Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

The B1G’s NCAA Tourney Bubble Is Close To Bursting, And Why The B1G Isn’t The Nation’s Best College Basketball Conference

Who says we can't write about basketball on OTE? With Spring Practice not quite heating up yet and some excellent storylines to be discussed, I wanted to ponder a little bit of media/reality disconnect I've been seeing regarding the B1G's basketball conferences.

Early this month, I read a few articles claiming the B1G is the best conference in college basketball. I was a tad surprised, well more than a tad surprised, because after watching a ton of games this year, I felt like the B1G wasn't that strong a conference. Sure we have tenacious Michigan, peaking Michigan State, and uber-talented OSU. But beyond them, very few teams strike me as dangerous or even Tourney worthy. These teams just don't pass the "do they look like an NCAA team" test. The conference as a whole plays defense well, which is important and half the battle, but...Illinois? Dead in the water. Purdue? Limping. Wisconsin? Cannot score the basketball.

My fears were confirmed today when "the best conference in the NCAA" was given only three locks for the NCAA Tourney by the SI Bubble Watch expert. Indiana and Wisconsin are "probably in", but not locks, according to this expert. The other possible four teams (Purdue, NW, Illinois, Minnesota) are closer to not making the Tourney...than to making it.

So what did we learn here?

Star-divide

It should be markedly obvious that the Big Ten is not in fact the dominant conference in college basketball. Our national championship results (no title since 2000, and before that, 1989) plus our Final Four presence of late (MSU and...) plus the amount of teams we're pushing into the Tourney this year, doesn't exactly equal dominance.

When the Mountain West may qualify as many Tourney teams as the SEC and the Pac 12 could qualify two teams overall, it should ALSO be markedly obvious that there is no dominant conference in the country. And any discussion of the Big East's tremendous depth is always colored by the huge amount of teams in that conference. Parity truly reigns across the basketball landscape, something we already knew coming off a 2011 Final Four that involved VCU and Butler.

There is one more issue this season taking down our national profile - disappointing teams. I would place Minnesota, Illinois, and Purdue squarely in that group, although I'm sure an argument could be made that Purdue has lost key players and lacks depth, thus their in-conference struggles could be expected.

Illinois has tremendous physical talent, it seems, but no cohesive offensive game and little defensive presence. The label of underachieving is never one you want to put on that program, but it's a great basketball school with fertile recruiting fields to sow, so I ask: What's the problem here?

Debbie Downer-ing aside, I don't want to piss on anyone's parade too much. This season has been so much fun, especially if you like defense and low scoring close games. We should start a whole other discussion thread just to discuss Coach of the Year: Does it have to be Izzo (from unranked to Top 10)? What about Fran McCaffery, winning games that this team doesn't deserve to win?

BONUS OTE FEATURE - My Three Favorite B1G Moments So Far

Michigan beating Ohio State at home. Well, of course I'm going to love that moment, but still, this was the biggest win for the Michigan basketball program since...the 90's?

Every game involving Draymond Green. He's running away with B1G POY because he's the glue guy and the star at the same time.

The Matt Gatens three point explosion against Indiana the other night. Last game I watched involving Iowa, they were getting beat by 40 at the Breslin. I turn around and BAM, Gatens goes off for 30. Beautiful.

Poll
Which B1G team is most likely to make an NCAA tourney run?
OSU
56 votes
MSU
213 votes
UM
34 votes

303 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 111 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

COY could also be Crean

did anyone who isn’t a Hoosier expect them to be where they are right now?

In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.

by Pariahwulfen on Feb 22, 2012 10:53 AM CST reply actions  

valid point sir

I might say though – Any “soft middle” B1G team that wanted to make a run, really could this year. It’s wide open for a team like Indiana. Just beat the pattsies, win 75% against the middle, and try to steal one from the top and voila, 22-11 (10-8) ish. That’ll get you in

by Graham Filler on Feb 22, 2012 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I would have agreed Crean earlier

Like right after the 15 game winning streak ended. But they’ve only won 5 of their last 11 (that’s how many games Statsheets goes back on the main page) and frankly, I don’t think too many people would have been surprised with a 22-23 win season & 5th-6th place in the B1G, which is where they seem headed right now. The Kentucky win was huge, of course (it’s Kentucky’s only loss this season), but that one great win doesn’t equal COY.

