Buck Up, Big Ten!
by Bama Hawkeye on Jan 4, 2012 9:30 AM CST
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PrintDon't let the national media get you down! Remember, the B1G has gone Four and Wisconsin* in its last six BCS Bowl games. No conference has more BCS wins in the last three seasons than the B1G (and only the SEC at 4-2 can match it). One other point worth noting: in all six of those games, the Big Ten team was the lower ranked team (hence the affinity for the white jerseys - Iowa only wore black because Georgia Tech wears white at home).
* OK, in actuality, we're 3-2 with a vacated game. But still, a winning record.
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Well
BCS games certainly ain’t what they used to be.
?
What did they used to be? I remember a game that had Syracuse pitted against Kansas State. I also remember a game where Oregon State played, and Pittsburgh and UConn and Kansas. BCS has always been a bit of a joke. They seem like big games because of the timeslot and the attention paid to them. Really Michigan v. Va Tech very easily could’ve been the Capitol One game.
by RattlesnakeJim on Jan 4, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
They're surely not as prestigious as the oh-so-highly-revered Outback Bowl.
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Yawn
Give me a ring when you can even compete with an average to good SEC team. The fact that you needed an overtime and a series of lucky blunders, arm punts, and mystifying official calls to beat VT (a team that lost to Clemson by 28, the only ranked team they played this year) when they were trying as best they could to give the game away…well, that speaks volumes to where your program is now.
Next year, you’ll have to go on the road and play some games. You remember what happened when you ventured outside Ann Arbor this year, don’t you? I’ll give you a hint:
by Ozymandias on Jan 4, 2012 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is a dumb conversation
Look, I’m happier than hell that the B1G at least beat one SEC team. But let’s not get too carried away with this “I’m better than you” banter that is amped up right now in Sparty-land. First off, MSU wet the bed against Nebraska here:
Granted, Nebraska has wet the bed against pretty much everyone else including our middle-of-the-road opponent from the SEC, but that doesn’t mean that the MSU game didn’t still happen. I’m pretty sure you remember it. Do I think Nebraska is necessarily better than MSU? Nope. Do I think it’s crap that Spartan fans only argument counter to Nebraska not being better is very similar to the excuse they are angry about Michigan using against them? Yes. Yes I do. (sidenote, it’s also really dumb to keep saying, "well, well, we were tired and Nebraska caught us napping… blah blah blah. MSU came into a historic venue and played in front of a national audience and looked terrible. It happens, but don’t be like most Nebraska fans and try and logic it away. The loss happened.)
On any given day, pretty much anyone can strap on the pads and play with anyone (see Iowa-Minnesota) in this conference. That’s what I’ve learned this year. I’ve also learned that arguing one team is empirically better when there isn’t enough proof one way or another is always a road to whiny posts.
Also, MSU did win their bowl game, but let’s not pretend like Georgia didn’t do their part either. Cousins did his darndest to throw that game away in OT, and you’re fortunate Richt is the dumbest coach that is still popular (hey, why not make a FG as difficult as possible for your kicker with the lowest kicking percentage in the conference… sounds about right). The Spartans won outright, and I’m happy for them, but it wasn’t like they ‘took care of business’ and such. The national perception didn’t change, and that made the bowl record for them something like 1-5 under Dantonio? So yeah.
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by KennardHusker on Jan 4, 2012 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
FWIW
Also, I actually was happy MSU won, and I think they played to win and were rewarded with the victory. I’m just sick of seeing banter that X is better than Y. It just ends up looking like trolling. Now, if you say MSU is better than Indiana, I’m definitely going to agree.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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by KennardHusker on Jan 4, 2012 6:13 PM CST up reply actions
Ehh, Michigan State fans can get their " X > Y " in for as long as they want as far as I"m concerned.
Heaven knows that they haven’t played that card too often in any of our lifetimes.
Covering Michigan Basketball for Maize n Brew.
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I love
How Michigan fans are doing their best to obfuscate the on-field results. I have no idea what the Nebraska fan is talking about; if anything, that just proves my point further. We lost to Nebraska on the tail end of a tough stretch, the likes of which UM did not even come close to matching this year. And actually, I’ve had the pleasure of playing that silly little “we beat you, so we’re better than you” card four times in a row. As absurd as that idea is, that relative quality is best measured in a head to head game. Seriously, what are you even talking about? You’re “tired of seeing banter that X is better than Y”? MSU beat UM convincingly, and somehow having a bad game against Nebraska renders that moot? I want some of whatever you’re smoking. Yes, you beat MSU; congratulations. If you had followed that up with other victories, like MSU did after beating UM, then you’d have a stronger argument. As it is, MSU victory is the rule, and “wetting the bed” the exception. For Nebraska, it’s the opposite. That’s the difference.
Because like all good Michigan fans know, the measure of how good a team is is not on the field; it’s in mysterious algorithms and backroom deals to secure a perceived “better” bowl.
The anti-MSU program on this blog is absurd. There was one conference victory against an SEC team this year, and a pretty good one to boot. But instead of thanking MSU for the best bowl win for the conference, you’re saying “Well, they wet the bed against Nebraska this year, so they’re obviously not any good! Let’s just disregard that no one went undefeated in conference this year!”. Didn’t take care of business, my ass. 30-13 is not taking care of business. 33-30 is taking care of business. Constantly raising the bar every time MSU surpasses expectations is getting really old really fast. There’s a new Big Ten power in East Lansing. Deal with it.
You've absolutely missed the point...
No, my argument was that you’re telling Michigan fans that they are worthless even though they went 11-2 because you beat them head-to-head, but it’s okay that you’re better than Nebraska because you have the better record even though Nebraska beat you head-to-head. That’s absurd. Not only is it the pot-calling-the-kettle-black, it’s also stupid.
MSU victory is the rule? So ND, Nebraska, and Wisconsin didn’t happen? Like I said, I am extremely happy MSU got a bowl win, but a BCS win is as good if not better nationally than the Outback Bowl. I couldn’t care less that it was against a SEC team and while you like to point out how great Georgia is, you kind of gloss over that their record was 10-3, you know, worst than Va. Tech or South Carolina.
Lastly, the ‘anti-MSU’ is as much perception as it is anything else. If you wanted to make a BCS bowl, don’t run into Wisconsin’s kicker. Don’t absolutely get pantsed by Nebraska, which was an inferior team, on national television, and don’t try to write off losses on one hand and say another team can’t write off a loss in the same breath.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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by KennardHusker on Jan 4, 2012 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Not trying to write off a loss
What are you talking about? I argued that Michigan had an easy schedule; they did. They had eight home games, didn’t play Wisconsin or Penn State, and didn’t have the extra loss they would have had in the BTCG. I’m not complaining about it, I’d rather be playing for the Roses than sitting at home letting the computers back me into a “BCS” bowl. But it is what it is. Then they drew an incredibly weak opponent in that “BCS” bowl, which allowed them to perpetuate the myth that they had a good team.
I seriously don’t understand what’s difficult to understand about this. I realize you think UM is some sort of powerhouse because they embarrassed you, and you saw MSU at their worst, but you have to pay attention to other games. To be sure, I never claimed MSU was better than Nebraska, because the on-field results don’t support me. But you seem to believe that what occurs on the field matters less than some arbitrary ranking system based on money, which is absolutely mind-boggling.
