Could Bill O'Brien Be a Good Fit For What Penn State Needs Right Now?
Just about every sports information outlet is going with Bill O'Brien to Penn State as a done deal. Just about every analyst is surprised at the hire, and just about every Penn State [internet] fan is furious. The criticism is based on two things: 1) he has almost no name recognition, and if he has any it is from a sideline argument with Tom Brady; 2) he has almost no track record of success at the college level, and his success at the pro level is easily disregarded because Charlie Weis had the same job and failed as a college HC (or Brady/Bellichick, take your pick).
Ladies and gentlemen: this was never the post-Paterno hire that we fantasized about for decades. Succeeding an icon is only the second most difficult thing the new PSU coach has to address. For the next two or three years the Sandusky cloud will continue to hang heavy over this program, and anyone who took this job had to be willing to become associated (to a degree) with it and be willing to try and overcome it in the minds of all his stakeholders.
But maybe, maybe, immediate name recognition and the off-season buzz it brings is not the most important thing for Penn State right now. A demonstrated record of a success at the college level would makes all feel a lot better, but I'm not ready to say that just because Charlie Weis and Eric Mangini failed after leaving the Patriots that this guy will.
Did I want the new hire to have those calm- and excitement-inducing bullet points on his resume? Of course. Do I want to know something about the hire, like maybe even what he looks like/voice sounds like? Yes. But there are some job requirements particular to this hire, following Paterno and the Scandal, that just might be more important and that people are forgetting while they reasonably respond react with immediate hysteria.
While Bill O'Brien is not a "home run" "slam dunk" hire, maybe he addresses three key criteria that are vital to the program right now: 1) distance from the Sandusky-involved past; 2) a disciplinarian who will minimize bad news going forward; and 3) results on the field (yes, this is not completely ruled out before he is announced as head coach).
Distance From The Past
Penn State was always handicapped throughout this hiring process. They could not, could not, hire any candidate that worked alongside Jerry Sandusky, which cuts out decades of potential hires.
The Sandusky trial will play out in ugly fashion during this coach's tenure. It is more likely than not that uglier details will emerge. Only by hiring someone who was in no way, shape, or form connected to the program at that time do you eliminate the chance that reporters will continue to ask Scandal-related questions at Penn State press events from here forward.
On this point, at least, the administration finally and inarguably got it right.
Control of Player Behavior
So Bill O'Brien brings a clean break from the past and gives us a blank slate. You know what you have to do with a blank slate? Keep It Clean.
Earlier in the week I heard from one of the few connections I have with people involved with the NFL is that Bill O'Brien would be well-suited for the PSU job because he was a disciplinarian. And this was meant as a positive, knowingly full well the need to appeal to recruits.
You know what Penn State doesn't need going forward? Another Royal Rumble at an apartment complex. More DUI's. Domestic violence accusations. Can any coach eliminate the ability of college kids to make mistakes on Saturday night? Of course not. But for the next two or three years personal responsibility needs to be stressed as much as any other aspect of being a player on the Penn State football team.
Any legal transgressions will be analyzed under a magnifying glass going forward. Penn State isn't the clean program where incidents are pointed out because they are examples of imperfection anymore. Now all bad things will be (unfairly) listed of examples of a negligent administration, program out of control, or whatever else the Worldwide Leader wants to spin it into. The new coach has to run a tight ship to limit this as much as possible.
RESULTS
Oh yeah, and let's get real: this is still a head coach at a major traditional power. You must win. The win/loss record directly impacts interest in the program both within and outside of the fanbase. And our president can talk about emphasizing the academic aspects of Penn State as much as he wants: football built this school. Football is the bell cow. Over the long term Penn State football is the biggest part of the engine that runs the Penn State University organization.
I think right now, however, you need to look at the short term. Two or three years - the time until the Scandal probably starts to subside a bit and Penn State can more or less go back to being something like what it was before. And for that reason, "Results" comes third in the criteria I list.
And in the short term, I think any candidate that is hired needs some slack. Have you seen the quarterback situation? The last recruiting class wasn't exactly lights-out, and the search committee did the new hire no favors regarding the timing of landing the current class. This team will struggle next year if you hired Tebow Himself as the head coach.
Bill O'Brien brings experience with the wildly successful Patriots offense with him, and gets to toss around names like Brady and Belichick in recruits' living rooms. You certainly have to temper this with the fact that it didn't translate to lasting success for Charlie Weis, but I don't think that it somehow condemns him as a failure before he starts.
But hysterical Penn State fans, don't you remember clamoring for improved offensive coaching for, like, over a decade??? Bill O'Brien may not be the greatest offensive coach of all time, I personally have no idea. But you know who he is not? Jay Paterno.
Don't get me wrong: there are plenty of question marks following this hire. Will O'Brien be able to recruit, or bring in others who can? Can he bring in grade A coordinators? Maybe Penn State's scandal and ongoing negativity were too much to lure a tried-and-true candidate right now. Hopefully O'Brien still addresses some of these fundamental requirements in the turbulent times to come. I don't know much about him, but I'm willing to learn, and I'm willing to consider that he just might fit what we need right now.
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Oh yeah, and admittedly still troubling: I don't know how much this undercuts everything I've said, but the idea that he may continue to coach the Patriots through the playoffs and "recruit on his lunch break" a la Weis is laughable in a macabre, lose-all-hope-I-had-anyway sort of way. Sigh.
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One more log on the pyre
I think that it should be mentioned that O’Brien’s job becomes harder by a factor of 10 when the alumni don’t rally around him.
It’s going to be a rough five year stretch for Penn State. If fans don’t want to believe it, that’s one thing, but it isn’t going to make it less true.