by MSUDersh on Feb 22, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

indiana

indiana was picked by a few to finish 11th this year. as an indiana fan i was hoping for an ncaa tourney appearance as a 9-12. now a 4 seed doesnt seem impossible.

by lcmcb on Feb 22, 2012 4:46 PM CST via Android app up reply actions  

I'm clearly biased

But I could go with Beilein as coach of the year. Starting a true frosh PG, “star” soph (Hardaway), and a bunch of barely-recruited types in Douglass, Novak, and Morgan. All of these guys, remarkably, were rated only 3 stars by Rivals. Vogrich (Jr),Smotrycz (So), and Brundige (Fr) are the only 4 stars on the entire roster, and none of them start. Talk about a relative talent deficit compared to msu, osu, illinois, and even indiana. That speaks to coaching.

by georgiablue on Feb 23, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

An established program

Cinderella’s are cute and “great for the game” but in the end it’s always the best team that wins. While there’s parity in certain aspects, one of the powerhouses always wins.

by mikjones24 on Feb 22, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

At least in hoops

The Cinderallas can be there, unlike in football, where the machine will always keep non-BCS conference schools out of the title game.

by MSUDersh on Feb 22, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

...says the fan of the team that lost to New Mexico State at home this past season.

Keep it up!

Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
Yes, I am on twitter. If you have to ask, you're streets behind.

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 22, 2012 11:39 PM CST up reply actions  

They're only there because there are so many teams in the field.

isn’t it 68 now? It’s impossible to find that many teams that should actually be there, and have a legit shot. If you expanded football to something that large those teams would be there, but since when does being there mean anything?

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 22, 2012 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

It means something in hoops

You get to cut down the nets & put up a banner for making a final four. Obviously winning the title means the most, but for Butler, VCU, George Mason, those banners are the pinnacle of success, and show that a little school from nowhere can hang with the big boys.

by MSUDersh on Feb 22, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I was eluding to makign the tournament vs the final 4

The final 4 is big for any school regardless of size, but just being 1 of 68? Meh.

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 22, 2012 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

oh oops my bad

I thought by being there, you meant having a chance to play in the football title game, which personally, I equate with making a final four in hoops (obviously not apples to apples, but close).

But for a lot of the smaller schools, which make up at least half of D1 hoops, just making the field of 68 is a major accomplishment. Though I think it means more in the Ivy League, where you have to win the regular season, as opposed to going on a 3-4 game run in a small counference tournament.

by MSUDersh on Feb 22, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

What about those schools with losing records?

Deciding conference champs through the conference tournaments is BS. They only made those things for ESPN and other tv partners to have programming. The regular season champs should get in, with tourney champs (they’re not going away) eligible for at large.

by rogerja on Feb 22, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed 100%

Not only is it BS to allow crappy teams who won a conference tourney in, but in a lot of cases, it can end up forcing out a small school that had a stellar regular season, only to catch a case of Zookitis in their conference tourney.

I googled, “Worst teams to make NCAA tourney,” apparently, this problem first emerged half a century ago, when 9-16 GWU won their conference tourney & snuck in. Most recently, we saw Oakland U from Rochester, MI (formerly Michigan State University – Oakland Campus, BTW) in 2005, they beat a good Oral Roberts team to win the Mid-Continent Conference Tournament (now the Summitt League).

Interestingly enough, that OU team also beat Alabama A&M in a play-in, before getting housed by UNC.

by MSUDersh on Feb 22, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd also like to point to '06-'07 Akron

who had a 26-7 record after falling asleep in their conference final, only to miss out on the post season all together.

In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.

by Pariahwulfen on Feb 22, 2012 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Whoops

Just saw you made the same argument as me. Haha.

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 22, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Especially those teams that win the Sun Belt or MEAC

It’s not exactly an “accomplishment” to get lucky during a conference tournament. I mean, it’s fun to watch (I fucking love it, actually) but I’d prefer if they stopped doing conference tournaments altogether and just gave the bids to the teams that win their conference outright. That way you don’t have a bullshit team like South Dakota State (or whoever that was last year) getting in with a losing record in a crappy low major conference.