You’re really hurting your credibility by pointing out Georgia’s record is worse than Virginia Tech’s. VT never beat a team in the top 25, and compiled their record in the absurdly weak ACC. Just look at how the ACC champ performed against the Big East tonight. By your logic, I could claim that a high school team that went undefeated this year would be empirically better than Alabama, because Alabama has one loss. And also, bringing up South Carolina doesn’t make much sense at all. You lost to them pretty convincingly, so whatever their record is is moot.
But by all means, keep raising the bar, and ignore the reality. I never tried to “write off” the Nebraska loss, because you can’t “write off” a head to head result. But expecting a team to go undefeated in the conference before you give them any sort of recognition is going to leave you pretty unsatisfied most years. Giving laurels to UM, when they lost their only two real road tests, and their only good win came against Nebraska at home, while all you can do is sneer at MSU and say “don’t run into the kicker”…yeah, that’s pretty anti-MSU.
Look, I was being snarky with the kicker comment
But still, you’re being super touchy on this one and you absolutely are writing off the Nebraska loss when you say things like,
“and you saw MSU at their worst”.That sounds like writing off a loss. Also things like:
and somehow having a bad game against Nebraska renders that moot? I want some of whatever you’re smoking. Yes, you beat MSU; congratulations. If you had followed that up with other victories, like MSU did after beating UM, then you’d have a stronger argument. As it is, MSU victory is the rule, and "wetting the bed" the exception. For Nebraska, it’s the opposite. That’s the difference.I am not arguing Michigan is better than Michigan State. It’s not provable. I’m arguing Michigan State isn’t necessarily better either. Yes, Michigan had the easier schedule, but they took care of business for the most part… just like Michigan State. Michigan went 10-2, beat Nebraska and ND which are teams Michigan State looked terrible against, but did lose head-to-head. Be angry, be paranoid, be whatever, and that’s what’s great about fandom. Still, you’re wrong when you say that your team is without a doubt better than Michigan. It’s very much in doubt.
Lastly, I do agree that not all records are created equal, but it’s generally what is agreed upon as a line of demarcation. Complain all you want about it, but you can only win games in front of you, right? You went all logical fallacy on me with the high school thing. In major I-A football, teams in BCS conferences are compared by records. It’s happened for a long time and will continue to happen. Yes, Georgia was a good opponent. Great. So was Va. Tech and South Carolina and Oregon and so on and so on. I only brought up records because you can’t tell me Georgia was an exponentially better team or that you dominated them. This victory was good, but not great.
For the record, I have never said Michigan was back. In fact, I agree that this game probably was meaningless in the greater scheme of things. So was the MSU win and so were most of the losses. MSU did move the needle a little nationally, but 3OT and a missed FG after the world’s worst coaching calls don’t exactly give me (or most of the world including some Spartan fans) confidence next year will be greater (also everyone is losing major pieces, esp at QB… that’s a game changer).
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
Well
I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree. A head to head win and equivalent success against a tougher schedule is compelling evidence that MSU is better than UM to me, and most rational college football fans would probably agree. Hell, you’d be hard pressed to even find a majority of reasonable UM fans that would try to claim that UM was better than MSU this year.
Additionally, I can tell you Georgia was a better team than VT because it’s fairly obvious to any impartial observer. Look at the quality of VT’s opponents, compared with an SEC schedule. Look at what just happened to Clemson, who manhandled VT. The fact is, VT never played a quality opponent this year, and when they played someone with a semblance of a pulse, they lost badly. Squeaking by a team like that is not a ringing endorsement of the quality of a football team.
My initial point was that “BCS” games are not worth as much as certain people would like to think, and after the Sugar and Orange Bowl debacles, my point still stands. It’s all about the money, not the football.
Again, I probably think MSU is better than Michigan
But this chest-beating about being elite and wonderful and all this after a very close win against the fourth or fifth best SEC team isn’t exactly fun for everyone to listen to. I want MSU to be good. It helps Nebraska and the conference. I just think this whiney type attitudes about Michigan being inferior because of a win is annoying. Don’t crash their party, enjoy your thrilling win, and hope that next year is even better. Hopefully Michigan continues to get better and you continue to own them.
Oh, and I think Georgia is probably better than Va. Tech, but h2h, I’m taking Beamer over Richt. So who knows what happens there. The point is that you and most MSU fans are using an argument that is subjective. H2H proves something, but not everything. You add in other evidence if you can and hope for the best. No matter how they ended the season, MSU has losses that are glaring and that’s what held them back from more respect.
I do respect your passion, though. It’s what makes your team take the next step. I really believe that. Keep it up for real.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
No one is beating their chest
Except for Michigan. I never said a word about MSU being elite, though I believe our defense has earned some respect. The only reason I’m up in arms about this is that MSU has to fight tooth and nail for any scrap of recognition, then gets dismissed with a haughty “don’t run into the kicker”. Meanwhile, UM gets a soft schedule, backs into a “BCS” bowl, and gets a ridiculously cupcake-y bowl opponent already carved and ready to serve – yet still requires an overtime to beat them. It’s like going through a Tough Mudder obstacle course in a race to the finish line, except one guy starts at the finish line and just has to limply flop his way across the finish line to beat you, which he barely manages to do.
I’m done arguing about the head to head thing. I think beating Michigan and having a similar record against a tougher schedule shows that we’re better, you disagree. Neither of us will budge on that point.
And holy cow, you’d take Beamer over Richt? Did you watch that Sugar Bowl? I won’t even begin to debate this here, but everyone I know was absolutely shocked at how Beamer gave that game away. As for the “glaring losses” bit, I have nothing to say. The losses we have are no more glaring than Iowa-MSU for Michigan, and we have better wins to go along with it. I’m tired of debating this. People will always find a reason to withhold respect from MSU. First it’s “you can’t make a bowl game”. Then it’s “you can’t compete in the Big Ten”. Then it’s “you can’t win a bowl game”. Now it’s become “we won’t respect you because you lost a game”. The conditions for MSU to be recognized as legitimate will eventually become insurmountable for any program. So it goes.
That’s just the way it is right now. People don’t want MSU to be a Big Ten power. Your reaction to my suggestion that UM’s victory was less than stellar proves that, as was your incredulity that I dared suggest that MSU was better than UM, for reasons that are well documented. That’s why we’re trying to change the status quo, and we don’t mind stepping on a few bluebloods’ toes to do it. That’s all. I’m out.
Huh?
That’s just the way it is right now. People don’t want MSU to be a Big Ten power.
People (outside of some MI fans) don’t give a rat’s ass if MSU becomes a B10 power or not. Most people do expect a team to actually win the conference at some point before claiming to be a conference power, though.
Having back to back 11 win seasons is a good start. Sharing the conference title and then making the CCG is a good start. Winning a bowl for the first time since 2001 is a good start.
WI got to where they are with back to back Rose Bowl wins under Alvarez, then back to back Cap 1 wins under Bielema, with back to back Rose Bowls now. They have 5 10+ win seasons in the past 7 years. MSU has 1 bowl win (equivalent to a Cap 1), and 2 10+ win seasons. Keep it up for the next few years and you’ll get the same respect as WI. For now, MSU has equivalent results to IA a few years ago and gets that level of respect.
by br27 on Jan 5, 2012 3:24 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
So, so rec'd for this
Most people do expect a team to actually win the conference at some point before claiming to be a conference power, though.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Er...