"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Patrick Vint
"I thought it was laughable when you first put it up, but you were obviously smarter than me." - PurdueMatt
http://www.offtackleempire.com
The alumni reaction
The knee jerk reactions of the fan base have been hysterical and childish so far. The internet was sort of made to record that kind of behavior though.
The real issue
Penn State fans might not believe it, but the real reason that a coach “with a track record of success at the college level” isn’t coaching at Penn State is probably because Penn State offered the job to all those guys and they all turned it town. Coaching Penn State is like jumping into a frying pan, and any coach that has had moderate success at the college level has opportunities where his chance of success are much higher.
O’Brien could pull off the amazing turnaround, but as I’ve figured out from reading “Three and Out” that becomes very difficult when you’re lacking support. Chances are he has a terrible few years, gets fired, and Penn State only truly starts moving beyond the scandal in 2015.
by lonewolf371 on Jan 6, 2012 9:03 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
This
I believe that you have it exactly right. Penn State is going to spend the short term battling with Purdue and Illinois for third place. Next year, I’m not sure that they’ll get it.
"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Patrick Vint
"I thought it was laughable when you first put it up, but you were obviously smarter than me." - PurdueMatt
http://www.offtackleempire.com
Very likely
I said elsewhere: Maybe, just maybe, every “home run” hire told the search committee that they would be interested the next time around (2-3 years), but they couldn’t do their job in the environment that Penn State is right now and it will be as the Sandusky trial unfolds in ugly fashion over the next two years or so. MAYBE Bill O’Brien is the best hire that could be made.
Get mad at the method and the secrecy, that isn’t a problem to me. But if Bill O’Brien is our new coach, he is going to need the support of the alumni to succeed. Penn State football won’t be better by turning your back on a coach because you didn’t like the circumstances he showed up under.
Yep Agree
I feel like they’re pulling a TSUN with how they handled the Hoke hire:
(1) Bring in a lesser-known quantity who will steer the broken ship back in the direction they need to go.
(2) Give him 2-3 years to right the ship
(3) If things work out, hooray! If they don’t, can him and get the Next Big Thing once the turbulence of the initial period is over.
"There is a force that makes us all brothers, no one goes his way alone." --Woody Hayes
Just for the record, the only guys Penn State "offered the job to"
Were Meyer & Richt. Guys like Petersen weren’t ever considered
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 8, 2012 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
If this is to say...
…they weren’t contacted for consideration, and not that they turned it down, then I think less of the coaching search than ever before.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
For the record, I'm not sure where he's getting that from
I haven’t seen any public admission from anyone besides Greg Roman and Tom Clements that they were contacted. I would very much guess that Munchak and Peterson, among others, were contacted – but any mention of them is pure speculation as far as I understand it.
Not considered
anybody who didn’t have any NFL experience was never considered
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 8, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
Family of someone on the search committee
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 8, 2012 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
Was it reported somewhere, or did you have a personal connection?
Just curious because 1. this is the first time I’ve heard that, and 2. that’s incredibly stupid.
At this point, the less we know about the incompetence of the search committee
…the better.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Personal connection, growing up in State College, you do meet some people, haha
The thinking was that they needed a way to try to one up Urban Meyer.
My first choice would’ve been Chris Petersen, but by the looks of it, O’Brien is doing rather well so far
so far
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 8, 2012 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
We'll see, Bill is great so far and he's been hiring NFL assistants to come coach the same positions here
We’ll see, he’s an enigma right now, the whole program is.
It’s nice for a change
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 9, 2012 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
"Offered" and offered are two different things
These things don’t always go to an official offer, many times the AD will tell a guy to tell a guy to tell a coach somethin’-somethin’, and the coach will respond by telling a guy who tells a guy to tell the AD blahblahblah. In this fashion Dave Brandon offered the job to Jim Harbaugh and others before going to Hoke, but only actually “offered” Hoke.
Is he related to Conan?
Man… they should’ve tried to get Conan.
His press conferences would have been AWESOME.
Sigh.
Wanted cocoa, but got marshmallow instead.
The sideline is always greener at MSU.
If it's any consolation
A lot of UM fans felt this way about the hiring of Brady Hoke. Now look at them.
The only problem with that is that a lot of Penn State fans are reacting the way many Michigan fans did when Rodriguez was hired.
by GCS on Jan 6, 2012 9:26 AM CST up reply actions
A more apt parallell
might be Florida with the hiring of Ron Zook.
"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Patrick Vint
"I thought it was laughable when you first put it up, but you were obviously smarter than me." - PurdueMatt
http://www.offtackleempire.com
Or the alumni displeasure displayed at Indiana...
…when Bob Knight was fired.
by GoAUpher on Jan 6, 2012 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Better reference point - the Rich Rod hire.
The PSU fanbase seems to be rapidly devolving into where the Michigan fans were in Spring 2008 – support the new guy (O’Brien) vs. we should have hired one of ours (Bradley).
But only to a point. RichRod had a base of support
There was a lot of controversy, but at least you could look to his track record and say that there was potential there. He had won in the Big East, recruited well, and at the time you could look at the hire and say that he would have success at Michigan. It wasn’t in the traditional ‘Michigan Man’ way, but ther e were reasonable expectations for success.
I don’t know how you can make that leap with O’Brien, his resume, and the fact that he is putting recruiting on the back burner.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
Michigan Man?

You win with people (not named Joe Bauserman)
by BuckeyeSki on Jan 8, 2012 1:14 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
as did Iowa fans when Ferentz was hired.
relatively unknowns do sometimes work
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey
by White Lightning on Jan 6, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
EVERY coach is an unknown . . .
until he is known.
by Disinterested Par-tay on Jan 6, 2012 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
This was a complete failure
Absolutely agree with your first point. No way they could hire Tom Bradley, or anyone on the current or recent past staff. I get that fans want continuity, but keeping anyone on that only had one or two degrees of separation from Sandusky would never allow the foootball program, in it’s current state, to separate itself from that.