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 22, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Those of us at Northwestern...

… would very much appreciate being be one of 68. Can your Bucks please cooperate on Saturday?

by GTom on Feb 23, 2012 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

ehhhh I hope not.

I see what you mean though. For most, it’s not good enough to merely make the field of 68 though.

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 23, 2012 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

But Butler was a legitimately good team for two years

They WEREN’T just a flash in the pan (VCU, however, was a different story).

That’s the difference between college football and college hoops, and why I will always like college hoops better: It’s not the same behemoth 10 teams that are always good. Mid-majors actually have a chance to build a program and compete with the BCS schools. I mean, teams like Gonzaga and Xavier and even Creighton and Utah State aren’t even “mid-majors” anymore, really, they’re legitimate contenders — if not for a title then at least to make a final four run.

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 22, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

RE: VCU

Am I the only one who thinks Shaka Smart should have taken the money & run for the first major conference job after that season????

FWIW, I feel the same way about Brad Stevens.

by MSUDersh on Feb 22, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions  

NOPE

I think he should have left as well. Dolla dolla bills ya’ll.

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 22, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup, gotta get PAID

You never know what tomorrow may bring. And there’s no security in America today like financial security.

by MSUDersh on Feb 22, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

There's a mini convo going on over at 11w about "selling out"

mostly as it pertains to music.

My stance is that there’s no such thing. Take it while you can make it.

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 22, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I'my sure the entire point of being a musician

Or any kind of artist, is to eventually have the opportunity to sell out

by MSUDersh on Feb 22, 2012 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I would think so

What other reason would have to delay making money?

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 22, 2012 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Probabaly

I don’t know why he didn’t.

I dunno about Stephens though. VCU isn’t exactly a basketball school. Butler at least has the history and is in the largest city in a basketball-crazed state. He could turn that program into a big dea (a bigger deal than it is now… meaning, a Gozaga-esque program that is ranked every year even if they don’t ever win the big one) l if he had the time.

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 22, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

One of those 2 guys (Smart or Stevens) is gonna get paid by Illinois next season

Scientists say the universe is made up of protons, neutrons, and electrons. They forgot about morons.

by Spartan D on Feb 22, 2012 4:54 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not sure that 2011 UConn qualifies as "the best team"

They had a remarkable run, truly amazing. But the fact remains, they had to run the Big East tournament just to get into the NCAAs

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Feb 22, 2012 6:49 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

That's the thing about basketball,

If you have the best player on the floor, you can win any game.

"You might as well appeal against the thunderstorm."
-William T. Sherman, the Battle of Atlanta

by Jon Ross on Feb 23, 2012 2:04 AM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say that

They were a three seed in the NCAA Tourny, they didn’t just qualify by winning the Big East.

by kjzk13 on Feb 23, 2012 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Joe Lunardi

Has seven B1G teams in the tournament and Minnesota just missing. Given his track record, I’d say the conference is doing just fine. And it is the best in basketball. Seriously, who’s better? The only one you could make an argument for is the Big East and it’s really nothing special this year.

by alacy9513 on Feb 22, 2012 11:37 AM CST reply actions  

you say that...

But, A) I would take the Big East, B) I don’t think there is a power conference, C) I would take the Kansas/Baylor/Mizzou/Iowa State/hothothot Kansas State combination over anything the B1G offers.

by Graham Filler on Feb 22, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Iowa State is nothing special, and I mean nothing.

Baylor is also in a bit of a tailspin right now.

The Big East has only 4 locks to the BIG’s 5 as of now, and the mighty ACC has but 3. The Big (solve for X) has only 6 as possibles to the BIG’s 9, with 7 being the consensus number to get in. The Big East has a bunch of possibles, but the general expectation is that they will get 8, and that’s not all that impressive when you have SIXTEEN freaking teams.

In short, you’re way too dismissive of the BIG’s upper and squishy middle. You cannot seriously argue that Wisconsin and IU are not tournament-worthy. Purdue is in if they handle the bottom-feeders. NW can still sneak in, as can Minnesota, and I would expect that one but not both will.

Listen, I’ll buy the not-dominant argument, but is there anything wrong with being the best of a good-but-not-great year? Because that’s what we have this year, and the BIG is the best of this group.