We won the conference last year, and were a dubious penalty away from doing it again this year. This goes back to the “rising standards” thing. Nothing MSU does will be enough to satisfy the critics. Just look at this year. The fact that we lost a game is conclusive evidence that we are not actually a good team. Meanwhile, Michigan yakety saxxes their way through a generous schedule and is feted for being “back”, all for third place in the Big Ten.
It's not "the critics"
you have to worry about. Pretty much everyone up and down this thread is saying that MSU has been very good, bordering on elite the past two seasons. Just that truly elite status requires some staying power. You’re the only one obsessed with this non-existent lack of respect.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Let everyone else talk the talk
If MSU gets another 10+ win season next year, they’ll be walking the walk.
Just be happy we got 10+ win seasons back-to-back, and won against a stellar SEC team in a big bowl.
I know we're good with each other
…so let me throw this at you… Say Sparty does get that 10 win season, but lose to Michigan in Ann Arbor. And say UM has a 9-3 record. What then?
Well, then of course
overall record will matter more. Duh!
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Btw
I found this strewn under your desk. You should be more careful with your memorabilia.
by SpartyFever on Jan 5, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would say it's a good season
But missing an additional benefit
As I’ve stated in previous posts, most MSU fans feel that beating UM isn’t the highlight of the season anymore. We’ve accomplished so much more in the past 3 seasons. Beating UM now is just an added bonus
TL;DR
We have higher goals now. Not discrediting UM, but I think the focus of MSU is no longer about beating UM, and more about becoming a power of our own
And that's probably healthier
and a loftier goal for MSU to be aiming for. I think you may want to send Ozy another copy of the memo, however, as he seems to be missing the point.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
What?
All of my arguing done thus far has been in favor of MSU becoming a Big Ten power. Have you actually read any of my posts? The Husker guy just barged in and tried to claim that UM was better than MSU, regardless of head to head results or overall records. Obviously I’m going to debate that.
I don't know who you're responding to
So I’m just going to respond.
You say that MSU is better than UM. In my opinion, after watching both teams play every game this season, I feel MSU is the better team. HOWEVER, what Kennard is saying is that you can’t use just H2H or records as the ‘better team’. Because, what is a better team? You say MSU beat UM but lost to UN-L and ND. Yet, UM beat both UN-L and ND but lost to Iowa (who MSU won). He’s arguing the transitive property, and that you cannot definitely say one team is better than the other. You can have your opinion, sure. But it cannot be proven.
Math is fun
UM>ND>MSU>UM>Nebraska>MSU>Iowa>UM
See, that clears everything up!
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Ok then
My opinion is that Minnesota is better than Michigan. Minnesota beat Iowa, who beat Michigan. Minnesota also played MSU tougher than UM did. You can make an argument otherwise, but you cannot prove me wrong.
Thanks SpartyFever.
Also, it’s not just the transitive property. As I understand it at this point, Ozymandias argument is as follows:
MSU is awesome because they beat Michigan and have a 11-3 record, and Michigan sucks because they lost to MSU and their 11-2 record is tainted by an inferior schedule.
MSU is awesome in spite of losing to Nebraska, but it doesn’t matter because even though Nebraska had an equally tough schedule, but ended with a 9-4 record thus record is rendered moot.
That’s the argument, right? If so, it seems like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. I really don’t think Michigan is necessarily better, but MSU isn’t the bee’s knees either. Good season everyone. Correct my perception of your logic otherwise.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
Haha
Good season everyone. Correct my perception of your logic otherwise.
If that’s not a ’we’re done here’ statement, I don’t know what is. Kudos
Nowhere did I mention
MSU’s "awesome"ness. You tried to make the argument that Michigan was better than MSU. I debunked it. You countered by saying that Nebraska beat MSU, therefore rendering everything else moot. I then concluded by using your logic to say that Minnesota was better than Michigan*. Minnesota beat Iowa, who beat Michigan. Nothing else matters, right?
*56-0 notwithstanding
See, I guess that's where I think you're arguing a different fight
I have not said Michigan is better than MSU. I’ve just said stop trying to say either is better. You both had good seasons with fun endings. It was awesome. Fine. My issue is not the transitive property at all. It’s that you are saying Michigan’s record is meaningless because you beat them, but in other cases (i.e. Nebraska) record means everything in spite of a loss.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t think I said any of those things. I argued Michigan’s record is not as impressive as people think because it came against easier competition. We also happened to beat them. I never even brought up Nebraska at all; you’re the one who keeps trying to shoehorn your Huskers into the argument.
Really?
Here are your exact words:
I’m done arguing about the head to head thing. I think beating Michigan and having a similar record against a tougher schedule shows that we’re better, you disagree. Neither of us will budge on that point.
You say that having a similar record against a tougher schedule shows that you are better. Fine, I get that. I just brought up that Nebraska could turn around and say the same damn thing, then. Similar record with a h2h win. That’s what you won’t accept. It’s the same argument, but it seems so much more audacious because your team is on the losing end. Again, I think you’re right. MSU is probably better, but it’s not as cut and dry as you’re making it.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
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by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
Obviously
It would be difficult to make the case that MSU is better than UM, since they lost to them on the field. Though I have no doubt you would have no trouble shifting your stance on this to agree with my current argument if the positions were reversed. UM fandom is like that.
As far as I'm concerned, MSU has an outright B1G title from last season.
OSU’s shared piece was vacated and we beat Wisky head to head.
Official records be damned, the 2010 B1G title belongs to MSU
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Now if you could just get the NCAA to vacate your losses...
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Even in that scenario
you wouldn’t have an outright B1G title. You’d be co-champions. MSU would have, however, gotten the automatic Rose Bowl bid
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Hey, bro could you turn down that logic?
We’ve got people trying to be MSU apologists in here.
Those that complain that Inception was confusing have never seen Videodrome.
I don't think so
A head to head win and equivalent success against a tougher schedule is compelling evidence that MSU is better than UM to me, and most rational college football fans would probably agree.
MSU’s schedule was harder because they hosted WI while MI missed them, granted. Nobody disputes that. MSU beat MI and nobody disputes that.
MSU and MI had 6 common opponents. MI went 5-1 and MSU went 4-2. Both teams only lost road games, including MI at MSU. There was a huge scoring differential against ND (+ 22 for MI), IA (24 for MSU) and NE (49 MI), the three common opponents to beat either MI or MSU.
As neither a fan of MI nor MSU, I don’t see compelling evidence for either team being better than the other. Both were inconsistent. MSU accomplished more than MI in the regular season by beating WI once and taking them to OT in the CCG. MI looked terrible in winning a more prominent bowl game while MSU only looked terrible for about half of their lesser bowl against a slightly better team (UGA didn’t beat anybody either).
Based on the evidence, I think the two teams were about equal but MSU has bragging rights again, and that’s what should matter to MSU fans.
