accurately characterize it – there are lots of majors a team can face that would be a ‘Tough game" but only a very few that would be even match ups. Calling it something else doesn’t change reality, it just gives it a name more pleasing to your ears.
…Sophistry will get you no where with me.
Yes, the B1G could get a better record playing cream puffs in toilet bowls
… scheduling the most lucrative bowls he can is hardly a valid criticism, but it is about all you have.
As noted here and elsewhere, your beliefs for why the teams aren’t evenly matched are completely wrong. It isn’t the selection order, it is the bowls not selecting by conference finishing order.
…A criticism based on ignorance carries no merit.
It is false that only 1:00 and 1:30 is available. They can go earlier, and have started earlier in the past.
… none of which supports your claim the bowl starting times are part of the conference tie-in contracts.
I say “Obvious” because if it didn’t represent a rule violation, they wouldn’t be investigating and noting the possibility sanctions… obviously.
…or are you so desperate for a criticism to claim they are investigating activities and threatening sanctions for activities not outside the rules?
I believe the B1G findings will either exonerate or limit the responsible parties at PSU compared to the press reports and legal findings. An added voice in support, or minimizing the infraction, when things are down is desirable and a blessing.
…not a bit of which counters your self-contradiction on the moral and ethical issues of the athletes vs. the PSU investigation – you are searching for support of a conclusion already made – if you were smart enough to catch it, you would be just as critical of Delany if he downplayed potential ethics violation of a conference member (oh wait, you did do that in the athlete gripe).
It is false to say not submitting rules changes equates to feeling the changes aren’t worthy… it just means he doesn’t consider it a priority, particularly given any changes are procedural and won’t end the practice. he has far more productive things to do than pursue meaningless NCAA rule changes. Silve on the other hand needs to present the image the SEC is doing something about the issue.
Straw men? I thought you liked the work Delany was going, or was that a facade?
Please enter 4 tokens and try again. Perhaps you would like to go back to complaining about logo colors and division names?
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
okay, i'll join in ... i'm on my lunch break
on issue 9: i repeat that I think we just don’t know what Delany has done or not done on the issue of oversigning. Public stances may or may not be productive. So just because we’ve seen/heard very little from Delany/B1G doesn’t mean that nothing has been done.
Also, focus on NCAA legislation seems misplaced. More than one way to skin a cat, etc. Maybe the NCAA level is two levels two high for this problem. That is, oversigning can be addressed school-to-school/President or AD talking to President or AD and/or at the Delany-talking-to-Slive level. Mostly we don’t care about oversigning at Troy (the worst offender) and at mid-majors and at not-traditionally-elite/good CFB programs. We care about the 6-7 schools in the SEC. As I understand it, 4-5 of those SEC schools are not oversigning anymore or it has been very much curtailed. So, we are now down to two really bad offenders (LSU and ’Bama). So, there seems to be some progress and maybe this is getting fixed via backchannels.
anyway, my point is that Delany’s role (if any) is unknown and a more public role might be/might have been counterproductive.
Welcome!
The tough part is that not all “Over signing” is necessarily bad. If an athlete signs but grey shirts because of grades or injury or personal issues to preserve eligibility, is it really bad? The NCAA actually encourages this.
If an athlete is aware he may have to wait a year before joining and volunteers to wait because he wants this specific opportunity, is it really bad? if we outlaw this, we remove opportunities and choices from the athlete – hard to claim we have his best interest in mind.
Don’t forget – there are usually an athlete or 2 that never makes it to the 1st fall practice because of grades, injuries, or personal problems – without grey shirts, this opportunity goes unfulfilled.
Most sites I perused find the practice acceptable provided:
1. There is complete transparency – potential athletes who might not be signed are identified, and all parties including other programs are made aware he might have to grey shirt because others are in front of him.
2. The athlete is given a scholarship when one becomes available – either from a recruit who never makes it to campus, an unexpected departure (like Pryor), or with the following class.
I honestly think the practice will diminish on its own. The favor now is to sign green shirts (athletes who start college in January of their SR year of High School) and grey shirts under the previous year’s class if there is room so they won’t count against the yearly 25 limit. Combine with a new limit to accepted offers and it will go against the program’s interest to over sign by more than a couple.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
agreed that OS is not always a "bad."
I would add in situations of extreme attrition. Can’t remember off hand, but in one of Minny’s recent coaching transitions, they were under the 85 limit by about 40 (or some such). Personally, I would not have objected to allowing Minny an extra 10-15 in one recruiting class (with proper limits, requests for waivers, etc., to limit abuses). I suppose maybe there could be unintended consequences, but …
Except for
the interviews from the B10 VP for something or other that say the B10’s position is to do nothing about it on the national level, we know nothing.
on issue 7: PSU and the B1G
In my view, the best model is something like the EuroZone and it’s various member countries (or maybe the IMF). The larger/parent organization has a stake in the success of each member since the success of each enhances the success of the whole, etc. If “success” is hampered by some internal flaw (e.g., bad tax rates or a weak Board of Trustees), then the larger/parent organization has a legitimate interest in reaching in to help fix the flaw. Indeed, if the “flaw” is big enough and threatens the “success” of the collective group, then the larger/parent organization will rightly insist upon reaching in to fix the flaw.
In this sense, the B1G is looking at organizational structures, hierarchies and chains of command and those are quite reasonable concerns. There may not be an organizational or structural problem, but it is certainly wise and prudent for the B1G to take a look.
Btw, based on what I read, I think the COP/C took the lead, not Delany. So, this may or may not belong on a list of Delany flaws.