Not having a Penn State background is a big deal in some respects—this is akin to Michigan hiring Rich Rodriguez…except O’Brien doesn’t have the impressive resume that RichRod had. His college offenses have been bad, and you can argue that anyone with basic football knowledge will be set up for sccess in New England, with the likes of Brady, Welker, Gronkowski, etc.
The reaction from Penn State fans is somewhat justified—look, they weren’t getting Miles, Saban, Richt, Kelly, or any other big name coach. But they could’ve made a Tim Beckman/Jerry Kill-type hire—solid X and O guy that could navigate this program through what are going to be troubling times, while looking at PSU as a coaching opportunity of a lifetime. Yet Joyner went and got a guy with a sketchy track record, who has a stated desire (at least from his agent) to be a head coach in the NFL, who is only going to be recruiting part time while he focuses on the playoffs. And I know some folks are going to say ‘hey, Michigan fans didn’t like Brady Hoke when he got hired’, but comparing this hire to that hire is as an apples to oranges comparison as there ever was. Hoke said he would’ve crawled to Ann Arbor over broken glass to take that job, and he had a track record of recruiting and coaching that you could look to and say ‘I can get behind this guy’ if you were a UM fan.
This was a disaster for PSU, from this secretive search, to promises of a ‘home run hire’, to hiring a guy that has his eye and his priorities elsewhere. I can see why the alumni are pissed.
I feel bad for you PSU. This is a bad day, that starts off what will probably be the worst era in PSU football.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
by Ted Glover on Jan 6, 2012 9:27 AM CST reply actions 8 recs
One quibble
Agree wholeheartedly with one adjustment. The worst era of Penn State football started the day that the indictments were announced. That started the whole ball of wax rolling. The firing of JoePa. The end of Bradley as a possible long-term successor. A 1-2 end to the season. Becoming toxic in the bowl selection process. The team no-showing the Ticket City Bowl. The horrible search process and result. The day the Sandusky story broke was the day that Penn State football began to sink. It hasn’t stopped yet. It probably won’t for a couple of years more.
…And I feel like I’m going to need this addendum on any number of posts…nothing in talking about the Penn State coaching situation is meant to diminish the horrible things that Sandusky and the Penn State administration did. While I feel bad for fans who will suffer through a bad stretch, the institution has brought this period on in what it has done, and in what it has failed to do.
"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Patrick Vint
"I thought it was laughable when you first put it up, but you were obviously smarter than me." - PurdueMatt
http://www.offtackleempire.com
Yeah, when I said 'worst era'
I meant on the field. The Sandusky scandal is so much more than football, that I’ve mentally detached what he did from the on the field stuff. Is that right or fair? Probably not, but at some point we have to take what that evil bastard did and separate it from present day Penn State football. With the hiring of Bradley, that wouldn’t have been a possibility.
I figure with O’Brien, we will be able to do that. And what we’ll see on the field is going to be bad for the next few years.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
They're seperating it over at BSD
Success with Honor still holds…
All those kids who played for us and won, guys like Lavar Arrington, Dan Connor, Paul Posluszny, etc… Do you think they suddenly feel like they played without honor? No way.The shit with Sandusky is separate.
Success with honor means not selling your memorabilia for tats. It means not taking cash and cars from boosters. It means not letting an agent buy you a suit before the heisman ceremony…
We still have success with honor. The day that’s gone is the day I become a Miami fan.
So they’ve still got “success with honor” going for them, which is nice.
Really? I...I...well then
Not condoning Tatgate, but to try and even bring it in the same conversation as Sandusky buggering little kids and the school covering it up is about as far off the ‘honor’ scale as one could get. And I said ‘present day’ Penn State team. Those kids had nothing to do with what happened, and I feel terrible that they’re getting dealt such a crappy hand.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
I agree with you
There’s selling memorabilia for free tattoos. Then there is buggering kids.
The degree of separation between those is like Earth to rock formerly known as Pluto.
That's one random guy on a comment thread
Don’t judge the entire fan base on his comment.
Jerry Kill type hire.
In the future I hope all Big Ten teams aspire to make a ‘Jerry Kill type hire’.
Minnesota Gopher fans
sympathize with Nits fans everywhere
Under.
Big 10 has a pretty solid coaching stable right now.
"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."
Yeah, but that stable?
Considering the mess that Penn State is in right now, I think it’s reasonable to assume that he gets at least 5 years (and more if, God forbid, he is actually successful). Do you really think that at least 3 of Hope, Wilson, Kill, and Beckman will last that long? And this doesn’t even consider the possibility of a surprise turn of events in a seemingly stable situation, a la Tressel/Paterno.
I’m picking over.
Wilson, Kill, and Beckman
just got hired, and Kill got an extension. Kill has the support of the fans and the administration, so unless he really does something Brewster-like, or goes winless for the next two years (highly doubt both), he’s safe for a long time.
Beckman just got the job. No way Illinois is stupid enough to start doing a two or three eyar coaching carousel. If they gave Zook five or six years, Beckman will get that courtesy. Same deal for Wilson, I would think, but I’m not as plugged in to Indiana as I am the other two.
I’ll give you Hope, but that’s the only guy in the conference that is remotely under any type of hot seat.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
If Wilson has seasons like last year in the next two, he's going to be in trouble
Let’s just call it the Turner Gill effect. I think that the under would be the safe bet, but I could see Hope and Wilson fired before O’Brien (with Wilson getting a one year head start on calls for his head). Also, let’s not kid ourselves. Rabid fanbases can cause administration to do some silly things. I personally like Pelini (I’m in a strong minority here), but he’s not exactly a popular individual right now. TO has his back, but how long will he be AD? It’s hard to say. No one’s on the hot seat… until they are.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 6, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Wilson’s only gone if IU loses like Kansas under Gill (embarassingly and often). The way the schedule, I don’t see that happening. Until this past year, they were usually 5-0, 4-1 going into B1G play (sure, they’d lose out, but that’s expected of IU). I see that happening again,.