Personally
I find it a bit amusing that MSU beat Michigan, but Michigan beat both teams MSU lost to (in the regular season), but MSU beat the team that beat Michigan (Iowa). If there ever was one year where the transitive property completely breaks down, this was it.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Quick questions
I argued that Michigan had an easy schedule; they did. They had eight home games, didn’t play Wisconsin or Penn State, and didn’t have the extra loss they would have had in the BTCG.
Why does the location of the ND game matter so much to you? It’s not like ND was particularly good this year. I’m not saying that to poke at MSU’s loss, but I really don’t see why where you play an 8-4 team is important for top 15 teams. They should win home or away. Or is your theory that location is so important it explains the losses at ND and at NE while MI beat both at home? If so, why wouldn’t it explain MI losing at MSU?
I totally agree that missing WI was a boon to MI, and that makes MSU’s B10 schedule harder, I just quoted the whole sentence to keep the context.
Well.
Considering Michigan required a fourth quarter miracle to come back against Notre Dame in their home stadium at night, I’d say location is pretty pertinent. The Irish dominated Michigan for most of that game, yet inexplicably decided to not play defense for the last 10 minutes of the fourth quarter. If you think the result would have been the same at ND, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you. The fact is, UM did not win a real road game this year. They were dominated by MSU, and even lost to Iowa at Kinnick; coincidentally, this was the only game that MSU and UM played in the same location against the same team, making it an excellent barometer for both teams. The rest of their semi-difficult games were at home.
Add to that the fact that MSU played Wisconsin twice (winning once, should have been twice), Michigan never did, and you have pretty compelling evidence that MSU played a more difficult Big Ten schedule.
Um
the cognitive dissonance needed by an MSU fan to write this statement is amazing
Considering Michigan required a fourth quarter miracle to come back against Notre Dame in their home stadium at night, I’d say location is pretty pertinent.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
What?
Why? Because of last year’s overtime win against ND at Spartan Stadium? I never said that result would have been the same in South Bend, either. We would have more than likely lost last year’s game if it were played at Notre Dame. That’s the way college football works. Not sure how this is pertinent to the argument.
Cognitive dissonance, indeed. Once again, you ignore the main thrust of the argument, and focus on one small sound byte you think you have a clever response for.
This year's MSU win over Wisconsin, moron
you really are dense.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Ok...
And again, I never claimed the result would have been the same in Madison. Even though, on a neutral field, the two teams were fairly evenly matched, I definitely think that MSU would have lost had they played at Wisconsin. I don’t think this supports your argument that playing at home is no advantage, standard Michigan name calling aside.
Again, no
You’re arguing that Michigan isn’t very good because one of their wins required a semi-miraculous 4th QTR comeback and last-second score at home (against a team MSU lost to, but that’s neither here nor there). All the while ignoring how your team’s best win required the exact same set of circumstances.
Home field is important. But you seem to think it bears out for others and has no influence on your own teams’ wins.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
No...
You have next to no reading comprehension at all. For one thing, the team’s best win (against a team Michigan didn’t play at all, but that’s neither here nor there) was indeed at home, and was thus influenced by the home field advantage. If Michigan went into Madison this year and beat Wisconsin, I couldn’t really argue that both the wins were worth just as much.
I have never once said, suggested, or implied that home field has no influence on MSU’s wins. If anything, bringing up MSU-Wisconsin only reinforces my point about the advantages of playing at home. Michigan had eight home games this year. All they had to do was win their home games, and they didn’t have to win against a decent team on the road to get to a “BCS” bowl.
Considering
That UM fans were dancing in the streets over barely beating OSU at home, I’d say a win in Columbus was a good one. Winning at Iowa in such commanding fashion was pretty impressive, especially a week after UM wet the bed there. And of course, beating an SEC team in the South is always a good win.
However, you are once again missing the point. The point is, that MSU had to play those road games, and win at least a couple in order to have the season they did. UM could mail it in in both their road tests, and still make a “BCS” bowl. For example, next year we get to see how UM does against Nebraska and OSU on the road; that will surely be interesting.
I tried to get a feel for the depth of the hatred UM felt for OSU by visiting mgoblog, but I couldn’t find anything among all the MSU threads. And I surely must have missed all the anti-OSU signs at the Sugar Bowl. I guess I’ll just have to live with not “getting” such a huge rivalry.
More evidence
that many Sparty fans really really really want this to be a bigger rivalry than it is. Mgoblog does no such thing…or at least, not to the extent you seem to think.
Do me a favor
Go to mgoblog and count the number of MSU-related threads during the past four months. Then compare to the number of OSU threads.
When Mitch McGary commits to UM, do UM fans go over to Buckeye forums and talk smack about Thad Matta? No, they immediately begin to chirp about Tom Izzo. When Stonum gets in trouble again, do they start to mention Jim Tressel? No, they grumble about Dantonio.
Deny it all you want. You care far more about your “non-rival” than about the artificially manufactured intensity of “The Game”.
I'm constantly
on mgoblog and they do not go on about msu as much as you think. There may be mentions on certain stories, but there are not dedicated posts about msu…except when the school/team make the news or during msu week.
I dunno man
I live in the metro Detroit area, and you can’t go outside the door without stepping in UM vomit. This past season, and even after MSU beat UM, I’m pretty sure a day didn’t go by where coworkers assured me that UM will be back to making MSU their ‘little brothers’ very soon.
Another example. I went to the mall to buy an engagement present for my friend. He graduated from MSU, and she graduated from UM. So I was going to buy them one of those “House Divided” blankets. Walked into M-Den, asked if they had it, and was basically told they would never carry anything that low profile and how embarrassing it would be.
So I wittingly responded “That’s what I’d expect out of a UM store”
It’s a dog-eat-dog world
I used to live in Detroit
and I will have to say that the area is definitely biased towards UM, I think due to proximity, among other reasons. The history of the rivalry is probably another reason, with UM winning more games…that takes a long time to reverse. So, after 4 yrs in a row, many msu faithful think that is reason to overcome such a long history…its too hard. Too much history.
For the record, I would think that an MSU/UM house divided blanket is more necessary than an OSU/UM blanket, just due to the way things work out. That’s just me…
Ah, there's the history argument!
Any debate about the current state of college football with a UM fan invariably takes you on a historical journey back to 1903. The British Empire and France appear to be on the verge of war, Britain and Germany are beginning to discuss a potential alliance, and Michigan is nationally relevant.
I wasn't
hanging my hat on it, I was using it as a background to why it is the way it is….get over yourself, man. Lighten up, Francis.
Disclaimer
I’m not saying all UM fans are like this. But in my area, where there are a LOT of bandwagon Wolverines. It just gets very tiring.
OMGosh absolutely not
They’re just as bad as bandwagon UM fans
Iowa, OSU, Northwestern....all bowl teams.
Great teams? no.
Decent? Arguably yes.
Better than UM’s road wins? Definitely.
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Oh, you mean that game MSU never trailed after the middle of the 2nd quarter?
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Goodness, you're claiming that there's an anti-MSU program on this blog?
The MSU trolls are doing their damnedest to try to make the comments unreadable. You guys have a very good — almost great, elite, whatever — program, I have no problem saying that. Your complex and perceived persecution gets really old, really fast.
Covering Michigan Basketball for Maize n Brew.
Twitter
Most MSU fans I've met...
