State of the B1G: Expansion
Welcome to OTE's State of the B1G 2012, where we will be examining the B1G conference from as many angles as the twisted minds of our crack staff of writers can muster up.
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One of the most discussed topics over the last year and a half or so has been college football expansion. Remember, this all started because B1G Commissioner Big Jim Delany said he thought the B1G might be considering, at some point in the future, possibly, maybe, expanding to a 12th team.
All Hell ensued, at the maelstrom is still continuing to this day.
The Big XII conference appeared to be going the way of the USFL, the SEC was looking at 4 to 6 teams, depending on which rumors you chose to believe, and the B1G and PAC-10 were rumored to be wooing Texas and triggering, along with the SEC, the college football equivalent of Armageddon--16 team super-conferences that would envelop and swallow the Big XII and Big East whole, muahahahaha.
All because Jim Delany farted the word 'expansion'.
So where are we in terms of conference expansion, where are other conferences, and what teams should...or what teams must..the B1G go after to stay at the forefront of this rapidly changing landscape?
First things first about expansion--I'm not getting into what other conferences are doing or are rumored to be doing, because honestly I can't keep up with it, with a couple exceptions. I do know the SEC expanded to 14 teams, adding Texas A and M and that bastion of Confederacy in Missouri. The Big XII is still around, and should be back at twelve teams soon...at least I think so. The ACC is adding teams that are geographically closer to most teams, which is better than the Big East, which has a conference footprint that literally will go from coast to coast when it's all said and done.
And the Mountain West and Conference USA might merge. Yikes.
So when you look at conference expansion through that prism, and then look what the B1G has done in adding 'just' Nebraska (sorry, Northwestern fans), at first glance it seems like Delany took his shot and missed his target.
But actually, just the opposite has taken place. Delany and the B1G are in the driver's seat, and they probably won't even add another team.
There's no need to.
See, once again Jim Delany has been playing chess while the rest of the conference commissioners have been playing checkers, even the SEC. Texas A and M and Missouri are nice additions to the SEC, but they're not earth shattering, and they didn't really move the needle in terms of upping the ante. The SEC paced college football by expanding to twelve teams and developing a conference championship game back in the early '90's, but Missouri and A and M was uninspired. You add Texas and Oklahoma you've got my attention, but Missouri and Aggie? Meh.
Delany and the B1G have been setting the pace since he announced that the conference was looking at expansion, and he's just about lapped everybody else. First it was developing a conference network. No one thought it would work, especially ESPN. But now ESPN thinks it's such a good idea, they even went one step further and developed a TV network for just one school...which has been a colossal bust up until this point. They aren't carried by any of the major cable providers in or out of Texas, nor are they on Dish or DirecTV, but you can find the BTN just about anywhere in America, from Key West to Seattle, and the conference is almost to the point of being able to print their own money in terms of profit.
Then it was the addition of Nebraska, throwing the Big XII in to a tailspin it really has yet to recover from. The financial windfall that Big Ten schools will see by the addition of Nebraska caused Texas to grab as much money as it could in the aforementioned Longhorn Network, and it placed the Big XII in a situation more tenuous than the Al Swearengen-Seth Bullock alliance on Deadwood. The SEC reacted by adding two middling programs that really do nothing for either football or basketball (well, Mizzou has a pretty good basketball team, but does anyone outside of Kentucky care about SEC basketball?), and Jim Delany was already three moves ahead of everyone else.
And once the expansion and realignment started to settle down (and you can make an argument that it really hasn't), Delany launched another bomb, which is really not fully appreciated yet--he virtually stopped any more expansion in its tracks, just as quickly as he started it.
There can be no super-conferences without the B1G and PAC-12 particiaption, and this agreement assures there won't be, because there's no need for it now, at least from the perspective of Larry Scott and Jim Delany. And if those two conferences aren't going to the 16 team Armageddon, why would guys like Mike Slive keep adding teams, making it more difficult for them to get to some once and future mythical playoff or BCS National Championship.
With the PAC-12/B1G partnership, Delany now has the best of both worlds--marquee games across multiple sports, better TV revenue for his network because of those games, yet no conference expansion with teams that really don't fit into the geography or culture of the B1G and dilute the product of the conference.
When all of this began a couple of years ago, I have to admit I was kind of fired up about a 14 or 16 team B1G conference, but after looking at the way other conferences are starting to form and change, 12 teams is about as big as a conference can get before it starts to lose its identity. The one thing I really admired about the SEC is the quality of football it plays within such a generally confined geographical footprint--heck, that's what made the B1G King for the just about the entire 20th century and up until the early 2000's.
With the addition of Missouri and Texas A and M, I think the SEC is going to lose a little bit of their identity. Will it be enough of a schism to drive the SEC towards what the Big XII is currently undergoing? No, of course not. They'll be making a lot of money with their TV contracts, and as long as they keep fielding great, competitive football, they'll still be at or near the top. Even at 14 teams, the SEC should be fine.
But look at the ACC, the Big East, and so on. When you look at the variety of teams that will be in these conferences and the geographic footprint they'll have once the dust settles, what you're left with isn't a conference. It's a bunch of disparate schools joining arms in the ocean to keep from drowning.
Eventually, these hybrid-conferences will collapse under their own weight, with not enough money to go around, and I suspect this realignment of mid-major and major wannabe's will continue for the next several years, maybe even into the next decade.
So where does that leave Notre Dame? Frankly, who cares? Delany has set up things up that Notre Dame would be a nice addition, but not a necessity. Once again, Delany dances to no ones tune--they dance to his, and that holds true here. With a 12 team conference fit into a nice, geographic footprint, the B1G doesn't NEED any team to thrive as a league, but with all the realignment yet to come, Notre Dame might need a safe port in the storm. And there will be no safer port than the B1G in three or four years.
And if that happens, then--and only then--will Delany offer membership. On his terms, in his time.
So as we but a bow on this, the B1G sits positioned stronger than any other conference--their own highly profitable network, 12 stable teams, and a multi sport partnership with a conference every bit as stable and ascending as the B1G.
No expansion necessary.
Consider them rolled, America. Consider them rolled.
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No. Never.
They should just change their name to “The Big Left Overs”
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 8, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Kind of, actually
They had a decent conference before Miami and company bolted. But with their last really good team heading to the ACC in WVU, it’s nothing more than a coast to coast Mountain West conference.
Terrible.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Like I said
I can’t keep track of them. There’s too many. And unless it affects the B1G, I don’t care.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
I feel bad for big east basketball
More teams means it’s a bigger clusterfuck. It’s a mess. My big east hoops team will keep having a harder time now.
This is totally OT in a big ten football forum, but screw the big east football wise. it’s a crappy conference
by LincolnParkWildcat on Feb 8, 2012 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
Just out of curiosity, you don’t think that getting a strong foothold into Texas (read: Dallas, Houston and San Antonio television markets and of course, recruiting) is a big deal? Yes, I know there is a huge number of Razorback fans in Dallas, but still, my question stands.
Also, while I’m here:
….once again Jim Delany has been playing chess while the rest of the conference commissioners have been playing checkers, even the SEC.
I’m sure Delany is a great conference commissioner and all, but really? Pretty sure that Mike Slive (SEC) is the most respected in the business. So at best, it’s a wash. At best.
Texas A and M and Missouri are nice additions to the SEC, but they’re not earth shattering, and they didn’t really move the needle in terms of upping the ante.
See my very first question.
The SEC reacted by adding two middling programs that really do nothing for either football or basketball (well, Mizzou has a pretty good basketball team, but does anyone outside of Kentucky care about SEC basketball?)
The moves were not just about football or basketball. But you should have known that. I mean, y’all are three moves ahead and playing chess right?
As to part-two of the sentence, no. Kentucky is pretty much it. Though Arkansas gets pretty into it.
With the addition of Missouri and Texas A and M, I think the SEC is going to lose a little bit of their identity.
I think so as well. If we (SEC) don’t reach the BCS National Championship Game (or say, lose it — which let’s be honest here, has never happened to a non-SEC team), some of that identity, I guess aurora of invincibility will be gone.