Plus, Wilson’s the best IU can do, and they know it.
That's fair
Still, that was what was said about the guy @ New Mexico (I’ll remember his name eventually). The whole, “Best we can get” scenarios end up bombing and administration is forced to move on. There is a great distraction in basketball being restored right now, but I still could see Wilson ushered out after year three or four. If he makes it to four, though, you’re right in assuming he outlasts O’Brien.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 6, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Locksley?
If so, now way he was the best. He was a great east coast recruiter (in New Mexico?!?) with no head coaching experience who ended up in so over his head he punched his secretary (not accurate).
Oh, that's right... Isn't there someone in the SW who fired a coach in an untenable situation.
I’ll be honest, my current events of coach firings/why coaches get fired is a little rusty. I’ve been trying to still figure out what cities house which colleges in the new conference. My head was on overload this season.
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 6, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
Over
Let’s see, Danny Hope is definately gone before OB, who else? Do they have to be fired? i could see Ferentz leaving. How about Pelini at Nebraska? He’s gone if they don’t win inside of two years.
My bet:
Hope and Pelini before 2015 season. OB after 2015 season.
I posted this last night, but still relevant in the newer thread.
A lot of the PSU guys aren’t really able to articulate exactly why they don’t want this guy right now. But here are my reasons:
1) His college resume is less than stellar. His Duke and GT teams were awful, Duke in particular was almost historically bad in terms of offensive production, making this years PSU team look like an offensive juggernaut.
2) Patriot OC’s don’t exactly have an awesome track record of being able to convert to head coaches. There is also a lot of talk that he’s not even around for offensive game planning between BB and Brady.
3) He had players involved in an academic scandal at GT. No. Fucking. Thank you.
4) His agent last week basically came out and said while the PSU job was nice, he really wanted to coach in the NFL. All other things being equal, I’d rather have a guy like Rome or Clements that absolutely wants to be here. Rome is an east coast guy that said he would like to retire as PSU’s head coach.
5) I honestly don’t think he’s good enough to justify canning the entire staff. We have official testimony from all involved parties saying they never discussed what happened with anyone else. The public is going to hate us no matter what we do, screw them. They’re basically taking a shit on the entire defensive staff who has dedicated most of their lives to the program.
6) He’s supposedly not even going to start right away, missing the most important recruiting weekend before NLOI day. Awesome
"This is being a Penn State fan. We’ll prove it, or we won’t. It’s not about proving it to them, it’s about proving to ourselves."
I don't get the blanket statement "They had to clean house"
Is this an attempt to mimic “Brave New World” where if a blanket statement is repeated 10,800 times, it will be taken as fact?
Looking at other college coaches that have been fired under duress, this simply isn’t true.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
by ProveIt on Jan 6, 2012 1:25 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
"Duress" doesn't begin to describe it
We’re talking about one of the – if not the – largest scandal in the history of sports. The fastest (and we’re talking a slooooowww fast) way to get past something so horrific is to clean house. That’s PR 101, but the PSU administation failed PR 201 which would be to do so quickly and competently.
Still not buying it.
I don’t see it as one of the largest scandals in the history of sports, and certainly not THE largest scandal.
I don’t see the elevation of an assistant coach as continuing the scandal longer. I do see the prolonged epic failure that was the HC search keeping the issue in the forefront, which could have been alleviated sooner… by elevating an assistant.
“Cleaning House” lends to the appearance the issue is bigger than it really was.
It may not be a cleaned house – I suspect O’Brien will keep more than 1 assistant given his delayed start.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
by ProveIt on Jan 6, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Care to name some bigger scandals?
“In all of sports” might be a stretch, but this is likely one of, if not the, worst scandal in college sports.
Elevate an assistant quickly and the media runs with “Penn State isn’t acknowledging the problem. Want proof? They didn’t clean house!” You can go round and round on whether this is fair or not. But it is what it is. Not acknowledging that fact is not a solution.
"Cleaning House" lends to the appearance the issue is bigger than it really was.
Yea, this is the sort of quote that PSU administration is trying to avoid being tagged with. Because to the media and casual observers the IMMEDIATE reaction to that statement is “WTF is wrong with you? PSU enabled a child rapist! That is a BIG DEAL!” I think you were trying to say “makes it look like more parties were responsible/culpable” (at least, that’s what I hope you meant) but you inadvertently showed exactly why you clean house. To avoid the opportunity to be painted as minimizing the severity of what has happened at PSU.
I live in reality.
In the real world, child molestation exists with alarming statistics.
In the real world, if someone relayed they saw your close colleague in the shared facilities shower with an adolescent boy, we would be skeptical to draw the conclusion molestation was taking place.
In the real world, on a busy day we might just pass it along as well, we might not report it, and we might not investigate the actions of a colleague ourselves.
In the real world, wholly aware of what a false claim of child molestation can do to a person, we might not pass this along to authorities if we did not believe it was true.
…you can easily prose it to sound much worse, but reality doesn’t exist in the prose. It is my belief the above are the circumstances that existed.
To answer your question "WTF is wrong with you?"
I live in the real world, viewed with the application of critical thinking – my conclusions evaluate simply stated facts, but are unconcerned with the way the facts are prosed. The more a conclusion is Dependant on the prose, the less basis it has in reality.
I might have taken the same actions as many of those we now condemn, and with some self honesty, so might have you.
In the PSU scandal, the severity lies more in the prose than reality. Reality is 1 child molester who committed his crime in campus facilities, and a couple of people who broke the law by not reporting it.