Have a huge chip on their shoulder about feeling disrespected in the B1G. Most also agree it’s probably because they think everyone loves scUM too much and won’t give them the same kind of respect.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
I thought
this site was above that type of name calling…
I guess I’ll have to go back to calling you all “suckeyes”
I wasn't aware...
That on these boards, Buckeyes and Wolverines were suddenly friends. I’m willing to reciprocate the civility, but I’ve seen “luckeye” thrown around, so I figured it was fair game.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Never suggested
we should be friends, and I’ve fielded plenty of insults, but the name calling is just….juvenile. There’s plenty of other creative ways and methods that take a bit more brain power to just simply throw in ‘scUM’ into your vernacular. I don’t name call, but I will insult the hell out of you.
Clear?
Is tSUN acceptable?
…all insults on open forums should be traditional and/or new and witty (tSUN, little bother, squawkeyes, jNW, Sparty NO, my favorite – Okie Lite for Oklahoma State, etc.), otherwise it isn’t entertaining and becomes obvious you have nothing else to add.
Speaking of nothing to add… PSU might be announcing a new coach… that search only took 8 weeks 1-1/2 days!
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Fair Enough
Though I don’t see how scU* is any less classic than TSUN. I’ll revert to that, though, since I’ve only recently crawled out of the ATO underbrush where I’ve rarely seen “Michigan” being used. Also, my college roommate and I (also huge UM fan) repeatedly ribbed each other with friendly jabs of “F*ckeyes” and “Muck Fichigan”—these are all terms we grew up with being kicked around the house.
And I tip my hat to you on the invitation for creative insults. I’ve held my own with the best, and look forward to the smorgasbord of cerebral sucker-punches future debates may hold.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Gotcha
but to me, scU* is a personal attack. I don’t like it. I don’t approve of it. It goes beyond football or traditional school hate. It just takes things too far. TSUN is fine because it is a failure to recognize the name of the school. I’m cool with that. Same with Hoke’s reference to “Ohio” instead of OSU.
I'm with you on this.
scU* is a stupid insult, as is AAJC. How about “West Ypsilanti Hippie Commune?”
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Did you just become a Buckeye fan yesterday?
tSUN lies at the heart of the rivalry and is rooted in its most storied days. It heralds back to a coach who instituted the practice schedule of “Mondays are for Michigan” for the entire season… days where Buckeyes were not allowed to wear blue or yellow shirts, suits, ties, accessories, etc. It recants a time when the coach told the press he went for 2 because he couldn’t go for 3.
…and yet, he would have a player running wind sprints for days for disrespecting an opponent with the name “scUM.”
“scUM” says “I got nuttin else to add.”
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
No, I was born one 25 years ago.
And don’t tell me about Woody Hayes and what he may have done. The man hated everything Michigan so much that he’d preferred to have had his driver push the car over the state line rather than leave a penny for the economy of that state up north. I believe the quote was: “Stop for gas?! We’ll push the damn car all the way to the Ohio state line before I contribute one penny to any business in the state of Michigan!” It wasn’t just a rivalry, it was bigger than that. The Ohio-Michigan rivalry transcends the school programs: Even before Michigan was a state, the two were feuding—from 1787 until the Toledo War of 1835, things almost came to rifle shots. Wind sprints? I don’t know about that.
GoWings, I apologize if scU* was hurtful. I certainly didn’t see it that way, since I’d been (lazily) using it since I don’t type UM or Michigan and hope you didn’t take it personally. TSUN it is :)
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
In retrospec
It’s good that Ohio got Toledo and the surrounding area. Because, let’s be honest…if it weren’t for Cedar Point, there would be no reason to go to Ohio.
Best of all...
…they stopped short of getting Detroit.
You did get the UP which has… which has… what the frack is on the UP?
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I have no idea
It’s like a whole new species of human up there…
…
…they must have migrated from Wisconsin
So you are saying...
…it isn’t much different from Detroit.
I just assumed the Canadians took over the UP and nobody noticed.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I love how
people start their posts with the words, “I love how….”
Honestly dude, your argument deserves to be back on the four-letter network site. Go back there and bitch….
Might be a minority here, but I agree
As a State student I am thrilled with our win but don’t feel the need to discredit their victory. Comparing the two bowls is foolish and trying to say one victory was better than the other just comes across as petty. Sure, during the game I was rooting for Va. Tech but Michigan won and kudos to them. Now lets just start looking ahead to next year.
Not trying to discredit
But watching them try and claim that “Michigan is back” after barely beating the ACC runner up (look at how the ACC champ did tonight) is nauseating. I’m not “discrediting” their win; I’m saying there really isn’t much credit to be given. Virginia Tech was not a good football team. Sorry, but they just weren’t. Even though – by the Nebraska fan’s logic – there’s no way of proving that, just as there’s no way of proving my old high school’s JV team is not empirically better than Alabama this year.
Here's a question:
Who has Georgia beaten this year? I’mma hang up and lissen.
Covering Michigan Basketball for Maize n Brew.
Twitter
by Alex Cook on Jan 4, 2012 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ok, I'll play
Ole Miss, Mississippi State (I’m sure you remember Mississippi State), Tennessee, Vandy, Florida, Auburn, Georgia Tech. That Auburn game was a 45-7 shellacking, too. Winning 10 games in the SEC is a good year, period.
Now, let’s turn the tables. Who has Virginia Tech beaten this year, since we already know they were blown out by powerhouse Clemson (who just got demolished by the Big East)?
Come on...
Ole Miss was 2-10 this season, Mississippi State was 7-6, Tennessee was 5-7, Vandy was 6-6, and Florida was 6-6. They avoided LSU, Alabama, and Arkansas until the SECCG when they got shellacked by LSU.
Now yes, Virginia Tech is even worse, but you’re not even trying anymore. Georgia’s record was pretty pitiful and they are as lucky as Michigan in scheduling (see what I did there? I made an equal opportunity swipe for you. We don’t hate all things Sparty here.)
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 12:24 AM CST up reply actions
*not record, schedule... sorry.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
Err...
10 wins is “pretty pitiful”? Why are Georgia’s wins over .500 opponents “pitiful” but Michigan’s are evidence that their defense is unstoppable, that their program is back on track, and that their loss against MSU was just a fluke? You can’t have it both ways.
Besides, Georgia was leading LSU up until the third quarter, when everything started to go wrong for them. And indeed, by your logic, I can claim the SEC Championship was a fluke, and that there’s no real evidence LSU is better than Georgia. After all, head to head results matter just as much as the level of competition; that is to say, not at all. Right?
Hey, I corrected it. I meant schedule, not record :D
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
Also, I said H2H matters as much as you want it to
Remember, I was pointing out it matters but it also doesn’t. If it’s all about H2H, Nebraska and ND are better than MSU. That’s the crux of my annoyance. You can’t have it both ways.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 12:42 AM CST up reply actions
Aaaand we're back
Leading someone until the 3rd Quarter is meaningless… trust me. Nebraska was ‘leading South Carolina’ for a lot of their game and then got crushed in the fourth quarter. I was just pointing out that you are proclaiming Georgia’s FAR SUPERIOR schedule by pointing out teams like Ole Miss… you know, the team that fired their coach because they went winless in conference play. It was an indictment on your myopic view of things. Believe me when I say that I am only arguing because your tunnelvision for MSU is blinding you to the fact that you are literally saying an argument shouldn’t count (better record outside of H2H) unless that argument pertains to you (H2H is all that matters otherwise).