"Hey Jay, what time is it?"
"9:30"
"AND IU STILL SUCKS!"

by Boiler Bandsman on Feb 22, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

and no team wants to see Northwestern or Wisky in the tourney

Those offenses can absolutely get a team off of their game. Could make Sweet 16 run depending on the bracket.

by rogerja on Feb 22, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Iowa State also has like four B1G castoffs

Chris Allen and Korie Lucious. Also Chriss Babb (Penn State) and Royce White (Minnesota).

Which isn’t necessarily important, it’s just…. interesting.

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 22, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Each time I watch the Big East

I’m not that impressed. Their teams will bow out of the tournament early, as usual.

by lonewolf371 on Feb 22, 2012 6:17 PM CST up reply actions  

like UConn?

Oh wait..

(this make me happy on the inside. i am a bad person)

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 22, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah UConn did well

But 9 of 11 teams were gone by the Sweet 16.

by lonewolf371 on Feb 22, 2012 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

"Did well" is a bit of an undersell haha.

"You might as well appeal against the thunderstorm."
-William T. Sherman, the Battle of Atlanta

by Jon Ross on Feb 23, 2012 2:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I am referrign more to this year

and next, when I believe due to low graduation rate they aren’t allowed to participate in the tourney.

Please tell me I’m not the only person that read that.

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 23, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

I read it, they're appealing

but it’s bullshit. They’re trying to use the “the players that caused the problem aren’t here anymore” excuse

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Feb 23, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

and it could push the decision back to a time when the NCAA uses the next year’s metrics that allow them to get in.

by rogerja on Feb 23, 2012 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Jim Tressel knew about it last April.

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 23, 2012 5:07 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Former Big 12 watcher here

Kansas – always good
Baylor – has talent but can be streaky at times
Mizzou – decent program on the upswing

ISU & KSU – Benefiting from the fact that the South division is utter crap outside of Baylor

by Doc1028 on Feb 22, 2012 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Texas?

Usually decent. Down year this year but I feel like they’re usually in the mix.

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 23, 2012 2:59 AM CST up reply actions  

KSU

Benefiting from sweeping Mizzou and taking down Baylor in Waco.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 23, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

A lot of the XII is matchup-induced

Mizzou has difficulty with teams that can match them athletically, but also overpower them. Kansas has a lot of depth concerns (so does Mizzou, but guards do a better job of staying out of foul trouble than bigs, and Kansas’ game is predicated around T-Rob) and could run into serious foul trouble or get run out of the gym by a fast-break squad. Baylor has trouble with teams that are similarly talented to them, because they’re just not very good at handling on-the-ball pressure.

They’re all decent enough squads, but they don’t have the overpowering defense or ability to run out a different lineup and change up their game halfway through.

by cwel87 on Feb 24, 2012 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Want to talk about hype machines?

Let’s talk about the eternal hype the Big East somehow generates in college hoops. A solid but wholly unspectacular Syracuse team with zero collegiate stars is running that conference.

I’d be shocked if Syracuse played in the B1G this season and managed to finish in the top three. Shocked.

The Big East sucks just about every year, gets a bunch of generic, absurd, over-the-top hype, and then their top two teams lose to Michigan State in the tournament.

We’ve seen this movie before. We know how it ends.

by cwel87 on Feb 24, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

We have seen this movie

Remember ’09 when the Big East had three #1 seeds? And remember what MSU did to two of those??

by MSUDersh on Feb 25, 2012 8:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

So we can all agree that the SEC is not a power bball conference?

Thought so.

I’ll be interested to see what Kentucky can do in the tournament when they play teams with actual talent. They’ve had an easy conference road thus far.

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 22, 2012 12:21 PM CST reply actions  

Kentucky is on such a good run because

of all that SEC Meth Speeeeeeeeed. Every team can run a fast break, but none can do it as fast as an SEC team

You win with people (not named Joe Bauserman)
@BadNewsBrownell

by BuckeyeSki on Feb 22, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

It's all coming together...

Can anybody get a list of the top 25 hooptyball teams and place them on this map?