As for the identity you’re talking about, you’re the first one I’ve seen mention it. So we shall how it goes. For the record though, I’m not concerned at all.
Editor at Alligator Army.
As to recruiting
If this were 20, or even 10 years ago, I would say yes. But I don’t think South Carolina will get any more of a foothold in Texas than Nebraska does in Pennsylvania, for example. And with the way modern technology is, big schools from any conference can be competitive to top recruits nationally, regardless of the state. In Texas, teams like LSU, Florida, and Alabama will still be standing in line behind UT, A and M, Arkansas and Oklahoma.
We’ll agree to disagree about Slive more respected than Delany—what Delany did with the BTN has set the bar at an almost impossibly high standard, and every conference commissioner, Slife included, has been looking for ways to match the amount of money that the BTN is bringing in to B1G schools. I’m not saying Slife isn’t respected—that would be foolish on my part. He’d developed the SEC brand into a juggernaut, but for all of your on the field dominance at the top of your conference, you’re still not drawing the money like the B1G has in what has been a time where B1G football has been two steps behind your conference.
Again, as to moving into Texas and Missouri, it didn’t really move the needle nationally. Now, had you grabbed Texas and Oklahoma, like I mentioned earlier, Slife is the King, hands down. But Texas A and M is a program that people outside of Texas A and M feel is always over rated, and Missouri football is just okay. Will recruits be swayed to go to Texas A and M by going to College Station and watching teams like Alabama come to town? No, because teams like LSU and Alabama will kick A and M’s ass and that kid will probably end up going to UT.
Which is why I think the SEC is always going to have a problem getting their very own network off the ground. Your football is second to none, but it’s all cyclical, and eventually you guys will be on par or below the rest of the major conferences, just like you have been in the past. And your basketball, unlike the B1G, isn’t enough to carry the network from New Year’s through August.
I know you don’t like to hear it, but the B1G has strong, nationally relevant programs in football, men and women’s basketball, and sports like wrestling and ice hockey have a very strong regional appeal that allows Delany to sell the BTN and make money. Outside of Kentucky and Missouri basketball, the SEC doesn’t.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
LSU does above-average in Texas. They get their pick of the litter if they choose to do so. I will say for Florida though, we aren’t concerned about Texas at all. But for teams like LSU (who like I said, does well there already), Arkansas (who has always drawn from Texas), Mississippi State, Ole Miss and the like … adding the Texas market is HUGE.
In fairness to Slive, with a “v” not a “f” … Roy Kramer (the previous commissioner) was the one that got the SEC rolling. In terms of money, the big name schools (Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee) get big-time money by selling their other tier rights. All the schools in the SEC do, but in Florida’s case, they get $10 million a year by selling those rights to SunSports/Fox Sports alone, which doesn’t even count the other stuff they sell to smaller companies.
But we don’t need to “move the needle” as you say. We didn’t have to. The SEC is as of right now, the best athletic conference in the country. The other teams are playing catch up. If the Big 10 (or B1G or whatever y’all call it now) can put that money to use, than maybe one day they will catch up to the SEC.
And you really want to compare other sports besides football? Really?
Baseball: The SEC has won the last three College World Series Championships and had teams lose in the final last year (which was an all-SEC CWS), 2008 and 2005.
Women’s basketball: Tennessee. Enough said.
Gymnastics: A team from the SEC has won 6 out of the last 7 national championships.
The SEC has won National Championships in swimming, equestrian, golf, track and tennis all last year or recently multiple times.
Basically, the Big 10 isn’t the only conference that does well in regional sports. The SEC like those above, have just the same amount of nationally relevant programs as well. Those would sell just as well as the Big 10 does with theirs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Conference#National_team_championships
As for New Year’s through August, please. SEC Football is a gold mine. Plus, in that time, you’ve got recruiting, spring football and numerous other things that could eat up the remained of the time.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Then why isn't there an SEC Network?
Honest question. I know you guys have a great deal with CBS and ESPN, but the goal is ultimately a conference specific network. With all the regional sports that would do well, where is it?
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Who said the goal is a TV network? Why would we worry about that now with the deals with CBS and ESPN?
It’s not a top priority. Now granted, maybe it will be in the future, but as of right now … there is no pressing need for one.
Editor at Alligator Army.
The goal is cash, and TV networks are the golden goose
Seeing how the Longhorn Network has evolved and spending some time in SEC country, I’m constantly amazed by why this hasn’t happened already. It’s kind of hard to believe, but I think they’d be able to fill a 24/7 network with Football and Baseball shows without too much trouble.
TEEVEE NASHNUL CHAPPEEENS, PAWWWWLLLL!
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
Of course they’d fill a 24/7 network very easily. It could just be about football and they wouldn’t have a problem at all.
Editor at Alligator Army.
This is a self-contradiction.
Silve claims to have looked at starting a conference network but it didn’t make financial sense.
This leaves 3 options:
1. Silve was correct and telling the truth… in which case the SEC can’t economically support a conference network.
2. Silve was wrong… in which case Silve made a screw up of momentous proportions.
3. I suppose you can put forth some conspiracy theory that Silve was lying… just make up some more sheit.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
What makes it good?
When an article opens with “Here at MrSEC.com, we like to lay out scenarios for you” there isn’t the expectation it is concerned with facts and backed assertions any more than you are – it lives up to the expectation.
Silve claims to have looked at starting a conference network but it didn’t make financial sense.
This leaves 3 options:
1. Silve was correct and telling the truth… in which case the SEC couldn’t economically support a conference network.
2. Silve was wrong… in which case Silve made a screw up of momentous proportions.
3. I suppose you can put forth some conspiracy theory that Silve was lying… just make up some more sheit.
Which one do you believe? it is not a trick question.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
True, but would it draw big ratings outside the Southeast?
The BTN has the advantage of larger alumni bases than most SEC schools, and a footprint that has a large percentage of the major TV markets. Outside of Atlanta and Florida, I don’t know if that holds true for the SEC footprint.
To get the cash, you have to have access to TV’s, more TV’s means more viewers, more viewers means higher advertising rates and revenue. I don’t know that a lot of people in the Southeast care enough about baseball, women’s basketball, or gymnastics to make a network profitable.
FlaGators is right in that they have plenty of content to fill a 24 hour network, I don’t dispute that. What I wonder about is whether or not a lot of that content would be appealing to anyone outside the SEC footprint. If I were to use the latest BCS title game as a measuring stick, my initial reaction would be no.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
The SEC footprint is big enough to get the ratings that they would want, I would think. Of course you always want the biggest (that’s just natural), but still to hit numbers that would suffice I think it is possible.
Just going by the Nielsen Local Ratings, the SEC has in the Top 50:
Dallas (No. 5)
Atlanta (No. 8)
Houston (No. 10)
Tampa-St. Pete (No. 13)
Miami (No. 16)
Orlando (No. 19)
St. Louis (No. 21)
Nashville (No. 29)
Kansas City (No. 31)
Asheville-Greenville (No. 36)
San Antonio (No. 37)
West Palm (No. 38)
Birmingham (No. 40)
Jacksonville (No. 47)
Now obviously, each of those markets has various degrees of SEC involved, but still … it’s on the TV and people are going to watch it.
Editor at Alligator Army.
By comparison...
…the B1G has in the top 50:
Chicago (No. 3)
Philadelphia (No. 4)
Detroit (No. 11)
Minneapolis-St. Paul (No. 15)
Cleveland-Akron (No. 17)
Pittsburgh (No. 23)
Indianapolis (No. 25)
Columbus OH (No. 32)
Cincinnati (No. 34)
Milwaukee (No. 35)
Grand Rapids – Kalamazoo – Battle Creek (No. 39)
Harrisburg-Lancaster (No. 41)
And that’s just looking at states with actual B1G teams. St. Louis (No. 21) is a B1G city thanks to Illinois, Nebraska has reach into Denver (No. 18) and Kansas City (No. 31).