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
Ok...
So I mentioned Ole Miss, sorry, my mistake. Everyone is jumping all over that and ignoring the rest of the argument., which I believe is very valid. You can’t just pick out one small part and ignore the rest. Georgia played better teams than VT did. That’s a fact.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. We have the head to head win over Michigan and the same record over a more difficult schedule. You insist that this is not enough evidence that we are better than Michigan. I counter by saying that by your logic, you could never say that any team is better than another team in all of FBS football. Your argument makes zero sense. I could claim Ole Miss is better than LSU, because regardless of their records and head to head results, I just think they look better.
Jesus Fucking Christ, you sound like my wife…just because something doesn’t make sense to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense.
Stand up when you pee, already.
Alright
Everyone needs to just walk away for a while.
by SpartyFever on Jan 5, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Standard Michigan response
When logic starts to become too inconvenient, resort to name calling. I’m surprised you haven’t brought up your 1903 national championship to support your point yet.
What part of head to head victory and the same record over better competition leaves doubt as to who is the better team? The Michigan delusion is strong as ever.
Name calling?
OH, yeah I compared you to my wife. So, yeah … I called you a woman.
Sorry if that hurt your feelings.
Internet anonymity
Is getting way out of hand in this thread
Easy for you to say, SpartyFever
if that even is your real name!
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Jan 5, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I stopped reading after Ole Miss.
Covering Michigan Basketball for Maize n Brew.
Twitter
by Alex Cook on Jan 5, 2012 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Can you say that with a straight face?
I’m not "discrediting" their win; I’m saying there really isn’t much credit to be given.
That’s the definition of discrediting their win.
by br27 on Jan 5, 2012 3:27 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm with this post
I was rooting for UM the entire game, or at least until I saw the sign mocking MSU. Then I got a bit heated because I put rivalry aside, yet our team got mocked on the national stage. Then I switched allegiances.
Regardless, UM won and I don’t mind at all. My only issue, is whether I’m gearing to hear "HOKESUGARBOWLWE"REMICHIGANWE’REMICHIGANRABBLERABBLE" for the next 10+ months.
If anything is getting old, that is.
by SpartyFever on Jan 4, 2012 11:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Which sign? This sign?
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
by Spartan D on Jan 5, 2012 8:47 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm not pro-Michigan
I hope that if there is something out there that matters, it’s that I really don’t like Michigan either. I’m definitely an equal-opportunity hater when it comes to traditional powers (OSU, Michigan, Texas, ND, FSU… etc.) and none of my posts have anything to do with me wanting Michigan to be good. For all I care, they will go winless the rest of their existence so we can post fun pictures about 1-AA schools. I just was trying to point out an argument that didn’t make sense to me. Congratulations on beating an SEC team. Seriously. No one else did, and only 3 other teams even won bowls… so there’s that. It was a day-salvaging win and necessary. Enjoy the offseason (basketball… something I wish Nebraska fans could enjoy).
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 8:51 AM CST up reply actions
Oklahoma State is not a traditional power, Kennard
I’m definitely an equal-opportunity hater when it comes to traditional powers (OSU, Michigan, Texas, ND, FSU… etc.)
Now that you’re in the B1G, we expect you to get right in the head.
by NC_Buckeye on Jan 5, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Fine. tOSU...
/mumbles incoherently about tOSU
//remembers a certain game in Lincoln…
///smiles
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
2 instant Rec'd
1 for insisting of the use of “tOSU”
1 for honoring the request.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I'll also accept fOSU
As that denotes Buckeye pwnitude of the commentor’s team and makes me smile. lol
Well, Okie State does have 1 more BCS win than the Buckeyes this decade.
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
that they were handed to on a silver platter
Courtesy of two missed FGs in a row by a superior Stanford team.
And I do suppose that’s 1 more BCS game this decade than Sparty’s even sniffed :)
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
I believe this to be false...
…Sparty was allowed to sniff last year… then had it yanked away.
…Sparty was allowed to sniff this year… then had it yanked away.
Maybe they should broaden it to New Years day and hope for the best.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Better resolved by the players on the field (even a kicker)...
…than by the suits at the NCAA Enforcement Committee
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Get back to me in 2020
About Okie State vs Ohio State BCS metrics for this decade. I’m pretty sure we’ll come out ahead.
I'm not saying you were
I was actually agreeing with the post from McSparty, not from Ozymandias. We’re on the same side!
Oh, see... I get confused as to where replies are coming from.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
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Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
I had to admit...
That sign that was kind of a dirtbag move. No wonder nobody in the B1G likes scUM :)
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Dantonio did his best to throw that game as well.
If he had just taken the two extra points instead of trying for 2 2-point conversions that failed, that game doesn’t go to overtime.
Watching the Cubs piss it away for 31 years.
by CarolinaHawk on Jan 4, 2012 9:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hindsight is 20/20
How are you supposed to know to kick it? At the time, it seemed like the logical choice.
So all that you needed was said right here.
This is a dumb conversation.
Ugh, this again.
by MNWildcat on Jan 5, 2012 12:33 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Touche...
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by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Class lessons in sophistry
* OK, in actuality, we’re 3-2 with a vacated game. But still, a winning record.
Sophistry 101 “The rest of the nation has lost in 4 of their last 6 BCS games against the B1G!” – bit wordy
Sophistry 201 “The majors have lost 4 of their last 5 BCS games against the B1G!” – nice sound bite
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Though still a loss...
I thought Wisky represented the conference well in the Rose Bowl against an excellent Ducks outfit. Sucked (at least for me) that they didn’t win but they definitely stood toe-to-toe with a Top-5 team and had a legitimate chance to win. I understand the collective B1G grief for last year’s TCU game and think it is deserved but I don’t think our B1G brethren should get down on Bucky for Monday’s performance. Especially after watching last night’s “BCS” game.
For once
I’m inclined to agree with a Wisconsin fan – for the most part. Bucky obviously played Oregon pretty well, and showed they deserved to be there. But close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, and at the end of the day, a loss is a loss.
I do agree though, after that abomination of a “BCS” game last night, I’m fairly disillusioned with the whole system.
Thanks.
I understand B1G folks are disappointed to see losses in the Granddaddy and not claiming some sort of moral victory. I also understand it must particularly irritate Sparty fans to see Wisky lose the last two years when in fairness given the seasons you had the past two years you deserved at least one shot at a BCS game.
But I think its kind of lame for the OP to say “4 and Wisconsin.” The implication being that Bucky has some abhorrent bowl record who has repeatedly shit the bed on behalf of the conference. After all, even after losing Monday Bucky is still 3-2 in modern day Rose Bowls and 10-7 in bowls overall since 1994. On Monday, even in defeat, I was proud to be a Badger fan because of the way UW played and they have generally represented the conference well during bowl season (at least relative to other B1G teams).