When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic

by Marshmoose on Feb 22, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Isn't the MethLab map

Usually reserved for our friends over at BHGP?

by MSUDersh on Feb 22, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Apparently

it should be reserved for those at The Crimson Quarry.

by MNWildcat on Feb 22, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

They've got enough problems

When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic

by Marshmoose on Feb 23, 2012 8:49 AM CST up reply actions  

That kind of thing should really be adjusted per capita

That said, I bet half of Michigan’s meth labs are in Allegan county

Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude

by Seer on Feb 22, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Justin Feagin

would like to endorse this statement

You win with people (not named Joe Bauserman)
@BadNewsBrownell

by BuckeyeSki on Feb 22, 2012 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

The other half in Hillsdale County

And other parts of the southern Michigan creppy Amish belt.

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 22, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Here you go

I can’t believe we’re in 2nd place to the SEC again!

by AfroDwarf on Feb 24, 2012 6:54 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

S-E-C! S-E-C! S-E-C!

what.. no chant? guys?

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 24, 2012 7:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Those SEC speedsters

still still the #1 conference using this map.

"'Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, 'If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." - Lewis Caroll, Alice Through the Looking Glass

by chitownhawkeye on Feb 22, 2012 6:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Why do you think they added Mizzou?

In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.

by Pariahwulfen on Feb 22, 2012 8:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Rooting for Notre Dame isn't normal

but on meth, it is.

Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
Yes, I am on twitter. If you have to ask, you're streets behind.

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 22, 2012 11:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Holy crap, Indiana.

Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.

Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog

Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?

by Packers3485 on Feb 23, 2012 3:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Fun with Colors

Here’s what I’m talking about. Basketball prowess = f (meth labs)

Magenta = top 10 team
Green = 11-20
Light Blue = 21-25

When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic

by Marshmoose on Feb 23, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

er... Green = top 10, pink = 11-20

When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic

by Marshmoose on Feb 23, 2012 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Wait just a minute

“New Mexico should have like 40 times the meth labs it says it does! They make good shit down there!”

-Walter White

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 23, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Florida is decent

And they pulverized them. They also beat UNC. And Kansas. And Louisville (overrated this year, but still).

The point is, I think they’re legit. Too bad they play in a bullshit conference. But honestly, they would probably win the B1G this year too.

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 22, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

They're definitely legit.

Calipari’s got them playing defense, too. I hope they don’t win it all; I wouldn’t be able to stand it.

"The guts carry the feet, not the feet the guts."
- Cervantes

by crusader34 on Feb 22, 2012 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not saying Kentucky isn't better than OSU, but if OSU played UK's schedule

I think it’s really conceivable that we’d have only one loss (IU) too. OSU pounded that same Florida team, and also beat Duke by 22, and Duke = UNC basically. The Kansas loss doesn’t count without Sullinger. IMO, OSU playing Kentucky’s schedule is a one loss thing too.

"You might as well appeal against the thunderstorm."
-William T. Sherman, the Battle of Atlanta

by Jon Ross on Feb 23, 2012 2:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm honestly not sure what I think

I mean, SEC schedule, sure. But I’m sure MSU and UM also run the SEC table this year if you swapped with UK, too. (Although I wouldn’t say an 81-74 win is “pounding” Florida. UK beat them by like 25.)

But now that I look at your nonconference schedule again I realize that you guys have played some pretty tough teams, so I wouldn’t wager against you faring pretty well playing UK’s nonconference slate.

Really, though, it’s tough to play the “if” game, especially when talking about playing KU sans-Sullinger. You MIGHT beat them at full strength, but you’d never know until you played. Maybe he has a bad game like he did against MSU (I mean, he scored 17 but was TERRIBLE from the field that day). It’s hard to play that game. Especially considering UK beat KU by 10 with both at full strength.

Anyway, I would like to believe that all three of the B1G’s top-tier teams could conceivably run the table in the SEC. I don’t think the same could be said for ANYONE in the SEC, even UK.

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 23, 2012 3:17 AM CST up reply actions  

I just realized I contradicted myself there

So I will clarify: UK could win the B1G but I certainly don’t think they would run the table like they seem to in the SEC way too often. That’s what I meant to say.

It’s too hard to win on the road in the B1G. Mostly because B1G fans actually care about basketball. Even at Northwestern!