Disclaimer – the actions of some later down the chain are not excusable – it was their legal responsibility and/or part of their job description to report the event to legal authorities… these few failed PSU and society, and are deserving of appropriate punishment.
Care to name some bigger scandals?
Critical thinking has the relationship of this scandal to college football a secondary issue. The scandal is child molestation that went uninvestigated, it’s relationship to college football is coincidental – it could have been individuals, a business, or any other sport.
In your substantially limited scope from all of sports to only college football, I consider anyone associated with college football committing more serious crimes to be more serious.
I am certain you will understand I have no desire to research all rapist, murderers, etc. that have a relationship to college football.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
by ProveIt on Jan 6, 2012 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Surely this scandal, though it transcends sports, is rooted in sports and the culture of sports, especially as it relates to Penn State and the diefication of a coach. That’s what makes it so fascinating for some strange, car wreck reason.
I don’t see it as one of the largest scandals in the history of sports, and certainly not THE largest scandal.
What did you have in mind as being bigger when you said this? The only thing I can think of is the Baylor basketball scandal.
In the PSU scandal, the severity lies more in the prose than reality. Reality is 1 child molester who committed his crime in campus facilities, and a couple of people who broke the law by not reporting it.
You’re reality is great for the criminal aspect, but what about the moral and ethical realities? The child molester was know to several people on campus and continued to use campus facilities up unitl his indictment. Unpacking the motivations of individuals behind those ethical and moral realities is perhaps the most interesting and perverse (not in the Sandusky way) aspect of this.
...still stuck creating a reality based on prose?
Surely this scandal, though it transcends sports, is rooted in sports and the culture of sports, especially as it relates to Penn State and the diefication of a coach.
Attempt to escalate the severity by prose aside…
No – not reporting unconfirmed child molestation likely happens everywhere all the time – it is not rooted in sports.
What did you have in mind as being bigger when you said this?The criteria was already answered. It should be no surprise I have no desire to carry out an internet search of every rapist and murderer associated with college football.
You’re reality is great for the criminal aspect, but what about the moral and ethical realities?It is not my reality, it is reality based on the simply stated facts with the prose removed. Your moral and ethical realities are based more in the prose than reality. A reality based on prose is not real.
As noted, they are actions each of us might have undertaken. It is hypocrisy to condemn other for carrying out actions we might undertake ourselves.
The child molester was know to several people on campusAs noted, those who violated the law (campus security, etc.) are deserving of appropriate punishment – no soap boxing on moral issue is needed.
As also noted, he was not known to be a child molester – if you strip away the prose, any of us might not have believed the reports and/or might not have reported it.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
The criteria was already answered. It should be no surprise I have no desire to carry out an internet search of every rapist and murderer associated with college football.
This is where you’re slanting the focus to fit your perception. PSU isn’t embroiled in a scandal simply because of the criminal act. It’s the fact that the reporting of the criminal act was allegedly mishandled at multiple levels by those in the administration and because it involved an iconic coach. You can certainly point to things about that which you think are overblown, but it doesn’t change the fact the scandal is happening and PSU wants to be rid of it quickly.
I also think your claim that people are relying on prose is suspect. But that gets into moral/ethical lines versus legal lines. In other words, to opinion. And given how strongly you hold yours that’s pointless.
My point this entire time is simple. The decision to avoid the current staff shouldn’t be a surprise given the size of the scandal. Arguing about whether a scandal of this is is deserved skirts the point that the scandal already happened. PSU could try to fight this on your terms. They’ve chosen not to. And the fact that they did so really shouldn’t be a surprise.
by GoAUpher on Jan 6, 2012 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No, I fully acknowledge this.
PSU isn’t embroiled in a scandal simply because of the criminal act. It’s the fact that the reporting of the criminal act was allegedly mishandled at multiple levels by those in the administration and because it involved an iconic coach. You can certainly point to things about that which you think are overblown, but it doesn’t change the fact the scandal is happening and PSU wants to be rid of it quickly.
I fully acknowledge the scandal is exaggerated in the prose – Hippocratic moral evaluations of the actions of others.
My point this entire time is simple. The decision to avoid the current staff shouldn’t be a surprise given the size of the scandal. Arguing about whether a scandal of this is is deserved skirts the point that the scandal already happened. PSU could try to fight this on your terms. They’ve chosen not to. And the fact that they did so really shouldn’t be a surprise.My point is simpler – there is no basis in reality for cleaning house of those not involved. Elevating a coach outside the path of the reports would not have been a notable issue except among those will will find issues anyway.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
My point is simpler – there is no basis in reality for cleaning house of those not involved.
Reality as defined by you.
However in the reality where we exist (where the media does exaggerate the scandal via prose) there’s plenty of basis, which GoAUpher has explained in great length. In other words, in actual reality there’s plenty of basis.
I realize that you wish we resided in a world where people weren’t manipulated by eloquent prose poured from the pens of people judging the actions of others, but that world is a complete fantasy and completely ignores the way humanity operates.
This makes the assumption there was a gain from waiting and clearing house.
I do not believe there was any gain, I do not believe the result of elevating a current assistant would have changed the disposition of the press, and I believe a greater loss resulted from the delay.
Example – the use of the term “Toxic” in describing the coaching search.
However in the reality where we exist (where the media does exaggerate the scandal via prose) there’s plenty of basis, which GoAUpher has explained in great length. In other words, in actual reality there’s plenty of basis.This is not the way I use the term reality. In my use, I refer to reality as the actual situation stripped of the narrative.
I realize that you wish we resided in a world where people weren’t manipulated by eloquent prose poured from the pens of people judging the actions of others, but that world is a complete fantasy and completely ignores the way humanity operates.I do not deny the existence of the narrative – I address it directly.
I do deny the narrative accurately describes the circumstances..