I think Wisconsin should have won last year and this year
because they were the better team in both games. Oregon is not a very accomplished team when they play talented squads outside the Pac 10/12. In the last three years they have beaten Tennessee and Purdue (barely, just barely and at home) outside the conference (well, and Wisconsin) and I do not include the sacrificial lambs in that total, and they’ve lost to Auburn, Boise, LSU and Ohio State. That’s stiff competition but telling in that Oregon is very soft on the inside. This year’s Rose Bowl was the sort of game that BB needed to win to show he could coach up the boys for a big stage win.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Disagree
I don’t agree that Oregon isn’t a very accomplished team. It seems that when teams are given time to prepare for Oregon, the fast-paced offense can be consistently shut down.
Unfortunately for Wisconsin, their defense isn’t in the same league as LSU’s, Auburn’s, and Ohio State’s (in their respective years).
If you were to stick Oregon in the SEC or Big Ten, where prep time is much shorter, I think you’d see similar results to PAC 12 matchups (not necessarily in point disparities, but perhaps in W/L)
To replicate Stoops’ theme from a day or 2 ago, IMO Wisconsin got beat by Oregon (and TCU), in large part, due to mediocre or worse coaching. No, Bielema didn’t make Abradeziaiaia’s fumble not go out of bounds, but Wisconsin was better than both these teams the last 2 years. I don’t think Alvarez loses to either of these guys.
by txhawkeye on Jan 4, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wisconsin
The team that time forgot, or the team that forgot time? Did you see the bball last night? :)
I don't htink you can make a case that WI is better than Oregon.
Wisky’s D was run out of the stadium Oregon’s at least put up a fight.
https://twitter.com/#!/SpartanKC
Now, now
According to the Husker fan, you can make the case that anyone in FBS is better than anyone else in FBS.
Wisconsin should've beat the hell out of TCU
the advantage you had running the ball was seen by everyone but the guy that was calling the plays, unfortunately. I didn’t expect Wisky to beat Oregon, truth be told, but you had a legitimate chance to.
So take no shame in losing to Oregon, because they are a hell of a team, but I will go to my grave believing you did, in fact, shit the bed against TCU.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
Well you’re wrong, that was an excellent TCU team that would’ve beaten any other team in the BCS by a much more decisive score than 21-19. Wisconsin’s sheer size was a rough matchup, but the frogs speed proved superior and were eventually able to funnel all the runs inside where we had run support. If Wisky had run for two instead of thrown for it, Tank would’ve stuffed ball on his run blitz anyway.
http://www.frogsowar.com/
Oh come on
What’s with all this “the other team was too good” bullshit? You’re in the BCS, you’re supposed to be good, too!
by lonewolf371 on Jan 4, 2012 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
'Beaten any other team in the BCS?'
Sorry, but no way. They wouldn’t have beaten Ohio State, Arkansas, or Alabama. TCU was a good team, I’ll even say a very good to great team, but they wouldn’t have run the table on the other BCS teams.
GRanted, OSU’s victory over TCU would’ve been vacated, but I don’t think that TCU was a better team than OSU. I don’t think they were a better team than Wisconsin, truth be told, but Patterson outcoached Bielema/Chryst and got a well deserved win. Patterson is a great coach, but I don’t think he outcoaches Tressel, Petrino, or Saban.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
The offenses of Auburn, Oregon and Arkansas all play into the strengths of the TCU defense- the speed and talent all around is perfect for shutting down the spread and varied passing attacks- we’re the only team to ever hold Mike Leach’s Tech teams out of the end zone. Additionally, I think you may be giving Tressel a bit too much posthumous credit, he was a fine recruiter and was willing to adapt his offense to the talent he had, but I remember so many infuriatingly conservative gameplans in big games, and I think that TCU had the defense to bottle up the OSU running game and force Pryor to throw into our excellent secondary- which is pretty much the way we thumped Adrian Peterson’s Oklahoma team @ Oklahoma.
Alabama… They’d be a rough matchup, but they did get absolutely blitzed by a Mountain West Champion two years previous.
http://www.frogsowar.com/
Cam Newton shredded everybody
to include defense that were much better than TCU’s. Nothing I saw from TCU in the Rose Bowl last year would make me believe he wouldn’t have done the same to them.
As to Tressel, I don’t want to open up a whole ‘Tresselball’ argument, but what he did worked—and he wasn’t afraid to air it out against teams he felt he needed to outscore—Arkansas and Oregon in the BCS, for example. I don’t think TCU would’ve beat OSU last year.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
And to add to that...
As maligned as Tresselball has been this year, we now know that he’s the genius who had been calling the plays. Hate Bollman all you want, Coach Tress ran a one-man show, and it was good for a Natty and four BCS wins.
Also, no way TCU’s D stops OSU’s O from last year. Lest Frogger forget it, our power O stacks up nicely against that smaller, lighter defensive front 6 of Patterson’s 4-2-5. And honestly, if he wanted to bring a 6’ 190lb safety into the box to take on all 280lbs of Reid Fragel TE goodness, be my guest. And if somehow this vaunted Mountain West speed managed to beat the rush, please explain how that kid would have taken down all 6’6" 233lbs of 4.3 40-running monstrosity we had under center.
Don’t kid yourself. TCU was a good team, but the only reason they won the Rose Bowl last year was because Brett Bielma and Paul Cryst couldn’t gameplan their ways out of a cardboard box in a bowl game that matters (exhibit A: last year’s Rose. exhibit B: this year’s Rose).
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Wtf
and I think that TCU had the defense to bottle up the OSU running game and force Pryor to throw into our excellent secondary- which is pretty much the way we thumped Adrian Peterson’s Oklahoma team @ Oklahoma.
So you’re relying on a game from what, five years ago to predict that you could’ve beaten tOSU a year ago? WTF kind of logic is that? Same goes with the Alabama thing. That Sugar Bowl was three years ago. What does that have anything to do with today?
I use it for the comparison of scheme, my good chum- the 0U spread with AP is similar to the Tressel spread in many regards, so I’m pointing out that the 4-2-5 is quite proficient at taking away the running game against spread teams.
http://www.frogsowar.com/
No exaggeration... honest to god...
…this is the 1st time ever I have read or heard the term…
“Tressel spread”
Tressel spread… seriously?… Tressel spread
Throwing to the TE was a trick play in the offensive book…
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
The Tressel Spread?
Yeah, you’ll find it in the mythical playbook of fantasy next to the “RichRod Pro-Style.”
by mikjones24 on Jan 5, 2012 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Is it Dave with 2 WRs instead of 2 TEs?
That was about as wild as he got.
Wisconsin should've piss pounded TCU
No ifs, ands or butts about it. Unfortunately, their OC stuck his head directly up his ass immediately before game and lost interest in running.
After the way Clay had his way with the D-line...
like a woman of ill-repute in the fourth quarter? Don’t kid yourself. Wisky played right into the hands of TCU by being all cutesy with their shotgun snaps and “surprise pass-first” tomfoolery. And when they had a chance to redeem themselves, they chose to try the pass one last time on the two-point conversion. Tank’s a phenomenal LB, but he’s more accustomed to being in coverage against spread formations than diving at the ankles of a 255lb mountain of a running back.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Weeeeelll...
Don’t get me wrong—I rooted for Bucky in the Rose, but the perception of the conference lies in the hands of the flagship program.