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 23, 2012 3:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Florida blows

Kentucky’s good, but they’re not unbeatable. They’re probably the team most likely to win the title if it were handicapped prior to the seeds and brackets being drawn up, but not by much.

by cwel87 on Feb 24, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

What brought the B1G up was the non-con wins and SOS overall

Of course every conference can look good when only playing conference games, but when there was games to win in the preseason, the B1G took care of business. 8-4 in the B1G/ACC Challenge, Indiana taking down #1 Kentucky, OSU over #8 Florida and #4 Duke, Michigan over #8 Memphis, etc. I think what matters most is the B1G didn’t lose any bad games early on, and we’re still riding by on that.

All that said, with injuries and spotty play, I think the middle of the B1G are going to have a tough time getting into the dance. Minnesota and Illinois haven’t done themselves any favors over the past week by giving up on must-win games.

When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic

by Marshmoose on Feb 22, 2012 12:24 PM CST reply actions  

Why are we completely dismissing Wiscy and IU when assessing strength of the conference?

You know, the ones that Lunardi has as a 4 and 5 seed respectively. No other conference can boast 5 teams in the top 5 seed lines. The Big East is closest with their fifth (Georgetown) a 6 and they have 4 more teams. I guess it depends on your definition of “best.” If its conference with team(s) with best chance to win a championship I guess you may be right though I really like the look of MSU and OSU. Personally, “best” to me means most depth and I think with down years by some traditionally strong programs affecting other conferences depth (Pitt, UConn, Villanova, Texas, UCLA, Arizona, the entire ACC except for Duke/UNC, etc.), the B1G is the “best” (i.e., deepest).

And as for Wisconsin’s inability to score the basketball, this is not proven up using tempo-free stats (e.g. KenPom per possession, opponent adjusted stats). They have a KenPom adjusted ORating of 111.4 good for 31st in the country. I get that its not pretty (at all) but I’m tired of people assuming the offense is awful because Wiscy scores efficiently (i.e., slow) as opposed to quantity. Wiscy wins because their offense is okay and their defense is elite (3rd best according to KenPom).

If you are going to pick on Wisconsin at least use something supportable. Its not that hard. Call them unathetic white farmboys or something.

by kmals on Feb 22, 2012 1:19 PM CST reply actions  

I agree with you that it’s foolhardy to judge offense based on points per game. On the other hand, Wisconsin’s offense, even by tempo free standards, is a bit off compared to previous seasons. Certainly, #31 in the nation in adjusted efficiency is good, but 1.11 is the Badgers’ worst in Pom’s adjusted efficiency since 2006, and Wisconsin is averaging only 1.02 points per possession (#8 in the conference) in Big Ten games, which is a huge dropoff from nearly 1.20 ppp in conference games last year.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

Follow me on Twitter and Facebook

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Feb 22, 2012 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep. Fair points. My comment is somewhat driven out of historical frustration.

I was much better positioned to make this argument pretty much at any time in the previous five years (save 2009) as Wiscy had very good tempo-free offenses then (#2 overall last season). Although okay over the course of the season, since conference play started Wiscy has struggled in streches on offense.

I just hate the reflexive they score in the 50’s-60’s they must suck at life knee jerk which is very common on the interwebz.

by kmals on Feb 22, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, I share your position on that. Over the years “Wisconsin sucks on offense” and “Northwestern is awesome on defense” have been the biggest tempo-driven myths in Big Ten basketball. It just so happens that this year the myth of Wisconsin as defense-oriented is true.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

Follow me on Twitter and Facebook

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Feb 22, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey guys, we beat USF

We totally helped *

*(Okay, no we didn’t. Sry)

She asked me who I wanted to have a three some with. I said "Why not Zoidberg?"

by ICEICETHATGUY13 on Feb 22, 2012 4:42 PM CST reply actions  

We're going to fire our coach, so there's that...

Always check the words with the red squiggly line. They mean you probably screwed up.

Author @ Off Tackle Empire

Next step, Twitter... @KennardHusker

by KennardHusker on Feb 22, 2012 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

If there's any hope for Nebrasketball, that is.