Furthermore, I know my parents on their basic cable system get BTN in the Tampa-St. Pete-Sarasota market in Florida (No. 13), and I imagine something similar happens in the rest of Florida (Miami, Orlando, West Palm, Jacksonville) given the large number of snowbirds/retirees with B1G connections.
And don’t forget about New York City (No. 1) which has a huge B1G alumni base and connections to Penn State, or Washington D.C. (No.9), or Los Angeles (No. 2)…..the B1G has a pretty wide expansion, frankly, and one that dwarfs the SEC’s reach.
And a lot of the Big 10 cities are declining in population, while the ones in the SEC’s footprint are growing.
Dallas (up 0.8% in 2010) vs. Chicago (minus 6.9% in 2010)
Atlanta (up 4.9% in 2010) vs. Philly ( up 0.6% in 2010)
Houston (up 7.5% in 2010) vs. Detroit ( minus 19.8% in 2010)
Tampa (up 14.8% in 2010) vs Minneapolis (broke even)
As for the rest … do Cleveland is down (trust me, I know it is, I’m an Indians fan), Columbus … it just goes on.
Sure some of those numbers are snowbirds, transplants and all that crap down there that change the numbers … but still.
All I’m saying is that the SEC’s footprint is big enough to support a national network and not just one in the southeast.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Yeah, but at what cost?
Most people from the Midwest retain their true colors, especially sports fans who would want a sports package.
BTN is also on Time Warner in New York...
where Michigan is the most popular college football program.
Very nice that Dallas is growing by less than 1% or so. I’m sure that it might catch Chicago or NYC some day….
by Chicago Spartan on Feb 17, 2012 1:13 AM CST up reply actions
The great oversight in population shift
is that loyalties generally stay the same. There are quite literally thousands of Iowa fans in Arizona and Texas who have never lived in that state. If a family from Pennsylvania moves to Orlando, my bet is that it is many generations (if at all) before the loyalties shift to SEC schools. Hell, how much popular are the Yankees and Red Sox than the Rays in Florida?
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Feb 24, 2012 2:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Just going by baseball
my grandfather grew up in Brooklyn and was a Dodgers fan until the day he died. It was enough that my mother and her sisters all have a rooting interest in them, even though they grew up in Cincitucky.
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
by Pariahwulfen on Feb 25, 2012 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
Landing Mizzou does not land the SEC Kansas City.
That city belongs to the Big 12.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
It doesn’t have to be all-SEC. But I’d be willing to be that there will be people watching Mizzou. Who are now in the SEC.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Yes, it does.
It doesn’t have to be all-SEC.
Given that Missouri population is average by most conference standards, it does have to be for, all practical purposes, virtually all SEC to be worth the addition.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
And I’m sure the people in high places looked at the KC ratings for Mizzou and what not when making the decision.
The crown jewel of adding Mizzou in terms of cities was St. Louis though, because while a smaller city, it has a metro-population of roughly 800,000 more than the KC metro-area.
Editor at Alligator Army.
And a great deal of it belongs to Illinois.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
by U-God on Feb 10, 2012 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Adding an 800K market doesn't make a dent.
tOSU claims 500K alumni alone.
Sorry, but 1 city does is not a crown jewel in major conference expansion.
Would you like some more tokens, and a few more chances to make sheit up?
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Making stuff up? Do you even understand what we’re talking about?
Ohio State was the school that had a rule where if you graduated HS in the state of Ohio you were automatically accepted.
So if they have that many…yeah.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Please enter 4 tokens and try again.
Making stuff up?
Yes – noted elsewhere as it occurred.
Ohio State was the school that had a rule where if you graduated HS in the state of Ohio you were automatically accepted.So?
This doesn’t make 800K a sizable addition to a network.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
You’re assuming people in the Texas cities care about Texas A&M, Texas yes, heck Oklahome (for Dallas) yes, A&M, not so much. Sure you’ll be on the CBS and ESPN, which I guess goes toward building the SEC brand, but the money is in cable networks – which is why ESPN was willing to pay $300 million for a Longhorn Network. That has the potential to make nearly 9 figures a year.
Put another way – the ESPN package costs a cable household just under $5. Why not charge each cable household $1 for an SEC Channel, instead of getting what amounts to leftovers (though a lot of leftovers) from ESPN and local cahnnels. That’s gold, Jerry.
That’s what they said about Arkansas and South Carolina back in 1992. Look at them now…
Editor at Alligator Army.
Apples and Oranges
Both are the big dog schools in those states (apologies to Clemson recruiting classes). Texas A&M, despite their egos, is and always will be second fiddle to Texas.
Right. But if you think that A&M is lacking the large fanbase, you’re missing out.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Never said that
They’re too spread out and not concentrated in enough urban areas to really matter in the grand scheme of things. If they were, there would be an Aggie Network in Texas.
TA&M was a solid addition...
…even as the 2nd team in the state, its large campus (which means large alumni base) coupled with large state population makes it among the few teams of the dozen or so listed by Silve that made sense.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
doe4sn't counteract the face that everytime i see their logo i read it as ATM
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 10, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Reminds me of the FSU logo.
Who looks like a sad Native-American who has had to sneeze for about 50 years.
Editor at Alligator Army.
I'll see that everytime now.
Thank you.
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 10, 2012 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
Typically, Texas fans are in the city and aTm fans are in the country
When we get the Pig, the Jug and the Axe, we'll have one hell of a picnic
OK, that's acutally wrong.
I’m married into an A&M family. Regardless of what you think of him, Rick Perry is a pretty vocal A&M alum. Likewise are many in the ultra-powerful energy sector in Houston and (to a lessor extent) Dallas. People focus too much on the “A” of A&M. It’s the engineering side that has garnered the Aggies some really powerful backers over the years. Their on-field production may be sub-par, but don’t doubt the Aggies popularity and influence; that’s a school with some serious clout.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Feb 24, 2012 3:04 AM CST up reply actions
There's a reason this comic exists

In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
by Pariahwulfen on Feb 25, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
three of the top ten is not going to get it done.
It is important to get onto basic cable in all the top markets. Not to mention I doubt the strong interest in the Dallas/Houston markets, plus Atlanta is notoriously fickle.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Feb 10, 2012 7:46 AM CST up reply actions
Obviously there are varying levels of how much a city will care. But I’m sure I could look at the cities in which the Big 10 is listed in above and find a few that wouldn’t care.
And just an FYI, there are a lot of Gator alumni in the Miami area.
Editor at Alligator Army.
I assume you mean the states with B1G teams...
…and while you could, you would hard pressed to form a decent list.
Iowa splits the State with Iowa State – not sure which has the lions share of the fan base.
PSU may not have Pittsburgh, but it certainly has the Lion’s share of the state.
For all practical purposes
the tOSU fan base + Cincy fan base = tOSU fan base
NDs fan base is not isolated to a particular ctty or region.
Elsewhere the B1G programs do not face competition from other majors in their state.
I’m sure I could look at the cities in which the Big 10 is listed in above and find a few that wouldn’t care.Knock yourself out – it is a finite list so it shouldn’t be difficult, nd you can start with Pittsburgh, so all you need to do is make up reasons for 2 more and you have a few.
And just an FYI, there are a lot of Gator alumni in the Miami area.There’s a lot of B1G alumni in the state of Florida, but this doesn’t translate to caring about B1G football.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
it's not the goal
the goal of the conference all along has been the brand
our contracts with CBS and SEC cover all the bases we want so it hasn’t been a goal
the driving force behind everything the SEC office does is to promote itself as the best on field product over and over again
you think that ESPN contract was just for putting games on the TV?
we don’t just want to be the best football conference, which we are, or the best basketball conference, which we aren’t, or the best baseball confernece, which we are
we want the talking heads to say it again and again ad nauseum
the money will take care of itself
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
Stache pic upgraded to Championship mode
by Wallacewade04 on Feb 9, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
Fair point, and that works for now
But the pendulum is going to swing back, it always does. What happens when the on the field product isn’t the best?