I’m not pointing fingers at you, but I remember plenty of Big-Tenners rooting for OSU, then bashing the hell out of us for “embarrassing us all on the national stage in back-to-back contests” back in 07 and 08. Same deal. With great power comes great responsibility, and the Wisconsin coaching staff blew it. Twice. Bucky has not “had some abhorrent bowl record who has repeatedly shit the bed on behalf of the conference” but has certainly given unsavory individuals outside the B1G more ammunition to sling against our conference when they had the opportunity to silence the haters. Twice.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Yo don't worry, we'll make up for it next year
Some guy at Penn State Hershey just discovered a virus that eats cancer. Where were the CNN trucks for that? Now Someone at PSU found something that could cure Leukemia. Coverage? None. THON will probably break $10 mil this year. Put that on "Outside the Lines" you sanctimonious pricks!
I dearly hope so...
But how you guys will do that under the wall of impending NCAA destruction and public humiliation (let alone your QB situation) is beyond me. Good luck with that. Seriously.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
I don't see the NCAA giving a frack...
…and I don’t see it an impact on the coach or players next year.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Penn State may have gotten lucky that the crime was so severe the NCAA doesn’t want anything to do with the taint. But what I meant was that due to the current situation of uncertain stance by the NCAA (as all OSU fans found out this year, it’s a mercurial and hypocritical institution which doles out “justice” as the media firestorm sees fit) and uncertain coaching staff (whoever takes the place of JoePa will not be able to immediately mirror the level of celebrity and respect most people had for the old coach) has made the program less than attractive for current recruits. Exhibit A: Tommy Schutt. Exhibit B: Noah Spence.
So basically, I’m not doubting that PSU will recover from this. We all do from terrible letdowns. But I just don’t see that being “next year” like ICEICE is saying.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
I don't think it is the severity...
…I just don’t think it is an NCAA violation.
In the long run, it could help the FB team (depending on the next coach) – the kittens were stuck in middle gear under JoPa kind of like tOSU was under old reliable 9-3 Earl Bruce – not quite bad enough to fire, but not meeting their potential. I just wished they would have allowed a face saving announcement (like I had planned to retire at the end of this year anyway) and let him finish out the season.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I agree...
The NCAA doesn’t have jurisdiction over this. But as I said before, the NCAA doesn’t operate by any hard and fast rules or “precedent”. I could (unjustifiably) see them slapping some ridiculous scholarship reductions or monetary fines. Either way, as I put it before, that won’t stop coaches (like hide-yo-wives-hide-yo-kids Urban Meyer) from using that to lure potential PSU recruits away. We all saw what happened to OSU after Tressel left Cough-Kyle-Kalis-cough and I have no doubt the same will be, and has already been, happening to Penn State recruits.
And I do agree with you that in the long term, perhaps ole JoePa was indeed getting too old to keep up in full-swing. His presence will most definitely be missed, and it’s sad that he didn’t get to leave in a more dignified way (especially since he would have retired from the cancer anyway). And between you and me, though I’m appalled that he never followed up on McQueary’s report, I wonder if his age was finally getting to him this past decade with his decision-making.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
???
The NCAA doesn’t have jurisdiction over this. But as I said before, the NCAA doesn’t operate by any hard and fast rules or "precedent".
I can think of no example where the NCAA levied a sanction without finding a rule violation.
Either way, as I put it before, that won’t stop coaches (like hide-yo-wives-hide-yo-kids Urban Meyer) from using that to lure potential PSU recruits away.I honestly don’t think Urban would (or any other coach) needs to exaggerate potential sanctions to get a recruit from PSU. PSU’s epic 8+ week search for a new HC is sufficient.
I am starting the rumor they are considering the ramifications of “Show Cause.”
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I know.
Which is why I’m disturbed by Mark Emmert making comments like this:
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
NCAA ejaculate.
Nothing more.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Honestly my comment was facetious in nature
I can’t project our future till’ a new HC is hired.
Some guy at Penn State Hershey just discovered a virus that eats cancer. Where were the CNN trucks for that? Now Someone at PSU found something that could cure Leukemia. Coverage? None. THON will probably break $10 mil this year. Put that on "Outside the Lines" you sanctimonious pricks!
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 5, 2012 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
Dunno
Sorta felt bad for Clemson last night. Then again, this might not happen if we’d just take away the ACC’s AQ bid.
Indeed.
What WVU did last night to Clemson was what elite teams do to FCS teams—oh wait, the Bama-GSU game this year was closer than that!
Seriously, this (and the Sugar Bowl) is the reason the ACC should never be invited to the BCS again. Say all you like about the Big East—at least they’ve taken home a trophy or two on the big stage.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Yes Yes Yes
Join Delany in ending AQ status!
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
"Well, if Homer Simpson wants his ten-year-old son working in a burlesque house,
then Homer Simpson’s ten-year-old son is going to work in a burlesque house! That……
Ha-ha-ha… Hi! Now, Marge, you’re gonna hear a lot of crazy talk about Bart working in a burlesque house…"
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Jan 5, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Boy, that escalated quickly
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 5, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
At least no one's mentioned Tresselgate
until now
/has gone full troll’d
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Ball's back BTW.
Suddenly I don’t feel as badly about the enormous holes at QB, WR, FS, CB, K/P, etc.
Now back to whether we can collectively determine using a mixture of objective and subjective criteria just who was better in 2011 – UM or MSU. It has been entertaining so far but we are not quite yet at self immolation.
What...the...HELL
I go away for one day…ONE DAY…and this happens?
Epic Pissing In Each Other’s Wheaties Is Epic, Sparty and Mich fans.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
Apparently at heart...
We are just a bunch of four-year-olds, sitting in the back seat and slapping each other.
/I’m not touching you
//Cut it out!
///I’mnottouchingyouI’mnottouchingyou
////MMMMOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!
Now Ted, if you would be kind enough to turn around and yell, "I SWEAR TO CHRIST, IF YOU DON’T SIT STILL AND SHUT UP I WILL PULL THIS THING OVER!
Don't be that guy.
What are you talking about
OSU wasn’t in the drivers seat this year!
Yes we were!!
Of the Fisher-Price Hot Wheels mobile spinning circles around Columbus until the wheels fell off. :/
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Was that when Bauserman was at the wheel?
Or under it?
Looks like he just combined his home and auto insurance too.
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
by Pariahwulfen on Jan 5, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I am just here for the many, many opportunities for smart arse remarks and overt sarcasm.
Don’t rain on my parade!
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
So, am I the only one scared by the fact...
…that Ozy is singlehandedly making me more likely to cheer for Michigan when they play for MSU next season? I mean, MSU pretty much gets my support by default in that matchup but seriously, I want to gouge my eyes out with a spork and then shout Go Blue right now.
And it makes me feel dirty and wrong.
by GoAUpher on Jan 5, 2012 4:31 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I get what he’s saying, and I agree to an extent. I don’t get what complaining about it is going to change. Actions speak louder than words, I say. Want respect? Dominate your schedule, win the B1GCCG, and crush an SEC opponent next year. This team coming back (without Worthy) can definitely run the table if they play to their potential.
Besides, look at the number of MSU fans agreeing with 98% of the board.
Feel better now?
There is a reason I said Ozy...
…and not Spartan fans. But Jebus, can’t all of you in green and white pitch in for a shock collar as a belated Christmas gift or something? =)
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