Play for the love of the game. A Cornhusker through feast or famine. That's the Nebraska way.

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Feb 23, 2012 7:35 PM CST up reply actions  

hate to break it to you, but

By objective measures the B10 is the best conference this year.

As for dominance, nobody claimed that the B10 has been the dominant MBB conference over the past 10-20 years. Why would you conflate those two things?

However, to answer your Final Four point:
MSU – 2010, 2009, 2005, 2001, 2000, 1999
OSU – 2007, 1999
IL – 2005, 1989
IN – 2002, 1992
WI – 2000
MN – 1997
MI – 1993, 1992, 1989

That’s 17 teams since 1989 (23 years), and 7 different schools for a conference of 11 (started as 10). Over that time 22 teams from only 4 ACC schools made it (Duke, UNC, MD, GT). The B10 hasn’t been winning titles, but the Final 4 record is pretty good. It’s also very diverse, 7 of 11 schools.

by br27 on Feb 23, 2012 12:24 AM CST reply actions  

Correction

MN – 1997

/nothingtoseehere

When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic

by Marshmoose on Feb 23, 2012 8:48 AM CST up reply actions  

As a counter to Graham's point, it still counts

MN can’t brag about it, but the B10 did get a Final Four berth.

by br27 on Feb 23, 2012 8:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Correction:

Ohio State – 1999

Nope!

Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
Yes, I am on twitter. If you have to ask, you're streets behind.

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 23, 2012 9:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Boban Savovic

HELP IS ON THE WAY

~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST

by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 23, 2012 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Like I said above

It’s valid as a counter to Graham’s point.

by br27 on Feb 23, 2012 8:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you are getting too angst-ridden about an SI expert who is simply being very conservative. I think his only “locks” are teams that could lose all of their remaining games and still make it. IU and Wisconsin might not quite be to that point, but it would take a very improbable chain of events for either IU, Wisconsin, or Purdue to miss the Tournament. Wisconsin could miss if they lose out, but does anyone think the Badgers will lose at home to Minnesota or Illinois, let alone both? IU has enough quality wins that the Hoosiers probably would be in even if they lose out, and at worst need to win one of their next four (a regular season game or a BTT game against PSU, Nebraska, or Illinois). Purdue needs to either a) beat Penn State at home or b) win its first BTT game, but probably not even both (and probably will do both, anyway). Illinois is in free fall now, but they are a talented team with wins over MSU, OSU, and Gonzaga.

In any event, the number of NCAA teams is a poor measure of conference quality. There have been years in which the Big Ten had the most bids, but nowhere near the best conference top to bottom. The Big Ten is fine this year. MSU and OSU are legitimate championship contenders. But what really sets the conference apart right now is its depth. The years of Penn State and Northwestern beating only each other are long gone. Look at the supposed “dregs” this year. Nebraska beat IU and took UW to the wire on the road. Penn State curb-stomped Purdue and beat Illinois when the Illini were playing pretty well. Iowa stomped both IU and Michigan and won at Wisconsin. It’s a cliche, but there are no gimmes in the Big Ten this year.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

Follow me on Twitter and Facebook

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Feb 23, 2012 9:04 AM CST reply actions  

Are you susprised?

"I believe in a good kick in the ass. This— I believe. " -- Walker Percy

I tweet about stuff sometimes @jackhitts.

by jhitts08 on Feb 23, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Because annoying responses like this aren't likely to keep them away.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 23, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Light ball busting.

He seems to take it well. Others think it’s annoying.

by rogerja on Feb 23, 2012 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

It's the same lame joke every time though.

There were 8 posts written about Indiana on OTE all of 2011. It’s silly to think that would attract Indiana fans to the site.

"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"

by U-God on Feb 23, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools


CONSIDER THEM ROLLED.


Managers

M_small Graham Filler

Cigar_small Jonathan Franz

Bama_hawkeye_small Bama Hawkeye

Ted_logo_small Ted Glover

Editors

Wrigleymarquee_small Hilary Lee

Authors

Small Chadnudj

Img-20101223-00043_small JDMill

Afudyfycaae-oai_jpg_large_small MSULaxer27

Small Paterno Ave

Smokecrop_small babaoreally

Sherman_sea_1868_small KennardHusker