That’s why I think Delany has set the B1G up perfectly. The conference has been pretty average for several years now, but they’re pulling in more money than anyone else. When that changes, the amount of money that the B1G schools coule potentially pull in might dwarf everyone else.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
the pendulum will swing back
but so what?
we cashed in when were hot and got both feet in deep with ESPN the 24/7 sports-meth network – they are going to be pumping out pro-SEC sentiments regardless
they are creating SEC specific documentaries for Bear’s sake
and you know what brand name really helps with? Getting top athletes to believe the best destination is in the SEC – and you might have good alumni base but guess who lives where we live?
look, we are not doubting that your man has you in good position he’s been in the business as long as anyone and has made great strides to set up the Big Ten for future success, if you’ve been around since 89 you’re doing something right
but to suggest that he’s playing chess while others are playing checkers is just wrong
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
Stache pic upgraded to Championship mode
by Wallacewade04 on Feb 9, 2012 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
and I just realized we are having a chicken before the egg argument
“Big Ten makes money creates Success!”
“SEC has Success creates money!”
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
Stache pic upgraded to Championship mode
by Wallacewade04 on Feb 9, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Yeah, I can agree with that
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Yet the B1G has had an entire network promoting the B1G
since 2007, doing the very thing ESPN is just getting around to. When somebody else becomes the next big thing, ESPN will cozy up to them.
I’ll take the position the B1G is in.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
by Ted Glover on Feb 9, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But not everybody watches the Big 10 Network for their general sports fix. Most sports fans watch ESPN (whether they like it or not).
Editor at Alligator Army.
YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT NATIONAL BRANDING?
kids in Phoenix are sporting Bama gear!
What you know about that?
Also if you are in Arizona and you know these people please inform the authorities
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
Stache pic upgraded to Championship mode
by Wallacewade04 on Feb 9, 2012 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
and there aren't people in every state wearing OSU, PSU, scUM gear?
HELP IS ON THE WAY
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by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 9, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
I was making a joke
the people in the link wearing the Alabama gear were holding up a gas station for an 18 pack of beer
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
Stache pic upgraded to Championship mode
by Wallacewade04 on Feb 9, 2012 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah, what you did there...I see it
Yeah, let’s not get into a ‘mugshots or video footage of people committing crime in your teams gear’ contest. Too many OSU fans that just do stupid shit on camera.
//doublefacepalm.jpg
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
same here.
I just don’t have surveillance shots to really play along as well.
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 9, 2012 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
I'm quite sure there are cogent points in there.
But this poetic, stanza-based SEC writing style makes my head hurt. My brain apparently does not operate at SEC-speed.
I'm at work haha
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
Stache pic upgraded to Championship mode
by Wallacewade04 on Feb 9, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Apparently not...
the money will take care of itself
When the SEC signed their ESPN contract, it put the SEC well ahead in shared revenue.
That was short lived as they soon dropped to 2nd when the BTN took off.
They will soon be 3rd behind the PAC.
They are barely out pacing the Big 12, and might drop behind them when the Big 12 renews the other half of their broadcast contract.
…and the SEC is well over a decade away from renewing…
Silve sold the conference rights for a bag of magical beans.
He was number chasing – in this case, an average of $20 Million per year which required too long a time span.
Silve sold too much… he could haves held back a few rights to keep a conference network option viable without hitting the broadcast revenue appreciably
…for too long… the average per year isn’t all that great when you look at the time span
…for too little. the SEC rights were worth much, much more than Silve got
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
CBS has Tier 1 rights and ESPN has Tier 2 rights. The individual schools are responsible for their Tier 3 rights.
Editor at Alligator Army.
...and PI = 3.1415926...both are of equal relevance to the topic.
What you define as ’Tier 3" is the leavins of the broadcast contracts – they could air every event and leave no tier 3 rights if they desired – obviously these are of nominal value.
Where tier 3 has value is when the broadcast networks are prevented from having options to everything – reference the B1G, PAC, and Big 12 (opening the possibility for the Longhorn network).
…you will have no more luck using sophistry than just making sheit up, as neither counters the claim…
Silve sold the conference rights for a bag of magical beans.He was number chasing – in this case, an average of $20 Million per year which required too long a time span.
Silve sold too much… he could haves held back a few rights to keep a conference network option viable without hitting the broadcast revenue appreciably
…for too long… the average per year isn’t all that great when you look at the time span
…for too little. the SEC rights were worth much, much more than Silve got
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Purdue absolutely dominates Texas in recruiting.
See… I can make sheit up too!
LSU does above-average in Texas. They get their pick of the litter if they choose to do so.Homers say the damnedest things.
Of Texas recruits holding offers from both LSU and UT, LSU signed 6 since 2002, UT signed 9 in 2010 alone – hardly an indication to support they are getting the “Pick of the litter”
the big name schools (Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee) get big-time money by selling their other tier rights. All the schools in the SEC do, but in Florida’s case, they get $10 million a year by selling those rights to SunSports/Fox Sports alone, which doesn’t even count the other stuff they sell to smaller companiesIt was difficult to chase down before, but if you look at a breakout of the numbers, most of this revenue comes from advertising rights (stadium signs, programs, etc.) and not 3rd tier event broadcasting. This is not comparable to the BTN alone, which doesn’t include media advertising rights.
I do not fault you for this – they group it under the misleading heading “Media rights” and descriptions are generally misleading when this is presented as a counter to conference networks. On the other hand, maybe it is your fault – were you really foolish enough to believe Women’s Gymnastics, etc. broadcast rights were a significant part of the $10 Million/year contract?
UFs is not an unusually high amount for a media contract, varying with what is included (apparel, coaches shows, coaches personal appearances, etc. can be included or they can be kept separate).
But we don’t need to "move the needle" as you say. We didn’t have to. The SEC is as of right now, the best athletic conference in the country.This is apparently true – you didn’t need to move the needle, you just needed to change the topic from economics and change to the previous status – it doesn’t take a lot to maintain about the same status.
And you really want to compare other sports besides football? Really?Meh, why not…
“Baseball:” Wrestling, Men’s Gymnastics
“Women’s basketball” Men’s Hockey, Women’s Hockey
“Gymnastics” Women’s Volleyball. Men’s Volleyball
…if we keep going with your foolishness, we can include fencing and maybe even synchronized swimming, but obviously we REALLY don’t mind mentioning other sports.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
You’re looking at the LSU and Texas thing wrong though. They are getting their pick of the litter because they would be just fine without anybody from Texas. So they’ll offer all the big-names that they have on their target list, just like a lot of schools do in that area.
The $10 million a year is just for football and the like. You know, coaches TV shows, replay of the game on Sunday mornings … mostly that kind of stuff. The other stuff like shirts, logo’s and what not is another deal. And no, I never said it was bigger than most, or smaller.
As for the other sports, it’s not even close when comparing the SEC and the Big 10. The SEC has the advantage.
Editor at Alligator Army.
This is not a common definition... this isn't even an uncommon definition... this is more FlaGators made up sheiit.
They are getting their pick of the litter because they would be just fine without anybody from Texas.
This is sophistry.
This is not even close to the common definition of “Getting their pick of the litter” with or without the Texas limitation you inserted above (without the Texas reference, your comment Haas no relevance).
If you have to redefine common phrases for your statement to hold true, you aren’t making a true statement.
You could say LSU is recruiting doorknobs, end tables, grass, blue, Chevy, etc. provided you redefine what these terms mean…
The $10 million a year is just for football and the like. You know, coaches TV shows, replay of the game on Sunday mornings … mostly that kind of stuff. The other stuff like shirts, logo’s and what not is another deal.This is at least a false representation – ie, a lie. It includes far more than football.
http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2008/07/14/daily4.html
At no point did i claim it included merchandise.
If you have to make stuff up for your comment to be relevant, you don’t have a relevant comment.
As noted above, your list was matched 2 for 1 and I left a lot in reserve – when you can double it on more than just “Your word” the discussion can be reopened.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Since 2002
35 recruits have gotten both LSU and Texas offers. 22 of those went to Texas. While that doesn’t appear very good for LSU percentage-wise, that’s actually the best that any of school has done against Texas.