I do reserve the personal right to criticize hypocrisy and remove the narrative to reveal the simply stated reality in my evaluation.
If you choose to embrace hypocrisy and weigh your decision more on the narrative than the true circumstances, it is your right.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I understand what you are saying to a point.
I’m also saying that the primary drivers of the conversation, the media, aren’t playing by your rules.
my conclusions evaluate simply stated facts, but are unconcerned with the way the facts are prosed.
You can choose to ignore that if you want, but it isn’t changing. That’s what I mean by “living in reality”. The PSU administration is aware of this fact and decided that they don’t have the ability or desire to fight about the distinction you’ve made.
You don’t have to agree with that. But to pretend that element doesn’t exist is just being willfully ignorant. The battle isn’t currently being fought on the terms you’d like to use. I’d argue it can’t be successfully fought there. I’d also argue it shouldn’t be fought there.
You also don’t need to do much research. There just isn’t a modern parallel (other than the Baylor mess) that includes members of athletic department keeping ties to a reported child molester and rapist along with mishandling the reported crime. The issue isn’t that there was a rape or a murder. It’s that the heinous act reported was allegedly not handled correctly by those in power. That’s why its a scandal instead of a tragic story.
by GoAUpher on Jan 6, 2012 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
This jumps at a false conclusion.
I’m also saying that the primary drivers of the conversation, the media, aren’t playing by your rules. The media is starting with an objective and backfilling the reasons. Going outside the program will have no substantial impact on their response.
Any gains of waiting 2 months to go outside the program are lost with the coaching replacement issue maintained at the top of the headlines during that time.
Example – the description of “Toxicity” of grew out of the elongated coaching search.
You can choose to ignore that if you want, but it isn’t changing. That’s what I mean by "living in reality". The PSU administration is aware of this fact and decided that they don’t have the ability or desire to fight about the distinction you’ve made.I am obviously not ignoring it, I am addressing it. I am not trying to change it.
I will claiming sacrifices that do not improve the situation are acts of futility and should not be undertaken.
You don’t have to agree with that. But to pretend that element doesn’t exist is just being willfully ignorant. The battle isn’t currently being fought on the terms you’d like to use. I’d argue it can’t be successfully fought there. I’d also argue it shouldn’t be fought there.I am not ignoring it. I am not trying to change the battle field or the rules.
I do reserve the personal right to criticize hypocrisy and remove the narrative to reveal the simply stated reality in my evaluation.
If you choose to embrace hypocrisy and weigh your decision more on the narrative than reality, it is your right.
You also don’t need to do much research. There just isn’t a modern parallel (other than the Baylor mess) that includes members of athletic department keeping ties to a reported child molester and rapist along with mishandling the reported crime. The issue isn’t that there was a rape or a murder. It’s that the heinous act reported was allegedly not handled correctly by those in power. That’s why its a scandal instead of a tragic story.More prose to exaggerate the claim – it isn’t just the press who find the need to develop the narrative to make it more than what it really is… 1 child molester who committed a crime in the facilities, and a couple of people who violated the law by not reporting possible child molestation to the legal authorities.
I would consider any single murder by someone associated with college football to be worse than the collective crimes of those at PSU, because I consider 1 murder to be a far worse crime than multiple child molestations.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I would say its pretty much no. 1 in college football
I didn’t anything was as bad as Miami earlier in the year, and this blew it out of the water.
I will say this, it do think that some people do need to get over the “anybody affiliated with Paterno and/or Sandusky protects child predators” ethos that seems to be out there. Personally, I think that PSU could have hired a former player/coach that had no connection with this scandal vs. feeling that they had to have someone from the outside, if true.
On the hire itself, kinda screams Cahallan/Weis, but could be Carroll.
Google's homepage celebrates too much shit.
Pete had previous HC experience though.
That issue, above all, is the biggest head-scratcher to me.
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jan 6, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
The issue...
I will say this, it do think that some people do need to get over the "anybody affiliated with Paterno and/or Sandusky protects child predators" ethos that seems to be out there. Personally, I think that PSU could have hired a former player/coach that had no connection with this scandal vs. feeling that they had to have someone from the outside, if true.
…is that the “some people” that PSU is/should be worried about is the press, who are after clicks, pageviews, etc. You try to convince the media to leave a juicy story alone.
THIS IS A GREAT HIRE
for Ohio State fans.
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jan 6, 2012 2:38 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Before the search started
I thought they might go after a Bill Curry type. A veteran college HC with an outstanding reputation for doing things the right way. Someone secure enough in themselves to want to tackle the PSU job as one last thing before they retire in a few years. He might only win 8-9 games a year, but he’ll right the ship so a big name guy can replace him in 2017 or so.
Instead, the went with a non-HC with no reputation. Interesting choice.
Quite simply
I wish nothing but the worst for Joyner, the coaching search committee, and the BOT. For O’Brien, welcome. Get your shit together, leave the Patriots pronto, and get to work.
Consider this my official declaration of non-support of child molestation.
Well, I'm beginning to warm up to the hire
Some guy at Penn State Hershey just discovered a virus that eats cancer. Where were the CNN trucks for that? Now Someone at PSU found something that could cure Leukemia. Coverage? None. THON will probably break $10 mil this year. Put that on "Outside the Lines" you sanctimonious pricks!
Worst case scenario
He is what everyone expects, but takes the weird transition pressure off a really good coach and PSU ends up better than where it started.
Best Case Scenario is that he is way better than everyone expected, does good things with a team in need of stability and resources at his fingertips, and competes for the division next year.
Neither case seems to be all that bad considering the circumstances (not even Sandusky… just even following Paterno).
Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.
Author @ Off Tackle Empire
Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker
by KennardHusker on Jan 7, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
He's keeping LJ and seems smart
The presser really won me over, he seems smart. He also praised Joe
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 7, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Not quite...