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 5, 2012 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
on the Pac-12 Deal.
agree that we need details.
but not sure that I care all that much about the details.
from my view, it’s another way to cement in the first-tier status of the B1G and the other major conferences. there are now — let me severely oversimplify — 24 less games a year for the mid-majors to play which means 24 less big paychecks for them to receive which means just that much more of a financial gap between the mid-majors and the majors.
and the symbolism cannot be overlooked. B1G and P-12 are plainly stating “we stand together.” In other words, “nothing will happen that we oppose.”
by WarBuck46410 on Jan 5, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Solid points on the mid majors
I think they spent way too much time trying to fight the BCS, and not nearly enough time developing internally.
The MWC and CUSA announced some cooperation, but it was way too late.
For example, a game between the MAC and the SUN draws little interest, but a series of games on a single week end in a shoot-out format adds to the fan interest.
An example of broader cooperation would be grouping themselves as a single entity when marketing bowl tie-ins. It is hard to tell what a bowl might get from the MAC in any 1 year, but all could get a bump up in bowls if they marketed themselves to 5 bowls as selecting 1st, 2nd, etc. from 1 each from the MAC or SUN or WAC or MWC or CUSA (or a subset of these 5).
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
yep, 100% agree. Joint marketing would help, but there are schisms within the midmajors too. Don't know how you'd get there.
The MAC is a very old conference with some pretty decent history. Sun Belt somewhat the same. Both are sort of the “lite” versions of the major conference in the geographical footprint. There is a lot of pride in those conferences. Not sure how you overcome that.
Same is true for the MWC since it has been successful lately and now has some name recognition.
The WAC is really not worth discussing and C-USA is … not really on the national radar, if you know what I mean.
So, lots of divergent ideas, goals, egos, history, etc. A lot to overcome to establish some sort of joint marketing to the bowls and networks.
Your point about a “series of games” is an intriguing one, because I could see the mid-majors doing a mini-playoff/round-robin as part of a plan to market their best teams to the bowls and networks.
anyway, gotta get back to work.
Nice talking to you today.
Once did a series of blogs on things mid majors could do other than griping to the majors, but the site wiped out all old information not too long ago.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I really like the idea of opening up the bidding for the Title Game to other cities.
It’s BS that the SEC gets a virtual home game every other year in Nola or Miami, and would love to see a NC game in Chicago, Detroit, or even Indy.
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
by Spartan D on Jan 5, 2012 8:57 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
They may still end up southern heavy, but it is an easy way to boost revenue.
I don’t think there are any entities in the B1G foot print which could win a bid to host.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I think the only city w/ a chance would be Indy
It’s indoors, knows big events (Super Bowl), has a good downtown, and has a great PR team. Of course, a MNC game in Chicago would be pretty crazy. Those southern schools wouldn’t know what was going on. Snow? Nobody told me this stuff really existed!
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
That would be entertaining.
Unfortunately for cities like Indy, most of the money they put up for a bid is funded by tourism tax revenue… not much chance of getting tourism dollars from visitors to Indy in January.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
sorry, can you elaborate?
I suppose, generally, I don’t know how the process works. Your comment suggests that Indy would be paying some sort of money? maybe a guarantee of X amount of revenue to the bowl?
that sort of makes sense; and that such would be funded by tax revenue also makes sense.
your last point is one I don’t understand.
would appreciate any information.
He’s saying that Indy in January wouldn’t bring in a lot of people, since it’s…you know, cold and all. Who wants to travel to a cold place?
If your team is playing in the NCG, you go to Indy.
If your team is not playing, you don’t go. There aren’t a whole lot of “3rd party” folks rolling to Nola for title game, it’s gonna be all Bama/LSU fans (and media), same as would go to Indy.
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
right. very well articulated and I personally don't see fans deciding to "go" or "not go" based on the "other stuff" the host town has to offer. For CFB fans, it's about the team.
Seems to me the premier indoor stadiums (stadia) are SuperDome, Lucas Oil and Jerry World. If you want an outdoor stadium (not in the North), then Rose Bowl and Tempe and maybe ?? So, only about 5 options; Indy I think would have a good chance.
Miami and if San Diego or LA get a new stadium are acceptable outdoor venues.
SD is a great spot, IMO, but the stadium is a piece of shit.
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Yes...
I think Indy paid $5 Million to host the B1G CCG, though I think they kept advertising and ticket revenue.
Host cities can be a revenue source if the event is substantial enough. The city gets exposure/advertising and a boost to local businesses. The city can recover expenses in tax revenue, and can even justify a slight loss.
A city like New Orleans can really capitalize on the tourism. No city is better equipped to capitalize on tourism than Las Vegas which tries to collect the last of your pocket change just before you board the plane to leave.
Indy in January isn’t in position to capitalize on tourism, so it couldn’t offer as much to be a host.
I am not certain how the NFL works. I think cities have to pay just to bid on the Super Bowl, but might not have to ante up any more money.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I think Indy could.
As much as the city sucks balls, they actually do a good job hosting big sporting events.
And, I yearn to see the SEC fans bitch about having to suffer through some cold weather to get from their hotel to the game
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
The media is going to rip Indy a new asshole
Most reporters hate going to the combine because of the weather, forcing them to go to the Super Bowl will only make it worse. This will be the most ripped Super Bowl since Jacksonville hosted
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 5, 2012 7:56 PM CST up reply actions
But will it be any worse than the backlash from Houston?
That’s a southern city that the media said was awful and boring. I just think guys who get to go back to the big game each year are getting too spoiled.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
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