Vincent Young Texas
Cameron Vaughn LSU
Chase Pittman Texas
Albert Hardy Texas
Quandre Diggs Texas
Curtis Riser Texas
David Jenkins LSU
Jermauria Rasco LSU
Tim Washington LSU
Kirston Pittman LSU
Cedric Dockery Texas
Christian Scott Texas
Jacob Hester LSU
Vadal Alexander LSU
Nathan Jones Texas
Chris Ogbonnaya Texas
Adam Ulatoski Texas
George Walker Texas
Myron Hardy Texas
Torshiro Davis Texas
Bobby Tatum Texas
DeMarco Cobbs Texas
Nic Redwine Texas
Sedrick Flowers Texas
Ryan Perrilloux LSU
Cedric Reed Texas
Leroy Scott Texas
Mike Davis Texas
Craig Loston LSU
R.J. Jackson LSU
Ishie Oduegwu Texas
Russell Shepard LSU
Kheeston Randall Texas
Ciron Black LSU
Chancey Aghayere LSU
This is a false representation.
that’s actually the best that any of school has done against Texas.
…which means LSU is not getting the pick of the litter from Texas, unless you redefine what “Pick of the litter” means.
I assume this is a limited list (since there is probably at least 1 recruit who picked neither).
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
You’re failing to see the point.
While that doesn’t appear very good for LSU percentage-wise, that’s actually the best that any of school has done against Texas.
Read that again if you will.
That’s the point trying to be made by the post.
Editor at Alligator Army.
I did read your comment again, and even quoted it.
LSU does above-average in Texas. They get their pick of the litter if they choose to do so.
This is your comment. This is obviously false.
You’re failing to see the point.
While that doesn’t appear very good for LSU percentage-wise, that’s actually the best that any of school has done against Texas.
Read that again if you will.
That’s the point trying to be made by the post.I an well aware of your point – you had another line of sheit shown for what it iwas, and now wish to change the definition of common phrases.
These comments by others do not support your claim.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
So by saying that LSU does above-average in Texas … for an out of state school … which was in the context of the point…
You don’t get it yet?
Editor at Alligator Army.
This is false
So by saying that LSU does above-average in Texas … for an out of state school … which was in the context of the point…
This is a lie.
You claimed
LSU does above-average in Texas. They get their pick of the litter if they choose to do so.Obviously this is a lie.
If you have to rephrase your original comment to keep it valid, then your original comment wasn’t valid.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
The only school that gets the "pick of the litter" from Texas is Texas
In terms of recruits with a Texas offer, LSU has done the least badly with a 37% winning percentage (13-22), beating out USC (14-26, 35%), FSU (7-15, 32%), Georgia (3-8, 27%), and Oklahoma (25-95, 21%). I’m not sure which of you this helps.
Just to give an example of the relative popularity of Texas and Texas A&M, only 12 of the 131 recruits with offers from both schools chose A&M over Texas.
Provelt- That list is limited to recruits that picked either LSU or Texas. 28 other recruits had offers from both schools but chose neither:
Eric Winston Miami (FL)
DaBryan Blanton Oklahoma
Mario Edwards Florida State
Kendall Kelly Alabama
Jonas Mouton Michigan
Brodney Pool Oklahoma
Marvin Byrdsong Mississippi State
John David Booty Southern Cal
Rufus Alexander Oklahoma
Matthew Hegarty Notre Dame
Dexter Pratt Oklahoma State
Trovon Reed Auburn
D.J. Humphries Florida
Chris Smith Texas A&M
Lache Seastrunk Oregon
Corey Nelson Oklahoma
Spencer Drango Baylor
Jarvis Jones Southern Cal
Patrick Turner Southern Cal
Jamarkus McFarland Oklahoma
Michael Grant Arkansas
Ahmad Dixon Baylor
Aaron Green Nebraska
Reginald Youngblood Miami (FL)
Dajleon Farr Miami (FL)
Fred Rouse Florida State
Martellus Bennett Texas A&M
Lynn Katoa Colorado
by nuftw on Feb 10, 2012 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the effort nuftw
Provelt- That list is limited to recruits that picked either LSU or Texas. 28 other recruits had offers from both schools but chose neither:
I am actually surprised it is that high.
So, out of 63 Texas recruits with offers from UT and LSU:
22 went to UT (about 1/3)
13 went to LSU (about 1/5)
28 went elsewhere (about 4/9)
…no wonder FlaGators is desperately attempting to redefine common terms ans rephrase his claim…
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
no wonder FlaGators is desperately attempting to redefine common terms ans rephrase his claim…
I haven’t changed a thing. And the numbers posted back up my claim precisely.
Editor at Alligator Army.
This is a lie
I haven’t changed a thing. And the numbers posted back up my claim precisely.
Your claim LSU gets the pick of the litter from Texas is a lie, unless you redefine the parameters of your original comment, or redefine “Pick of the litter”
If you have to redefine common terns for your assertions to be valid, your assertions aren’t valid.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
if the numbers back up your claim then the claim was poorly worded.
words matter. The level of clarity of a claim or argument is essential to debate and making logical conclusions. When you find youself saying “same thing” or “that’s what I meant” you might want to simply re-post your original comment to clarify the conditions to avoid lengthy he-said, she-said comment chains.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Feb 13, 2012 8:05 AM CST up reply actions
College baseball what's that?
I kid, but I’ve come to expect teams that can play/practice year round etc have a better shot than northern teams.
College Baseball is big in: the south, Texas, AZ and California. Is live in Southern California so when baseball season comes around theres a lot of coverage of all the cal states(fullerton, long beach, fresno, etc) USC etc. While we “care” about baseball in the B1G we don’t CARE about baseball.
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by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 9, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Same goes for hockey. But I’m guessing there are more states that play or care about baseball, than hockey. Especially when it comes with a shot at winning in college.
Editor at Alligator Army.
hey hey hey
don’t count out North Alabama
Hockey Capital of the South SON!
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
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by Wallacewade04 on Feb 9, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
haha that is true
but I’m talking more about the region
the lone Division 1 hockey program in the deep south belongs to University of Huntsville 2 time Div. II champs and what not
Huntsville has Bama kid growing up playing hockey – bad hockey but hockey haha
BIRMINGHAM BULLS FOR LIFE!

People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
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by Wallacewade04 on Feb 9, 2012 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
Lot’s of minor league hockey (ECHL … ) and what not throughout the Southeast.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Is it Hunstville that has D1 hockey?
Am I crazy? I seem to remember the Badgers playing them last season.
I was talking about North Alabama the region
basically Huntsville
sorry for the confusion interwebz!
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
Stache pic upgraded to Championship mode
by Wallacewade04 on Feb 9, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
I understood you just fine.
Was just confirming who the school was but you already did above. When they played the Badgers I was pretty surprised they had D1 hockey because even in the North D1 hockey is somewhat of a niche thing even in the B1G.
they have to fight to keep their head above water
and keep their team playing
they were almost reduced to club level
it’s an issue along with UAB wanting a new stadium because both schools fall under the U Alabama umbrella and our board of trustees stonewall the other schools
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
Stache pic upgraded to Championship mode
by Wallacewade04 on Feb 9, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
According to the college hockey rumor-mill
UAH isn’t expected to have DI hockey after this year. The Chargers can’t find a conference that will accept them as a member since the CHA-Men folded.
I would expect that.
most of the hockey talent lies in the north, most baseball talent is in the south.
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by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 9, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
in other news
water is wet and michigan sucks.
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by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 9, 2012 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I am kind of annoyed the SEC grabbed Mizzou actually
Mizzou seemed like a good candidate for a possible 14 or 16 team B1G in the future. They fit geographically, have obvious rivalries and it’s a fairly populous state compared to the other fly-over states in the Big XII.
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude
They are also a AAU member school. Which apparently is a big deal to the Big 10.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Nebraska laughs in your face!
Those that complain that Inception was confusing have never seen Videodrome.