Worst case scenario He is what everyone expects, but takes the weird transition pressure off a really good coach and PSU ends up better than where it started.
No, this isn’t the worse case scenario.
Worse case is he is the 1st of many failed coaching hires as PSU drops from a relevant brand for a decade plus.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Penn State released contract information for new football coach Bill O’Brien, who has a five-year contract worth $2.3 million per year
Proff the lost their mind
I was expecting Penn State to “take a flyer” on a coordinator (although never heard of O’Brien prior to this). Effectively Penn State was in a can’t win situtation. The biggest targets and best name brands (Munchak, Shiano, etc) were staying clear. I’m sorry to Penn State alumni and players, but you have to accept that they are toxic right now and will be until after the Sandusky trial. As such they went with a guy a chance that wouldn’t otherwise have gotten one. If it works out great, and if doesn’t blame it on the scandle. But to pay this guy this much is incredible:
To put this in perspective:
Tim Beckman makes $1.8 mil at Illinois
Dana Holgorsen makes $1.4 mil per year at West Virginia
Kevin Wilson makes $1.2 mil per year at Indiana
Jerry Kill makes $1.1 mil per year at Minnesota
NOT TRUE
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203513604577146770708816102.html
He received a five-year contact with a base compensation starting at $950,000 with a 5-percent salary increase each season. Mr. O’Brien was also to receive another $1 million a year for radio and television work, as well as a $350,000 Nike contract.
I don’t see how that adds up to $2.3 mil/year
Manager at BT Powerhouse a Big Ten basketball blog
@babaoreally
Um...wha?
950K + 1M + 350K = 2.3M
by GoAUpher on Jan 7, 2012 4:51 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
I'm an idiot
I didn’t see the million for the radio and TV. That seems like a crazy amount for TV/radio when there is almost no time put into it.
I wonder how the other coach contracts are split up with the TV/radio/shoe company money? Anybody have any idea?
Manager at BT Powerhouse a Big Ten basketball blog
@babaoreally
I don't get it. And neither do a lot of PSU fans.
What I don’t get — in a situation where you have to recruit, and hire a whole staff, why hire a guy with no college HC experience, and probably limited ability to pull a good college staff?
What a lot of PSU fans don’t get — OK – Jerry Sandusky was just one, only one horrible creature. But he molested kids for years. And there’s a lot of smoke that says at least a couple, maybe more, of his bosses probably knew about it and did jack. And that, in the small environment of a college football program, leads people to believe maybe several people knew more. So anybody that might have been around and might have known, has to go. So the stench can clear.
Tom Bradley might be the best coach in the world. If he is, he can go show his talent somewhere else. Everybody will recognize it there, and maybe forget about Jerry Sandusky.
Paul -
Go Sparty! Go Bucks! Go Tigers!
The evidence no other coaches were notified...
…lies right next to the proof CRAIG JAMES KILLED 5 HOOKERS WHILE AT SMU is false.
This was dismissed when many (including PSU fans) tried this claim against Tressel,
and would have been discarded just as quickly here.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
by ProveIt on Jan 8, 2012 6:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Other than the fact, you know
Mike McQuery walked in on Sandusky raping a kid, told Paterno…and nothing happened to Sandusky for 10 years.
And both those guys were on staff for damn near a decade. So excuse the rest of the entire world if we draw a conclusion that maybe…just maybe…more than one other coach knew about what was going on.
And please, don’t try and link Tatgate—or Miami, South Carolina, or any other cash and benefits to play scandal to this in any context.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
by Ted Glover on Jan 8, 2012 8:23 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, there is the issue of Jerry leaving for absolutely no reason in 1999
Or at least, so it went, we all wondered why he left. Now we know.
There are also the reports that Joe did try to ban Jerry from campus, and was told to fuck off by the administration.
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 8, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
A huge Grand Jury investigation would disagree with you
There has been absolutely no evidence that anyone on staff besides McQueary and Joe had any idea of those events, so your conclusions are completely unfounded.
The decision to discount Bradley is an attempt to beg the media to stop talking about this. In actuality, many PSU fans feel that all it has done was give an impression of guilt, when there was none. By refusing to consider anyone currently on staff, it has “confirmed” what many suspected – that everyone knew. To me, that’s a worse PR move than keeping him on staff. But that’s just my take.
Okay, fair enough
I’m not here to bash the team and the fans. I feel sick about what happened, and I hope Jerry Sandusky spends the rest of his life in prison, and when he faces his Judgement Day, will be thus judged accordingly.
But that said, whether anyone besides JoePa and McQuery knew anything, it just looks bad to keep anyone else around. Maybe Bradley et al are all tertiary victims in all of this, and I’ll give the benefit of the doubt that they are.
But if anything at all comes out in the trial that makes it look like anyone else knew about it, and they were still on the staff, it would be another PR disaster that would not allow the football team to move forward.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
I didn't take it as you bashing us
But I’ve heard a lot of people say that anyone who thinks Bradley could have gotten the job “doesn’t get it.” I’m just trying to explain that we get it, we just see things differently. What Sandusky did sickens me too. And the inept reaction by our administration sickens me as well. But the BoT (and a lot of outsiders as well) seem to have this idea of guilt by association for everyone on the football staff, yet aren’t applying it to themselves.
But if anything at all comes out in the trial that makes it look like anyone else knew about it, and they were still on the staff, it would be another PR disaster that would not allow the football team to move forward.
I get this completely. And if it looks like there’s a chance he might have known something, then I can agree, he shouldn’t be considered. But it seems to me that if, between a grand jury investigation and an internal PSU investigation, he is found to have known nothing, then I don’t see a reason he couldn’t be considered. This is assuming that due diligence was done to come to this conclusion.