I know they aren’t in it anymore. They were for a long time though. Up until the Big 10 invite and what not. I remember reading articles about some “dealings” or whatever that went down.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Their membership in the AAU was revoked after joining the B1G.
No less amusing, though.
Those that complain that Inception was confusing have never seen Videodrome.
I'm much happier with Nebraska
Football is king, and Nebraska is way better than Mizzou.
Yeah, Mizzou would have rivalries built in with Illinois and Iowa, but its still Meh.
I highly doubt Mizzou will make a dent in the SEC
by LincolnParkWildcat on Feb 8, 2012 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
I highly doubt Mizzou will make a dent in the SEC
They aren’t expected to nor is it wanted.
Think about it. Why would the SEC add a team (or teams) that would beat up on the teams they currently have, when National Championships aren’t lacking? The goal of expansion in any shape or form, is to increase the footprint of the conference without hurting on field play. The SEC did that exactly how they were supposed to.
You don’t add teams so they can beat the Alabama’s, Florida’s, Georgia’s, LSU’s and Tennessee’s (all teams that have good histories) … you add teams who don’t throw a kink in the wheels that are already in motion.
They added two programs in A&M and Mizzou, who can hang with the big-boys but not beat them consistently, while adding major television markets in Dallas, Houston and St. Louis.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Have fun with the St. Louis and Kansas City TV markets
We didn’t want either of them.
Also, im not sure adding those markets would even matter for the SEC due to CBS being a national channel. I could be wrong.
Still, getting several texas cities in your conference tv footprint is huge.
Hey, if you guys could add Texas, would you?
by LincolnParkWildcat on Feb 9, 2012 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
We didn't want those markets?
We already have them…..Illinois is very strong in St. Louis, and I’m fairly certain Nebraska does well throughout Mizzou….
by Chadnudj on Feb 9, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Good luck with that one...
I highly doubt Mizzou will make a dent in the SEC
They aren’t expected to nor is it wanted.
…so you are claiming the SEC is adding suckie teams in route to long term success?
Good luck making that one sound credible.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Never said they were “suckie.”
All I’m saying is you don’t want to add teams that are going to by 1-2 in the country if you don’t have to. If the goal is more eyes watching your product and that product is the best, all you do is add teams that have “a” chance, not “the” chance.
Editor at Alligator Army.
If the goal is to get 'more eyes watching the product'
a statement which I agree with, by the way…then how is what Slive is doing better than what Delany is, long term? With a network dedicated to nothing but your product, you can beam B1G propaganda into 10’s if not 100’s of millions of homes at once, and it’s all B1G, all the time.
And as to the St. Louis market, the B1G has a very solid footing here. We’re almost equidistant between Springfield and Chambana, and the press coverage is split almost down the middle. I don’t think Mizzou being in the SEC as opposed to the Big 12-2 will move the needle much.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
I think that Delany and Slive are probably the two best conference commissioners there are. I also think you could say that there are a couple of things that each have done poorly as well.
The guy in the Pac-12 isn’t bad either. But let’s see how the Pac-12 Championship Game and the other things work out first.
Oh I’m sure that St Louis, being a big city in the mid-west has fans (read: eyes) from all area’s up there. All that adding St. Louis means to me, is now the SEC Network (that is on the local channels) will be broadcasted in St. Louis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEC_Network
I’m not saying it wasn’t before, but I think that a few more people will watch it now to see how Mizzou (whether they’re fans of Mizzou or not) will do in the SEC.
Editor at Alligator Army.
This is false.
I think that Delany and Slive are probably the two best conference commissioners there are.
Silve sold the conference rights for a bag of magical beans.
He was number chasing – in this case, an average of $20 Million per year which required too long a time span.
Silve sold too much… he could haves held back a few rights to keep a conference network option viable without hitting the broadcast revenue appreciably
…for too long… the average per year isn’t all that great when you look at the time span
…for too little. the SEC rights were worth much, much more than Silve got.
You can make a strong argument for Delany and Scott.
But let’s see how the Pac-12 Championship Game and the other things work out first.Scott already hit a huge television contract and kept 1st selection of the NCAAF games. The CCG and network are just the cherry on top.
All that adding St. Louis means to me, is now the SEC Network (that is on the local channels) will be broadcasted in St. Louis.The SEC Network is not a network by most common definitions of the work – it is just a package of games marketed to existing networks.
If 800K is a major addition, it is a very tiny network of nominal significance.
No amount of exaggeration and lies can make 800K a major addition to a major network.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
This is false.
Your claim…
You don’t add teams so they can beat the Alabama’s, Florida’s, Georgia’s, LSU’s and Tennessee’s (all teams that have good histories) … you add teams who don’t throw a kink in the wheels that are already in motion.A team that doesn’t threaten the conference top 1/3 is considered a ’Suckie" team in most conferences.
No amount of redefinition will chance this.
If the goal is more eyes watching your product and that product is the best, all you do is add teams that have "a" chance, not "the" chance.This is false.
Good teams with large following attract viewers. Pure “Brand” teams like Nebraska, Oklahoma, etc. attract viewers because the energize opposing fan bases and attract the general NCAA audience.
“Suckie” teams that don’t compete at the top are not the candidates to add viewers.
This isn’t ’Brave New World" where repeating a lie 10,800 times will make it an accepted truth.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
The problem wasn't that there was anything wrong with Missouri or there was a numbers limit...
…the problem with Missouri was that they were about average with the existing membership in terms of revenue. They might be a bit below average when you dig deeper into the revenue sources (such as having the BTN carried on expanded basic in much of the state).
The difficulty in economically driven growth is that with each addition above average, the shared revenue increases and the bar is raised for the next candidate. Very quickly you run out of candidates.
The B1G may be close to running out of candidates. With no limits on the number of programs that could be added, the B1G is only known to have ended with interest in:
Nebraska (invited)
Notre Dame (always) when they do join a conference, will they have dropped too far to garner B1G interest?
Texas (Gee e-mails) the Horns network complicates matters
TA&M (Gee e-mails) wanted to go elsewhere
Missouri was the largest interested program known to end up under the bar.
I believe it safe to assume that for whatever reasons, there was no interest in the mid majors, Big East, or the rest of the Big 12. We didn’t look at the PAC (geography has its limits).
When we looked at the ACC in terms of state population, campus size, other majors in the state, etc. there just wasn’t many candidates – perhaps FSU or Miami (but probably not both) and maybe VT.
We didn’t look closely at the SEC because the shared revenue differential isn’t enough (yet) but they would have some good candidates:
Tennessee combination of brand and size
LSU more on brand than size
Alabama primarily brand
Florida
Georgia
Even if you discard “Cultural” issues (such as AAU affiliation), the list of valid candidates is likely under a dozen – it is hard to reach SuperConference size if everyone is looking at the same few candidates.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I have a theory
That if ND ever decides to let go of their Big Ten hate and join the conference that makes the most sense for them.
If that happens I think Delany steals Mizzou from the SEC to be the 14th team. How big of a coup would that be? ND plus the SEC with egg on its face. That sends a message.
I don't buy into the even number theories of expansion...
The result is that the conference would not invite a program which made financial sense because it would result in an odd number, or that a program that didn’t make financial sense would be added to make an even number.
With all of the issues involved in conference expansion, an unbalanced number of teams in the divisions isn’t a factor.
You can add that Missouri and the other Little dogs of the Big 12 were chasing every lead when they thought the Big 12 was about to implode.
We have also seen some legalities for trying to attract programs rather than programs requesting consideration – easy enough to deny, but still a consideration.
I also don’t buy into conference expansion being viewed as a competition by the smarter administrators.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Slive's Sloppy Seconds?
As a Nebraska fan, Mizzou always felt like a B1G school to me, even in the Big 8 days. SEC was a no-brainer for them, but I wouldn’t rule them out if the BIG ultimately goes to 14 or 16.
Delaney can tell himself “I coulda had them first” and Mizzou can say “We were thinking of you the whole time… and we faked every orgasm.”