And on the note of a PR disaster, I think I speak for almost all PSU fans when I say that the administrations handling of this has been a model for what NOT to do during a scandal. Had they handled things better, I think there might be more people who think Bradley would be an ok choice. But PSU is as guilty themselves as anyone else for the perception of guilt by association for everyone on the football staff.
Sorry if this post comes off abrasive or defensive. I don’t intend it that way, I’ve just had so many arguments over the past month or two where people use the defense of “you just don’t get it” simply because they disagree.
Just like it would be bad...
…if it ever came out others knew about the transgressions of ___________
(insert any person who has ever done anything wrong in line above)
…if it ever came out others knew that CRAIG JAMES KILLED 5 HOOKERS WHILE AT SMU
…because if it ever did come out that something that didn’t happen occurred, it would be bad.
And no – I don’t think anyone else was told – if McQuery had told anyone else, he would have noted it. JoPa didn’t mention it because he didn’t believe it, and even a false claim of child molestation can hurt someone’s career for life. The administration probably didn’t tell others for the same reason.
…and I have proof, which I keep locked right next to the proof CRAIG JAMES KILLED 5 HOOKERS WHILE AT SMU is false… but I’m not gonna share. Phaaaaaat!
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
The rest of the world is excused.
…though I expected more from you Ted than biting on a conspiracy theory.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
It's a legitimate question, not a conspiracy theory
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
Good luck with that one.
Accusations lack of evidence is a result of lying (if only they would admit who else was told).
What is not absolutely known is phrased as evidence,
in much the same way we joke there is no evidence to prove
CRAIG JAMES KILLED 5 HOOKERS WHILE AT SMU is false…
…except you present the same thought process as “Legitimate.”
Not a single scrap of supporting evidence (unless you present what is not known as evidence).
Connections and assumptions everywhere (being on staff phrased as supporting they knew).
The most plausible explanation discarded (nobody else was told) in favor of conspiracy (the collusion goes far deeper).
Here… let me add a little twist to the theory…
No college coaches would take the PSU job out of fear it would be discovered they had heard of child molestation thru the coaching fraternity grapevine.
No basis in fact, not a scrap of evidence, but it sounds plausible, and it hasn’t been disporven, just as reasonable as every other rumor (I would say even a bit better)… a perfectly “Legitimate” question but by no means a “Conspiracy Theory”
In other words, all the ingredients of a… Conspiracy Theory.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Fwiw, the projected (Big note: Projected) staff looks like
LB Coach- Ron Vanderlinden
DL Coach- LJsr
DB Coach- Probably Kermit Buggs
DC- Glenn Spencer
so outside of Spencer, who’d come from OK State, we’d have great defensive assistants
QB Coach- Mark Whipple
WR Coach- Chad O’Shea
RB Coach- Charles London
OL Coach- Brent Key
OC- THE FRIDGE
honestly, that looks like a really good staff to me. Good balance of college guys to pro guys, though I wouldn’t be a huge fan of the Fridge coming in personally. Wouldn’t mind it.
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 8, 2012 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
Whipple
is the real question mark hire there, not Fridge, although if your reluctance is based on the general lack of discipline his Maryland teams had, I can’t really fault you for that. That said, I think that was more of a failing of Ralph as a head coach, not as an offensive coordinator, ya know? His teams didn’t have that problem at GTech 1 and 2, or at San Diego.
by Steve_Superior on Jan 8, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
Honestly, Whipple is looking less and less like he'll be hired right now
Because Bill will coach the QB’s
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 9, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
ICE, how would you evaluate that staff from a recruiting perspective?
I’ve seen mention LJ as the star recruiter on the current staff. Do you think Friedgen would be able to lock down the mid-Atlantic for you guys? (Although, he’s kind of getting long in the tooth to play that role.)
I dunno, I think LJsr gets a little overhyped
At the same time, only 4 PSU assistants worked full time recruiting before, so there should be a definite improvement
Fridge being hired helps, but a lot of his recruiting success can be attributed to James Franklin and other coaches. His name still carries weight though, and I think he’d help out a fair amount. But, lock down the Mid Atlantic? Mmmmm, not with Mike London at UVA, and if we were, it’d depend more on Bill O’Brien imo than the Fridge
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 9, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
psu fans are dreaming
This is the same fan base that thought they had a shot at Meyer, Saban, Petersen. This is a second rate job right now they won’t be terrible but mediocre for the next 10 years.
by spfldillinois on Jan 8, 2012 1:40 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
As an Illinois fan
You’d be an expert in mediocre.
Consider this my official declaration of non-support of child molestation.
not really
IL knows great and terrible, but they rarely manage mediocre, at least not under Zook.
by br27 on Jan 8, 2012 10:06 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Fridge is a HUGE hire
Hey all, I’m a longtime ACC guy and I’ve been following Ralph for a long time, and I have to say that whatever you think of Bill O’Brien, Ralph is a legit outstanding hire. Ross and him were the first people to do anything interesting with Maryland football since the 50’s, and then they took Georgia Tech to a national title in 1991 before going to the NFL and taking the CHARGERS to a super bowl. And I must say, his Georgia Tech teams he OC’d in the late 90s with Joey Hamilton (Aka, Black Flutie) were some of the most fun offensive teams I ever saw. His time at Maryland as HC was hit and miss, but overall, more success than that school was ever accustomed to having, and his offensive pedigree came out of College Park untainted.
He’s a great offensive coach with a long track record in the college game with a successful stint in the pros. If I’m a PSU fan, I’m so excited my coach hired a proven outstanding OC at the college level rather than some failed NFL OC like John Shoop to come into State College and turn the team into a failed NFL prep program that turns out recruits but never wins any games.
Mmm thanks, that's great insight :)
If Penn State fans and alumni truly believe that chant that echoes throughout Beaver Stadium ("We are....") then it's time to show it.
by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Jan 9, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions

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