Same screen name since AOL- 'cause like many Nebraska fans, I'm stuck in the '90s.
by crowe1856 on Feb 9, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Let's be honest
when it comes to expansion to 16 teams, the entire purpose it to either have enough content to provide enough of a ratings draw for a sports network or control the playoff landscape. With the Delaney-Scott alliance, the playoff picture is not going to happen and which other conferences have a network with enough content and the prospects to get the needed market pull to get on basic cable?
Expansion wasn’t and isn’t about “recruiting” pipelines. It’s about creating higher rated media content to print money. The SEC has expanded to allow ESPN and CBS to print money for themselves in order to get a cut…which might not significantly increase the per school payout by a significant margin. The B1G adding Nebraska did increase the per school payout by a large margin…as will the B1G-PAC alliance.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Feb 9, 2012 8:03 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Spoken like a student of Delany. +1
Delany has been openly critical of expansion decisions in other conferences.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Or just read Frank the Tank's blog
The man has done a remarkable job of analyzing the expansion issues and understanding where the profitability comes in.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Feb 10, 2012 7:54 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Frank hits on some items...
…but Frank can’t keep his own desires separate from his projections.
The difficult part of critical thinking isn’t just basing your conclusions on the evidence – it is removing your personal biases and re-evaluating your conclusions as new information becomes known.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I totally agree that the B1G has done it right
Your point about geography and culture of a conference to me is what makesfor logical criteria. Every school in the B1G has that in common. Ok, NW is a little different (but lest we forget they are a founding member – bring back U of Chicago? what?) Notre Dame has the geography, but THEIR ELITIST CULTURE IS NOT WELCOME HERE. I think that in about five to ten years they are mostly irrelevant in football (aside from a rich history pre 1990) and they come begging to Big Jim. “Oh, NOW you want to join?, Sorry we’re full.” Sorry Domers, you’ve earned your image…
Undue Purversity
If all hell breaks loose in CFB, and we extend an invite to TSISB
They will think that we are doing them a favor.
Forget them.
by LincolnParkWildcat on Feb 9, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
TSISB ?
That school in South Bend? I like that, and I like your thinking! My comment on NW was in no way a bash, btw.
Undue Purversity
Not taken as a bash.
Those of us who root for Northwestern realize we’re different from the rest of the B1G (hell, different from most of the rest of the NCAA), and frankly like the team for those differences.
Not saying the way Northwestern does things is better, by the way…..but I do appreciate them keeping up their academic standards for athletes, having a history of never having any major NCAA violations in any sport, competing relatively respectably (lately at least) against teams with much more in terms of resources, etc.
Plus, you forget Northwestern’s biggest value to the conference — a Chicago-accessible Big Ten venue. At minimum, Northwestern’s presence in Evanston allows fans of other Big Ten teams living in Chicago to see their team once every other year (in football, for the most part) or every year (in basketball, again for the most part). Indeed, Northwestern was actually (from reports) fought over as a division partner during the B1G division split, with MSU/Michigan/Iowa pushing to have Northwestern in order to have access to the Chicago-market/their Chicago-based alumni.
its the school that should not be named - voldemort university
Its also like how OSU fans call Michigan TSUN: that school up north. Fitz calls Illinois “that school down south”
by LincolnParkWildcat on Feb 9, 2012 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
yep
the pumpkinheads of shampoo-banana
by LincolnParkWildcat on Feb 9, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
How lucky is the B1G?
I completely forgot about the B1g/Pac12 agreement in all of this. Delany has put his conference in the most sustainable position possible, while the rest of college football sways in the wind and starts doing strange things to stay relevant, like adding Memphis as a football member.
Bucky's 5th Quarter The best site for Badger news on the web!
If it made sense, it wouldn't be the BCS.
Delany's accomplishments look better the further back you go.
He followed a plan – built the conference up internally (attendance, etc.) then increased the outside revenue sources.
Wiki has a nice topical overview, but it still falls short.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
I still can't get over his whiny 2007 e-mail haha
I mean that looked BAD
People who live in glass houses should not hang out with Charles Barkley.
Stache pic upgraded to Championship mode
Delaney can't wear skinny jeans 'cuz his knots don't fit
I’ll always think it was a dick move to yank Paterno’s name from the trophy, but I have respect for Delaney’s steadfast guarding and expansion of the conference brand, stupid division names notwithstanding. There is a certain level of prestige and standards associated with the conference, and I feel he does a good job of babysitting that image.
Consider this my official declaration of non-support of child molestation.
but East and West is soooo early-mid 90's hip-hop.
HELP IS ON THE WAY
~Banned at ATO since June 3rd, 2011, 2ish PM PST
by SouthBayBuckeye on Feb 9, 2012 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
stupid division names notwithstanding
I acknowledged that terrible idea. I still have no idea which one Penn State is in.
Consider this my official declaration of non-support of child molestation.
Yeah, didn’t mean to put the “Ummm” part in there. Was thinking of something else and forgot to delete that part. My bad.
Editor at Alligator Army.
The SEC really didn't add anything
Compare the new SEC:
The University of Alabama $123,910,432
University of Florida $123,008,257
Louisiana State University and Agricultural & Mechanical College $106,421,671
Auburn University $103,982,441
The University of Tennessee $102,495,204
University of Georgia $92,341,067
University of Arkansas $91,768,113
University of Kentucky $84,878,315
University of South Carolina-Columbia $83,704,667
Texas A & M University-College Station $74,944,301
University of Missouri-Columbia $59,005,954
Vanderbilt University $55,632,098
Mississippi State University $49,893,731
University of Mississippi Main Campus $48,916,161
to the new Big Ten:
Ohio State University-Main Campus $131,815,819
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor $122,486,490
Pennsylvania State University-Main Campus $116,118,026
University of Wisconsin-Madison $93,594,766
University of Iowa $92,903,555
University of Nebraska-Lincoln $83,679,756
Michigan State University $80,963,182
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities $78,924,683
Indiana University-Bloomington $70,172,641
Purdue University-Main Campus $66,066,303
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign $57,539,367
Northwestern University $56,214,293
A&M and Mizzou are the 11th and 12th teams in the SEC in terms of overall athletic revenue, while Nebraka is 6th in the Big Ten. A&M and Mizzou actually bring the SEC down. Of course, all three teams will jump in revenue in their new conferences because the Big 12 TV deal was terrible, but I don’t think it’s a reach to say that Nebraska was the bigger addition.
I’d also say that A&M and Mizzou are more of a reach geographically than Nebraska. Nebraska may even match Big Ten culture quite a bit better than the Big 12, while Mizzou would rather be in the Big Ten than the SEC and A&M only left the Big 12 because they couldn’t stand being in Texas’ shadow.
Crossroads of the Interwebz - my blog
Of course Nebraska was the bigger addition. As Nebraska is the flagship school in, yep, you guessed it, the state of Nebraska.
A&M however, is No. 2 in Texas. Missouri on the other hand, while No. 1 in Missouri, isn’t breaking population or alumni records.
Editor at Alligator Army.
I don't see what your point is
Why does it matter what position a school has within a state? Either Mississippi State or Ole Miss are the #1 school in Mississippi (I’m not going to say State just based on these numbers), but they aren’t going to get an invite from any other conference.
My point isn’t just that Nebraska was the better addition, it was that it made the Big Ten conference better. Mizzou and A&M don’t make the SEC better, and it’s debatable whether the SEC even breaks even on adding them. I don’t even know if A&M is the #2 team in Texas; the OU athletic department doesn’t make $100M a year just on people from Oklahoma, a state that has a lower population than the Metro area of Dallas.
Crossroads of the Interwebz - my blog
Because more often than not, the bigger the school is in said state, the bigger the fanbase is. Alumni, money, average fan caring … etc.
Each state has a bigger school (that fits the description above) whether the other school(s) likes to admit it or not.
Say Florida for example. The Gators are the bigger school than FSU or Miami because they’ve had football longer, have more alumni that donate…etc.
In Texas, the Longhorns are the undisputed king. A&M is probably 2nd. What other college or universities are in Mizzou that are bigger than them?
And don’t kid yourself. Oklahoma’s total revenue probably isn’t even close to $100 million. Let alone from the state of Texas.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Oklahoma
Oklahoma’s total revenue is $104 million. Don’t try to push BS past me, I have tables of this stuff for each conference because I find it interesting and have too much time on my hands.
I’m going to lay it down for you: being the biggest school in the state doesn’t matter. Syracuse is the biggest school in the state of New York, but everyone knows the New York market belongs to Penn State and Notre Dame. Mizzou being the biggest school in Missouri counts for a little, but not much since they still actually split the market with Kansas and Illinois. And so on and so forth. The SEC expanded purely for the sake of expanding; it was a bad move.
Crossroads of the Interwebz - my blog
Football and basketball revenue
Rather than whole-department revenue, as I cited. You can find those numbers on the web site I posted as well. I didn’t put football revenue alone, since I’m not sure about how schools count revenue like from the Big Ten Network (it may be uncategorized). If it’s uncategorized, then the football and basketball numbers are poor represenations of athletic revenue because I think we can all agree that 95% of the money that the BTN makes is from football and basketball.
Crossroads of the Interwebz - my blog
by lonewolf371 on Feb 11, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Profit
Also, I’ll say that I think profit is a horrible number to judge college finances on. If the department is making a profit, then something is going on wrong and they should expand the number of sports they fund or give the money back to the university. Any college program that’s making a big profit is doing it wrong.
Crossroads of the Interwebz - my blog
by lonewolf371 on Feb 11, 2012 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
It’s still a business though. Also, Title IX makes it somewhat difficult to just add sports because you’re making a profit.
Athletic Associations do make a donation to their respective Universities. Obviously I can’t speak for other colleges and/or universities, but I do know that the Gators Athletic Association has given $60 million to the University of Florida since 1990.
Editor at Alligator Army.
That's just my opinion
I don’t think college athletics is a business. You may have to treat it as a business so that your athletic department doesn’t go under, but these institutions should not be making a profit off of sports.
Purdue and Michigan also donate money to their schools on the order of a couple million a year. It’s good to see that Florida is.
Crossroads of the Interwebz - my blog
by lonewolf371 on Feb 11, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, I tend to agree. You’re practically preaching to the choir about whether or not it’s a business. I tend to think that even in the pros it’s used as a cop-out or an excuse more often than it really should be.
I do think though, that it is okay to have a little change in reserve for an emergency.
FWIW, I think that Texas couldn’t spend their money fast enough. And teams like Oregon (Phil Knight), Okie State (T. Boone) and Maryland (Under Armor founder) … have mainly one person providing their entire budget, so I haven’t quite figured out those. I don’t know if that’s a good model or not to follow for athletics.
Editor at Alligator Army.
Nice try, but...
Title IX makes it somewhat difficult to just add sports because you’re making a profit.
If a program is making a notable profit, then it would be a very thin margin to be able to add 1 varsity squad but not 2.
Athletic Associations do make a donation to their respective UniversitiesI openly question the ethics of these donations.
The donations are made to the athletic program to benefit amateur athletes – if the boosters wanted their money to go to other university programs and scholarships, they would have donated to them directly.
Meanwhile, there is always openings within the athletic department – financial aid to support staffs (trainers, managers), better equipment, better coaching, facility expansion, etc.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Hence the inclusion of the word “somewhat.”
Those donations (I’m guessing, because UF’s does), probably go towards the Universities scholarship fund or something like that.
Apparently, only around 20% of the FBS athletic programs make such a donation yearly.
Editor at Alligator Army.
This is a false characterization
An event that is so marginal (such as having a regular surplus sufficient to fund 1 but not 2 additional varsity sports) that it almost never occurs is not a noteworthy factor.
An average of $4 Million/year (your quote fro UF) would be sufficient to add to the varsity sports offerings.
Please enter 4 tokens and try again.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
This is a FlaGator self contradiction.
Because more often than not, the bigger the school is in said state, the bigger the fanbase is.
The list you link to tends to discredit your claim – when you get past the top 5, the only way there is a strong correlation between state size and program revenue is if you redefine ’Correlation"
Self contradiction is a common result of sophistry, where comments the require a specific perspective to hold true are shown false when viewed from the broader, more relevant spectrum.
And don’t kid yourself. Oklahoma’s total revenue probably isn’t even close to $100 million.This is sophistry.
Citing the revenue from 1 sport does not equate to total revenue.
If you have to limit the spectrum for your comments to hold valid, you comments aren’t valid in the broader sense.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Oklahoma
Oh yeah, I forgot about the Oklahoma disagreement. FlaGators, if you want to see my source, check here and then click on “Revenues and Expenses,” a link that shows Oklahoma’s self-reported finances to the U.S. government. You’ll find that Oklahoma’s Grand Total Revenue is $104,338,843.
Crossroads of the Interwebz - my blog
by lonewolf371 on Feb 11, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
The link doesn’t work but I found it. Yeah, Oklahoma must have made a big jump in revenue.
Editor at Alligator Army.
My apologies
Glad you were able to find it though.
Crossroads of the Interwebz - my blog
by lonewolf371 on Feb 11, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
This is false.
Nebraska isn’t a good addition to the B1G because they are the flagship school in their state.
The population of Nebraska is less than half the population/program in the B1G footprint.
Nebraska’s value is that of a pure Brand – their ability to excite interest in opposing fan bases and the general NCAAF audience…in NCAAF economics, interest = revenue
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Those are athletic budget numbers, correct?
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Speaking of television numbers, eyes watching and what not: (Numbers are from Sep 1 to Nov 30)
https://twitter.com/#!/ChaddScott/status/167998486401396736
Editor at Alligator Army.
Wow, big numbers for SEC and BiG
And SEC really outpaces everyone. That really reinforces how good the TV deals are for the SEC and B1G, and how crappy they are for the Big 12 and Big East.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Which is why I don’t understand at all, how the Pac-12 got their TV deal. Nobody east of the Mississippi river gives a crap about Pac-12 anything.
Editor at Alligator Army.
And it's still a relative bargain for the networks
Think about the billions of dollars the NFL brings in. Networks are getting at least 5x the college football programming for less than a 1/5 of the price the NFL.
Well, they have some good teams
and you can’t discount the L.A. TV market and USC (and UCLA to a lesser extent), and San Francisco and Stanford. Phoenix, Seattle, Portland all have big markets and it could prove to be a boon, especially if he can get his channel on a basic sports tier package, like the B1G was able to do with DirecTV. And with the partnership that he agreed to with Delany and the B1G, he has a better than decent chance to get that, because he can offer intriguing BCS conference games right away, and all the BTN had to offer are tier 3 games to begin with.
Larry Scott is a smart guy, and I think he’s picking a good time to capitalize on the sentiment out on the west coast that they never get any attention because of the east coast media bias. Perception is reality for them, and I think that if he’s going to strike, the time is now.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Adding Denver didn't hurt either.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
Very true
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Don't forget about the start times
a true night game on the west coast starts at 10 or 11 pm eastern, which allows for more high value live programming and a reason to keep watching after the marquee Saturday night game.
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
by Pariahwulfen on Feb 12, 2012 8:26 AM CST up reply actions
It is only difficult to understand because you refuse to acknowledge...
Silve sold the conference rights for a bag of magical beans.He was number chasing – in this case, an average of $20 Million per year which required too long a time span.
Silve sold too much… he could haves held back a few rights to keep a conference network option viable without hitting the broadcast revenue appreciably
…for too long… the average per year isn’t all that great when you look at the time span
…for too little. the SEC rights were worth much, much more than Silve got.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
Unfortunately, Silve stuck the SEC with low performing revenue figures for over a decade more.
As noted, Silve sold his rights for too little given the length of time of his broadcast contracts.
Proud proponent of the 52 team Uber Conference
So the idea of Delany being the Garry Kasparov of college sports
Really brings out the SEC trolls, huh? Good to know.

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